Coronavirus: Continuing Vigilance

[Guard Dog]

File this under the growing list of practical, reasonable, and fiscally sound ideas coming from the Trump Admin: Trump adviser suggests reopening economy by putting 'everybody in a space outfit'

[Bartimaeus]

I'd like to take this time to notify everyone that if you type ":p" with a lowercase "p", you get a "" instead of a "", which is what you get when you use an uppercase "P" in ":P". I think we can all agree that "" looks a hundred times better and more dignified than the weird emoji-like "".

I would also like you to know that I will be silently judging you if you continue to use "" after learning this.

[ShadySands]

What are your thoughts on man in business suit levitating?

I'm thinking of making that my go to as it seems to fit every occasion

 

and to be on topic

New York antibody study estimates 13.9% of residents have had the coronavirus, Gov. Cuomo says

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

What are your thoughts on man in business suit levitating?

 

...

am such a nerd 'cause we immediately thought o'...

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

13 hours ago, Hiro Protagonist said:

Well the science is compelling with splicing the virus, S proteins and things like HIV. The scientists and research heads find it unlikely that it was a natural jump from bats to humans. And it shows all the information that backs the research has been going on for years. Not one person has refuted the science presented - except for China.

I'm not going to watch a 54 minute video. Turns out I might listen to (most of) it while I do other things though. TLDR; the science is not all that compelling. The video is rather like the presentation of evidence for WMD in Iraq from old asterisks Cheney; you can make it seem compelling by removing every bit of equivocation or counter evidence. It still may have come from a lab, but it isn't anywhere near proven.

1) No full tracing of origin is to be expected. In the early stages you're looking only at data only from cases serious enough to have been treated in hospital for pneumonia, which make up a small number of covid19 cases. Non severe cases would be treated as if it were flu or the cold, ie stay home for a bit or tough it out, forget about it a week later. Since only a small proportion require hospitalisation you'd have the large majority of cases being silent ones making tracing extremely hard.

2) Assuming an animal origin bats are probably the ultimate source, but may not be the proximal source.

3) 100% gene sequence similarity may mean that it's under very strong selective pressure, ie the env protein and virus simply won't function properly with significant alterations. There's a reason we still share 50% of our genes with bananas, as an illustration.

4) Natural strains don't infect humans but it has the spike protein of SARS (1) which did, therefore... what? SARS did infect humans, it just had very low transmission rates. 'Natural' animal viruses most definitively do infect humans from time to time- if they want to leave out SARS because sinophobia there's also near relative MERS (ex camellids) or the less related SIV which seems to have crossed into humans at least 11 (!) times in the creation of HIV. Or Ebola/ Marburg. All of which are ssRNA viruses.

5) No, bat coronavirus having spike proteins that can infect humans does not mean there's no intermediate host full stop, it means there doesn't have to be an intermediate host.

6) Meta: isn't it nice of the Chinese to have left all these breadcrumbs, and in articles to journals like Nature or Science to boot.

7) Yes, amazingly scientists do build viruses out of bits of other viruses to test what they do and have done for rather a long time. It's even a suggested (approved now?) mechanism for gene therapy in humans.

cool) No, that does not mean that sarscov2 is artificial. Classic non sequitor, we show this and that, therefore you can draw a conclusion that does not actually follow the data gained from this or that. You've already admitted that SARS1 infected humans and working in mice != working in humans.

9) My god, they experimented on mice! And planned to on primates! In a research lab! I'm, uh, flabbergasted at this, er, revelation. What next, some poor innocent fruitflies or a big toad?

10) Retrovirus that infects humans has similarity to another retrovirus that infects humans, that's... not exactly surprising.

11) Suspicious that the lab kept quiet- but I'd bet it would also be 'suspicious' if they said anything too.

