Politics XXXVIII (A Nontotient)

[Bartimaeus]

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

 

If the goal is to "help" vets with PTSD  law enforcement is NOT the agency to reach out to. That would be the VA which is a complete and utter s--t show and always has been for as long as I've known about it. Not holding my breath because the US government is incapable of doing anything without totally f-----g it up. 

the problem is all too often the first point o' contact for veterans who need help is not the VA but law enforcement. yeah, VA should be informed, and they was, but making law enforcement aware were not wrong. is an overgeneralization, but in our experience, the people most in need o' help is the people least likely to seek or welcome such help. too often law enforcement knows before VA.

however, we agree 100% the emphasis shoulda' been on help as 'posed to identification o' potential threats, but again, the informational were the result o' an Army study and the army and dhs were more concerned with threats.

...

am also only vague recalling bits o' the language from the memo 'cause were a non-issue for us-- were not a Constitutional issue. if there had been special instructions, we sure as heck woulda' been reading and could likely recite it back to you verbatim.

10 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I vaguely remember having to sit through safety briefs on gangs and right wing groups infiltrating the military with more emphasis on the right wing groups. This was all before Obama as I got out in December of 08.

after timothy mcveigh, the military had a collective fit o' apoplexy. media painted mcveigh as a second amendment nut with interpersonal issues and a gambling problem, all which were accurate, but were hardly the full story. mcveigh were awarded a bronze star, but he also washed out o' his attempt to make it as a green beret. while mcveigh were not religious, a major motivation for the bombing were waco. mcveigh didn't belong to aryan brotherhood or similar, but he quoted white supremacist authors in his manifesto. ez labels o' mcveigh were elusive other than recognition he were  young and disaffected... and a veteran. 

post mcveigh, aggressive tracking programs were considered and all kinda educational efforts were adopted in an attempt to address extremism in the military.  the military had known for a long time they had a white supremacist issue, but it were the kinda thing they tried to ignore... and as hard as it may be to believe, the military has always been a decade or two ahead o' most o' the US when it comes to embracing reform based on race.

am also having to give the military credit that even post 9/11 their focus appeared to be domestic grown far-right extremism. save for 2001 and 2015, the domestic far right extremists has been the most serious and lethal threat... though 2001 in particular is one helluva an exception. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"ps special instructions is a ridiculous way to reference. were no direction to action per se. were informational and offered recommendations, but nothing approaching instructions or directives 'cause such woulda' required an act o' Congress or the like in any event. "

 

Oh, come on. When the president  'informs and recommends' something you damn straight the agencies are gonna likely follow it. But, I get it, you want to hide behind semantics just like a typical Trumptard and SJW Nazi. You have lots in common with PM Blackface.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Volourn

[Gromnir]

21 minutes ago, Volourn said:

 

 

Oh, come on. When the president  'informs and recommends' something you damn straight the agencies are gonna likely follow it. 

no, they don't. thank goodness. is no studies on the ingestion or injection o' disinfectants in spite o' fact trump said the health folks would be looking into it. is nice to know some levels o' stoopid is just ignored even by those closest to trump.

regardless, this is the US and not kanada. the US President has little authority over the hazard county sheriff's department, or the milpitas city police department. if President releases training or hiring guidelines tomorrow for local police departments, almost zero would adopt and none would adopt immediate. would need be state and local and union deliberations to make such changes and absolute nobody would implement changes just 'cause President said so 'cause o' numerous legal hurdles if nothing else. 

the President is not a pm and we got a Constitution which specific forbids the President from doing what you suggest.

and again, there were no specific call for action. were informational.  