12) And we're off into direct sinophobia not related to the coronavirus which I can't be bothered listening to for 15 minutes. Sheesh, I think the Chinese government are complete garbage but anyone naive enough to think that the US government isn't doing exactly the same sort of biological experiments is naive, and didn't watch the same video 5 minutes earlier.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

I'm not going to watch a 54 minute video. Turns out I might listen to (most of) it while I do other things though. TLDR; the science is not all that compelling. The video is rather like the presentation of evidence for WMD in Iraq from old asterisks Cheney; you can make it seem compelling by removing every bit of equivocation or counter evidence. It still may have come from a lab, but it isn't anywhere near proven.

1) No full tracing of origin is to be expected. In the early stages you're looking only at data only from cases serious enough to have been treated in hospital for pneumonia, which make up a small number of covid19 cases. Non severe cases would be treated as if it were flu or the cold, ie stay home for a bit or tough it out, forget about it a week later. Since only a small proportion require hospitalisation you'd have the large majority of cases being silent ones making tracing extremely hard.

2) Assuming an animal origin bats are probably the ultimate source, but may not be the proximal source.

3) 100% gene sequence similarity may mean that it's under very strong selective pressure, ie the env protein and virus simply won't function properly with significant alterations. There's a reason we still share 50% of our genes with bananas, as an illustration.

4) Natural strains don't infect humans but it has the spike protein of SARS (1) which did, therefore... what? SARS did infect humans, it just had very low transmission rates. 'Natural' animal viruses most definitively do infect humans from time to time- if they want to leave out SARS because sinophobia there's also near relative MERS (ex camellids) or the less related SIV which seems to have crossed into humans at least 11 (!) times in the creation of HIV. Or Ebola/ Marburg. All of which are ssRNA viruses.

5) No, bat coronavirus having spike proteins that can infect humans does not mean there's no intermediate host full stop, it means there doesn't have to be an intermediate host.

6) Meta: isn't it nice of the Chinese to have left all these breadcrumbs, and in articles to journals like Nature or Science to boot.

7) Yes, amazingly scientists do build viruses out of bits of other viruses to test what they do and have done for rather a long time. It's even a suggested (approved now?) mechanism for gene therapy in humans.

cool) No, that does not mean that sarscov2 is artificial. Classic non sequitor, we show this and that, therefore you can draw a conclusion that does not actually follow the data gained from this or that. You've already admitted that SARS1 infected humans and working in mice != working in humans.

9) My god, they experimented on mice! And planned to on primates! In a research lab! I'm, uh, flabbergasted at this, er, revelation. What next, some poor innocent fruitflies or a big toad?

10) Retrovirus that infects humans has similarity to another retrovirus that infects humans, that's... not exactly surprising.

11) Suspicious that the lab kept quiet- but I'd bet it would also be 'suspicious' if they said anything too.

12) And we're off into direct sinophobia not related to the coronavirus which I can't be bothered listening to for 15 minutes. Sheesh, I think the Chinese government are complete garbage but anyone naive enough to think that the US government isn't doing exactly the same sort of biological experiments is naive, and didn't watch the same video 5 minutes earlier.

Thanks for spending  time understanding  the video and then responding, I am going to use some of these points to dispute what some of the my family members have been raising around this video and what they say is " compelling evidence the virus could come accidentally  from a lab and not from animals "

Also I see there is now an improved Corona antibody test which should be available in most countries soon

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/19/gov-cuomo-says-new-york-will-roll-out-antibody-testing-in-aggressive-way-this-week.html

 

[Zoraptor]

7 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

7) Yes, amazingly scientists do build viruses out of bits of other viruses to test what they do and have done for rather a long time. It's even a suggested (approved now?) mechanism for gene therapy in humans.

Bit of a better/ more relevant illustration: the vaccine undergoing trials in the UK at the moment is sarscov2 antigens (proteins) engineered onto a benign virus in order to promote an immune response. Indeed, the antigen chosen is the spike protein the video found so suspicious.