@Malcador

best part o' fox content is reading fox viewer comments following stories and interviews-- is a window into an alternate reality.

wallace did a good job o' posing challenging questions while not complete shutting trump down by pushing too far for the President to stomach. 

is a couple questions we thought were noteworthy not asked, but am not gonna quibble.

we will give trump credit for the courage, if not the wisdom, o' doing the interview.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

the military had known for a long time they had a white supremacist issue, but it were the kinda thing they tried to ignore... and as hard as it may be to believe, the military has always been a decade or two ahead o' most o' the US when it comes to embracing reform based on race.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I really don't know about this one. I can only speak for my own experience in the branch I was in. But I never saw, nor heard of ANYTHING like that. Shady was a dark green Marine. His experience may have been very different from mine. But from what I saw; it would not be correct to call the Marine Corps a true meritocracy, but it was pretty close. Promotions were blind up to Sergeant. You made the cutting score or you didn't. Your MOS proficiency, conduct, rifle marksmanship, and physical fitness were the only things anyone gave a damn about. Take care of those four things and everything else took care of itself. No one cared if you were light green, medium green, or dark green. Run fast, shoot straight, do your job well. You will go far. 

[Gromnir]

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/

“Historically, this has been a problem for the military,” she said in an interview. “We’ve been pushing the Defense Department to take this issue more seriously since 1986. There are certain parts of the white power movement that value military experience and are often recruiting there.”

white supremacists active recruiting w/i the military is not a new thing. 

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Roman Lives Matter.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, KaineParker said:

Roman Lives Matter.

 HA! Only if you have three names. Two names or fewer and your life didn't mean a damn thing!

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I vaguely remember having to sit through safety briefs on gangs and right wing groups infiltrating the military with more emphasis on the right wing groups. This was all before Obama as I got out in December of 08.

I watched an interesting documentary on this recently from the late 1990's to about 2005 there were some people in the USA military that were indeed selling weapons to right wing groups that they ideologically supported. The FBI and ATF infiltrated these groups and there  were massive arrests. Nowadays right groups can get most military weapons outside the US military 

There is always going to be small numbers of people in the US military with right wing sympathies, the same thing happened during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where there  were gang members from known Hispanic  gangs who did 1 tour and then left the military and returned to the gangs with military skills and training ...but again its a small number

But if you look at most serious right wing or these militia groups many of there members were in the military but I dont think its  a huge number. I found 1 link that discusses this. And finally some people in the military may have some right wing views but they wont betray there country by selling illegal weapons but they do exist in reality 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/inside-u-s-military-s-battle-white-supremacy-far-right-ncna1010221

[Darkpriest]

This ought to be interesting. 

https://www.statista.com/chart/22256/biggest-economies-in-the-world-timeline/

So countries and regions with clear cultural identity and homogeneus population are growing stronger, while 'diverse' pipe dreams are becoming weaker and less relevant. 

 

[213374U]

True, if you disregard the fact that there's more than 100 different ethnic groups in Russia, and over 50 in China -- millions of people. India is literally, literally the most diverse country on earth, being home to thousands of ethnic groups and tribes with hundreds of languages. Compared to that, the US is a quaint little white ethnostate.

 

 

Really, the convulsive decline of the West is just late-stage capitalism. No doubt we'll continue to see efforts to blame its failure on whatever, much like apparatchiks blamed the failure of communism on "saboteurs and anti-social elements". Doesn't change the facts none.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, 213374U said:

True, if you disregard the fact that there's more than 100 different ethnic groups in Russia, and over 50 in China -- millions of people. India is literally, literally the most diverse country on earth, being home to thousands of ethnic groups and tribes with hundreds of languages. Compared to that, the US is a quaint little white ethnostate.

 

 

Really, the convulsive decline of the West is just late-stage capitalism. No doubt we'll continue to see efforts to blame its failure on whatever, much like apparatchiks blamed the failure of communism on "saboteurs and anti-social elements". Doesn't change the facts none.

Good post except for the spurious and exaggerated decline of the "West " .....how exactly has Western countries failed,  just name  one example that is actually relevant to the term failure?

And also who exactly will be replacing the West  based on what you believe are the Wests principle systemic failures, in other words is it fact that the West are Democracies, have Constitutions, respect human rights, freedom of speech, independent courts, accountable governments and the free market drive the economy

I have worked extensively in Africa and the ME and I have seen counties where people live in terrible poverty, have no economic future and have governments that prefer to enrich themselves over there citizens ....and the primary reason for this is these governments dont follow the core points that most countries follow. ...so it boggles my mind to think you are suggesting this will lead to the decline of The West 

Of course the West is not in decline unless you can tell me what government  models are better......like China and Russia.....yeah good choices 

Finally when we use the word " The West " it creates the wrong impression of what works for sustainable and successful  governments. Only countries that follow almost identical core principles are worth comparing if you seriously want to live there but they not referred to as The West like Japan, Vietnam or South Korea 

No country is perfect, including Western countries but there issues can be addressed and then mitigated 

 

  

Edited July 20, 2020 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

This ought to be interesting. 

https://www.statista.com/chart/22256/biggest-economies-in-the-world-timeline/

So countries and regions with clear cultural identity and homogeneus population are growing stronger, while 'diverse' pipe dreams are becoming weaker and less relevant. 

 

Dark I am enjoying your posts but I dont know anything about you, if you dont mind sharing what are your political views, ideological views ....just general stuff so I understand what you believe and of course only share what you feel is relevant 

This article is not representative of what defines real sustainable countries, GDP is one important metric but it definitely doesn't tell the real story of what makes a country relevant or worthy of admiring.  And more important it doesnt reveal the most important factor .....quality of life

Countries like China and Russia will never become more relevant  than places like Canada, USA or the EU . So no need to worry about this 

[Malcador]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/19/us/federal-judge-esther-salas-shooting-investigation/index.html

Guy goes to judge's house, shoots her husband and son, kills the latter and now is dead due to suicide.

 

[Gromnir]

some may be wondering what the hell trump were talking 'bout in the chris wallace interview when the President opined how the recent daca decision provided him authority to repeal and replace daca. if you weren't wondering, that is ok, 'cause Gromnir were curious. amused/disquieted? 

Scoop: Trump's license to skirt the law

ok, is no longer funny. is frightening. legit scary and not hyperbolic exaggeration-scary, but genuine 2020 tyranny level o' scary.

"Yoo told Axios that Chief Justice John Roberts' opinion "sets out a roadmap about how a president can use his prosecutorial discretion to under-enforce the law."

"The recourse would be if the next president tries to reverse what's set in motion.
"Suppose President Donald Trump decided to create a nationwide right to carry guns openly," Yoo writes in his National Review op-ed. "He could declare that he would not enforce federal firearms laws, and that a new 'Trump permit' would free any holder of state and local gun-control restrictions."

""Even if Trump knew that his scheme lacked legal authority, he could get away with it for the length of his presidency. And, moreover, even if courts declared the permit illegal, his successor would have to keep enforcing the program for another year or two.""

our hope, God help us, is mitch mcconnell gets wind o' this and let's trump know he won't support. recently mitch has broken with the wh on numerous covid-19 issues. if mitch and the senate republicans whose complicity has made trump excesses possible for the past three years remains silent, then only way to stop trump from implementing knowingly illegal executive orders is to have fed courts deliver injunctions until scotus reviews.

...

am not sure if the snippet we provide fully conveys the scope o' the extra-legal excess trump is considering. if trump is allowed to proceed as he is apparent planning, it would be a practical end to the democratic experiment in the US. the President would no longer need Congress to pass laws on healthcare or immigration 'cause he could use executive orders he knew were illegal and his belief is the Courts, based on yoo's reading o' daca, would support the President's malfeasance for the length o' his term +2 years.

is possible this is just a political stunt and trump will use to successful claim he repealed and replaced obamacare before the election, just as he claims to have built most o' the wall in spite o' fact there is less than 10 miles o' new wall. doesn't matter. turn back clock to 2017 and ask any republican US senator if they would support trump efforts to use executive orders to make Congress an incidental player on issues o' healthcare and immigration, as well as a host o' other contentious issues, and am betting you would hear universal rejection and condemnation o' the implausibility o' such a ridiculous hypothetical.

three years o' sustained attacks by trump on rule of law and common sense has us teetering on the edge o' genuine tyranny. +30% o' voters is cheering trump forward as he sets the Constitution ablaze. those same +30% would happily support an amendment which prohibited the burning o' a symbol o' the republic, the flag, but they is willing to stand by and cheer as trump reduces to ashes the Constitution.