19 hours ago, Elerond said:

It would be nice if he advocates Traumakine next, hydroxychloroquine boom already increased my stock value quite lot (about +39%) (as Finland's largest pharmaceutical company Orion is one of the largest manufactures of hydroxychloroquine in world), and Traumakine is new drug from another big Finnish pharma company Faron that is tested to help in respiratory diseases. Its value has already increased during corona crisis for 20%, but I believe that it could even double its market value if Trump gives its drug free advertisement  

Oh dear, he's endorsed flushing your lungs with plain old detergent instead I'm afraid.

[Azdeus]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Bit of a better/ more relevant illustration: the vaccine undergoing trials in the UK at the moment is sarscov2 antigens (proteins) engineered onto a benign virus in order to promote an immune response. Indeed, the antigen chosen is the spike protein the video found so suspicious.

Oh dear, he's endorsed flushing your lungs with plain old detergent instead I'm afraid.

Genious! Why haven't anyone thought of that?!

[Skazz]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Oh dear, he's endorsed flushing your lungs with plain old detergent instead I'm afraid.

I thought that this couldn't possibly be real. Then I went and googled stuff.

I feel worse already.

[HoonDing]

Just go outside in the sun and you'll be cured.

 

I'm sick of this (((big pharma))) hoax.

[Guard Dog]

Just wow: Trump Suggests Injecting Disinfectant, Shining UV Light Inside Patients to Kill Coronavirus in Bizarre, Rambling Tangent

[Malcador]

39 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Just wow: Trump Suggests Injecting Disinfectant, Shining UV Light Inside Patients to Kill Coronavirus in Bizarre, Rambling Tangent

[213374U]

11 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Oh dear, he's endorsed flushing your lungs with plain old detergent instead I'm afraid.

Well, that, much like the handgun solution, is guaranteed to prevent death from COVID-19. And seeing as how that's the only valid metric...

[Totally not Gorgon]

Is anyone surprised ?

 

I mean it's amazing he's kept up an appearance of normalcy for as long as he has. The problem is his challenger is probably starting to go senile as well. 

[Bartimaeus]

He should practice what he preaches.

[ShadySands]

Looks like our various Denver metro stay at home orders will be extended by 2 weeks while the state order will switch to safer at home starting next week

I'm in no hurry to get back to the office or any semblance of normal, maybe next year.

[Raithe]

[HoonDing]

"Just wow: Trump Suggests Injecting Disinfectant, Shining UV Light Inside Patients to Kill Coronavirus in Bizarre, Rambling Tangent"

 

I'm surprised he beat Ron Paul to the punch.

[Raithe]

[rjshae]

8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Just wow: Trump Suggests Injecting Disinfectant, Shining UV Light Inside Patients to Kill Coronavirus in Bizarre, Rambling Tangent

Only if he volunteers to try it first.

[Raithe]

Upworthy - Sesame Street characters explain pandemic to kids in special town hall

CNN and Sesame Street are teaming up to help parents start the important dialogue on the current health crisis with their little ones.

As the pandemic and lockdown drag on, parents find themselves in the tricky spot of having to answer the zillion questions their kids have. Why can't we visit grandma and grandpa? Why can't they visit us? Why don't mom and dad go to work anymore? Can we go to the park? What's a "coronavirus"? As much as many of them are enjoying this break from school, they are sure to have picked up on the tension in the air from the bits and pieces they hear about the global health crisis. Rather than leave them to form their own assumptions, it’s best to explain the situation to them in a way that will help them understand without feeling overwhelmed by it all.

Sounds like quite a challenge, doesn't it? Thankfully, CNN and Sesame Street are teaming up to help parents start this important dialogue with their puzzled little ones. This Saturday, April 25, the network and the iconic show will be hosting a very special town hall for young viewers and their parents to address the novel Coronavirus outbreak. The town hall will feature several Sesame Street characters—Elmo, Abby Cadabby, Rosita, and Grover— with CNN Chief Medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and CNN anchor Erica Hill.

According to CNN, "The ABC's of Covid 19: A CNN/Sesame Street Town Hall for Kids and Parents" will tackle issues including education, anxiety, screen time, and playdates in the time of this pandemic. During the 90-minutes-long segment, the iconic characters and their friends from CNN will reportedly answer questions submitted in advance by families. The town hall will be moderated by everyone's favorite yellow feathered character Big Bird, Dr. Gupta, and Hill. According to Scary Mommy, viewers can also expect cameos from Sesame Street’s Alan Muraoka and Dr. Rosemarie Truglio.

Kids and parents can send in their questions about the pandemic via the CNN website here. At the time of submitting the questions, you'll be required to include your full name and phone number, which indicates that the town hall might be somewhat interactive. According to the network, "the town hall will air on CNN, CNN International and CNN en Español. It will stream live on CNN.com's homepage and across mobile devices via CNN's apps, without requiring a cable log-in. You can also watch on CNNgo, and subscribers to cable/satellite systems can watch it on-demand."

The special builds on Sesame Workshop's Caring for Each Other initiative, which aims to "help children everywhere grow smarter, stronger, and kinder." The initiative provides "valuable resources that bring children comfort, spark learning, and help families face challenges together." According to the official Sesame Street website, "Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit on a mission that keeps us focused, passionate, and moving forward. There are so many ways to help kids grow smarter, stronger, and kinder, and we’re doing everything we can to meet their needs in more than 150 countries."

[Bartimaeus]

Photographer happened to capture Trump's disinfectant and UV "lightbulb" moment (yes, this is a real photo).

Edited April 25, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Skarpen]

14 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Just wow: Trump Suggests Injecting Disinfectant, Shining UV Light Inside Patients to Kill Coronavirus in Bizarre, Rambling Tangent

I've read the title and then the presidents quote and he didn't said what the title suggests. What a clickbait.

[BruceVC]

SA has been on lock-down for 1 month and its time to share an honest assessment of how we doing and what the future possibly  holds based on choices we have made and had to make and also the economic future 

Firstly based on the reality of the corrupt previous president SA before the impact of virus   had a deeply problematic public healthcare system and our economy was weak and we had been downgraded fairly by the credit ratings for not addressing imprudent and egregious government spending, greed of the unions around salary negotiations and government not being able to deal with our growing debt to GDP ratio. Basically I was very worried we would not address the virus reality well due to past experiences 

But as a country and government we have done the best and most effective job we can do under the circumstances based on our reality .....but based on our reality is the key question. We absolutely made the right choice around implementing a proper lock-down  " early"  and I give full credit to our government for not equivocating around this. Some key developments

• Trump phoned our president to express solidarity with SA and chat about how we are addressing the spread...Im unclear what was the real reason Trump contacted SA considering his general disdain for how poorer countries do things but this call is welcomed nonetheless 
• The W.H.O has recognized that SA is doing an excellent job at addressing virus spread and heaped praise on us. I think this is actually unhelpful and premature as we honestly have very limited proper testing equipment and we dont even have all the PPE we need, so we dont know the true nature of the virus spread.  This is a global problem but worse in SA. I dont want W.HO. to create a false sense of success for SA which in the next few weeks undermines our efforts as we become lax in our efforts or the true spread of the virus becomes apparent 
• We are deploying our ENTIRE army to address the lock-down rules and enforce important lock-down regulations, thats 70000 military personal. As I mentioned  I absolutely support the deployment of the army in SA but it concerns me why government feels the unprecedented historical  deployment of the army is necessary if things are going so well

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-52387962

In summary as  far as  addressing the virus we are doing the most effective job we can do but our economic future is looking bleak...worse than ever before once the virus ends but that we will have to deal with that  later 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by BruceVC

[Guard Dog]

An alarming number of Americans believe a coronavirus vaccine exists and is being withheld

Wow. It's one thing to think government, not ours but any, is incompetent. It is. It's a whole other step to think it's evil. 

But some actually are so there is that.