Executive Order on Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Violence

what is wrong with us?

 

[Guard Dog]

59 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

some may be wondering what the hell trump were talking 'bout in the chris wallace interview when the President opined how the recent daca decision provided him authority to repeal and replace daca. if you weren't wondering, that is ok, 'cause Gromnir were curious. amused/disquieted? 

Scoop: Trump's license to skirt the law

ok, is no longer funny. is frightening. legit scary and not hyperbolic exaggeration-scary, but genuine 2020 tyranny level o' scary.

"Yoo told Axios that Chief Justice John Roberts' opinion "sets out a roadmap about how a president can use his prosecutorial discretion to under-enforce the law."

"The recourse would be if the next president tries to reverse what's set in motion.
"Suppose President Donald Trump decided to create a nationwide right to carry guns openly," Yoo writes in his National Review op-ed. "He could declare that he would not enforce federal firearms laws, and that a new 'Trump permit' would free any holder of state and local gun-control restrictions."

""Even if Trump knew that his scheme lacked legal authority, he could get away with it for the length of his presidency. And, moreover, even if courts declared the permit illegal, his successor would have to keep enforcing the program for another year or two.""

our hope, God help us, is mitch mcconnell gets wind o' this and let's trump know he won't support. recently mitch has broken with the wh on numerous covid-19 issues. if mitch and the senate republicans whose complicity has made trump excesses possible for the past three years remains silent, then only way to stop trump from implementing knowingly illegal executive orders is to have fed courts deliver injunctions until scotus reviews.

...

am not sure if the snippet we provide fully conveys the scope o' the extra-legal excess trump is considering. if trump is allowed to proceed as he is apparent planning, it would be a practical end to the democratic experiment in the US. the President would no longer need Congress to pass laws on healthcare or immigration 'cause he could use executive orders he knew were illegal and his belief is the Courts, based on yoo's reading o' daca, would support the President's malfeasance for the length o' his term +2 years.

is possible this is just a political stunt and trump will use to successful claim he repealed and replaced obamacare before the election, just as he claims to have built most o' the wall in spite o' fact there is less than 10 miles o' new wall. doesn't matter. turn back clock to 2017 and ask any republican US senator if they would support trump efforts to use executive orders to make Congress an incidental player on issues o' healthcare and immigration, as well as a host o' other contentious issues, and am betting you would hear universal rejection and condemnation o' the implausibility o' such a ridiculous hypothetical.

three years o' sustained attacks by trump on rule of law and common sense has us teetering on the edge o' genuine tyranny. +30% o' voters is cheering trump forward as he sets the Constitution ablaze. those same +30% would happily support an amendment which prohibited the burning o' a symbol o' the republic, the flag, but they is willing to stand by and cheer as trump reduces to ashes the Constitution.

Executive Order on Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Violence

what is wrong with us?

 

If you had been with me on Saturday night I think you would have gone out and gotten very drunk somewhere. These were not dumb men. They were not confederate flag waving Sean Hannity fans. Every last one of them has served in wartime and saw action in countries with real tyranny. Yet are somehow blind to it happening here in the land they thought they were protecting. This is purely my own opinion here. People fail to understand how terrible a terrible thing is if they like the outcome. They don't like Antifa and BLM, and protests. So sending in federal officers to shut them down is a positive outcome in their opinion. They refuse to see that even if the outcome is desirable the way it came about was terrible. To make matters worse one of the members of our post actually drove to Bunkerville in 2014 to join the protest in the Cliven Bundy mess. This is what boggles the mind the most. HE correctly calls the actions of the BLM as heavy handed big government tyranny all while arguing the abuse of the monuments EO in Oregon is justified. The only difference is who is ordering the abuse.

IMO they came from the same government.  Governments enable terrible people to do terrible things. Everyone is arguing about who gets to hold the rabid dog's leash. Maybe it's time we got rid of the rabid dog.

[HoonDing]

where are those 2nd amendment ppl now lmao

[Malcador]

If only McConnell were a man.

[Skazz]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

If only McConnell were a man.

If only he were raised by Splinter.

[Zoraptor]

10 hours ago, 213374U said:

True, if you disregard the fact that there's more than 100 different ethnic groups in Russia, and over 50 in China -- millions of people. India is literally, literally the most diverse country on earth, being home to thousands of ethnic groups and tribes with hundreds of languages. Compared to that, the US is a quaint little white ethnostate.

 

 

Really, the convulsive decline of the West is just late-stage capitalism. No doubt we'll continue to see efforts to blame its failure on whatever, much like apparatchiks blamed the failure of communism on "saboteurs and anti-social elements". Doesn't change the facts none.

Agreed on India, but China and Russia may have a lot of minorities but they both have a large 80%+ majority Han/ 'Russian' ethnicity which is proportionately larger than the 'white' 'ethnicity' in the US is.

I think this is the point where I typically wave my arms animatedly while saying there's little objective difference between a lot of ethnicities anyway and most are used as political conveniences for whatever progressive/ regressive agenda is being driven at the time.

[Gorth]

12 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Good post except for the spurious and exaggerated decline of the "West " .....how exactly has Western countries failed,  just name  one example that is actually relevant to the term failure?

Depends on how you define "West". Poland and Hungary both seems to have gotten tired of the whole democracy experiment and are heading full speed down the path of becoming totalitarian regimes (using Erdogans Turkey as a role model for how they want their countries run). Italy... looks like it's about to collapse under it's own corruption and inefficiency in governing. A dictatorial Berlusconi was the closest they got to a government not being replaced once a year since WW II. The UK.... The jury is still out. Lets see if it's still the UK 3 years from now (or just England+Wales+Ulster and then Scotland). Belgium is barely keeping together. A bit more social unrest and watch that space for all your daily news.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, HoonDing said:

where are those 2nd amendment ppl now lmao

they are cheering trump so loud they don't hear warnings from folks such as Gromnir. 

"always consider these kinda moves when used as a weapon pointed at something/somebody you cherish."

too many second amendment ppl ignore the danger inherent in giving near absolute authority to one person, a person who next election, or election after, may not share their viewpoint.

and am disagreeing with gd as usual. is not government which is a rabid dog. conspiracy 'bout deep state nonsense aside, the federal government is just an organizational scheme and +200 years o' history makes obvious the scheme may be used beneficial or malicious. mostly government grinds along unnoticed doing hundreds o' things unseen w/o any ill will to motivate it. attribute some kinda fundamental flaw to government is transparent shirking o' responsibility. trump, as a prime example, don't have an ideology. he is doing what he believes will resonate with his base. is Americans who is busted. we are more polarized than at any time since ww2, and that is saying a lot. compare gap between approval o' same and opposing party voters for each President since eisenhower. maybe a 30-45 point gap. trump is representing an +70 point gap and inching towards 80. not in living memory has Americans looked at government actions and been so complete divided 'bout whether government is doing right or wrong.  is Americans who has become increasingly rabid, both for and against, on every conceivable issue. 

if a dog is vicious and bites people, am betting gd would first look to the dog's owner to assign responsibility.  even if there is something fundamental wrong with the dog, gd would hold the owner of the beast responsible to change the animal's behaviour or to place limits on the potential for doggie harm. is cheap to blame the dog and ignore sins o' the owner, yes? you o' all people is blaming the dog 'cause o' the lack o' character o' the critter's owner?

if we don't reverse this trend, we deserve to get bit. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

17 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

you o' all people is blaming the dog 'cause o' the lack o' character o' the critter's twitters owner?

Improved!

 

Sorry, it was just such an obvious thing to substitute

[ShadySands]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:05 PM, Guard Dog said:

snip

In my particular unit everything was on the up and up but there were always stories and rumors of stuff going on elsewhere on base.  Some of it was even true.

Forgot how much I disliked the pro/con scores since they were so subjective. If your unit was too conservative with their grading then you could be screwed on your cutting score. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths. Then they broke his hand.