[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Then a Forbidden Fist with low INT can prolong multiple time hostile effects.

What do you mean?

[Elric Galad]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

What do you mean?

When enfeebled ellapse, you can reapply it and get another +50% duration on all hostile effects (that cumulates with previously applied one).

So with a very low FF duration, you can apply Enfeebled multiple time.

[Boeroer]

But... the prolonged duration of a hostile effect shortens again once enfeebled runs out, doesn't it (unlike Strand of Favor stuff)?

It may be that you can time it right so something is still left so that you can prolong it again, but afaik that's not really a worthwhile endeavor.

On the other hand I didn't test this a lot so please feel free to correct me if that's not the case.  

Edited November 7, 2021 by Boeroer

[NotDumbEnough]

The shrine on the same island as Neketaka seems to be different than the ones near Crookspur and Poko Kahara. This shrine doesn't eat up all your other resting bonuses when you use it, so it's a free +2 constitution on top of whatever else you already had. Seems to stack with resting bonuses, prostitute bonuses, the pool in Outcasts' Respite.

[NotDumbEnough]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:12 AM, Boeroer said:

But... the prolonged duration of a hostile effect shortens again once enfeebled runs out, doesn't it (unlike Strand of Favor stuff)?

It may be that you can time it right so something is still left so that you can prolong it again, but afaik that's not really a worthwhile endeavor.

On the other hand I didn't test this a lot so please feel free to correct me if that's not the case.  

You can't repeatedly extend the duration, it can only happen once.

[NotDumbEnough]

It seems that everyone has proficiency for Cipher's Reaping Knives, e.g. it works well with Devoted. Druid spiritshift weapons are not proficient, and I'm not sure about Rot Skulls/Kalakoth's Minor Blights or any other summoned weapon that doesn't correspond to a normal weapon type.

[Boeroer]

9 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I'm not sure about Rot Skulls/Kalakoth's Minor Blights or any other summoned weapon that doesn't correspond to a normal weapon type.

They all have no proficiency afair. Tested Minor Blights, Cobra Strike, Rot Skulls, Ogre Fists (Form of the Fearsome Brute) and Draining Touch quite some time ago. Maybe something changed since then but I don't think so. Don't recall how Woedica's claws/fists work after the nerf (they used to work with unarmed profiency when they still worked with Monastic uT/Transcendent Suff.).

Cool find with the Reaping Knives! Too bad Devoted's +2 PEN does nothing for them.  

[Kaylon]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:12 AM, Boeroer said:

But... the prolonged duration of a hostile effect shortens again once enfeebled runs out, doesn't it (unlike Strand of Favor stuff)?

It may be that you can time it right so something is still left so that you can prolong it again, but afaik that's not really a worthwhile endeavor.

On the other hand I didn't test this a lot so please feel free to correct me if that's not the case.  

 

23 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

You can't repeatedly extend the duration, it can only happen once.

Yes, you can prolong hostile effects multiple times, it works just like Strand of Favor with self buffs.  It can be very useful if you want to avoid using modals 100% of the time or if you want to keep dots going forever. To give a strong boost you should apply Enfeebled first and, when it nearly expires, use the debuffs, then apply Enfeebled again right after the first expired. Anyway, you can use that first step with any kind of build without too much hassle. This trick can also allow to easily stack  multiple dots like Poison-Dipped from Saru-Sichr or Bleeding Cuts from axes.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Kaylon

[Avaritica]

For your information, there is a problem with level scaling on the task Sealed Fate.

This post illustrates the problem that I will explain below.

Spoiler

After retrieving Degnos' Satchel and on your way to Queen's berth, you will encounter Talfor party. You can choose to fight them.
The task itself is marked as level 4 and the talfor's guys are level around level 4-6.

However, the encounter itself is mistakenly tagged as level 1 which means that if you play with levelscaling on, the game will upscale all of them(most likely max 4 levels since you are at least level 5 when you arrive Neketaka).

So that fight is unnecessarily super duper hard(or close to impossible) on veteran or POTD if you do it at intended level.

Actually, I found more instances like this in the file. A Lagufaeth encounter is tagged as level 1 even though they have base level of 9. Also Naga with baselevel of 15 also have a level 1 encounter. This might be the reason why deadfire has levelscaling capped at 4. Devs are aware that some encounters weren't properly tuned but they couldn't check all of them so instead they put a cap on levelscaling and made it so that all quests will be doable if you return to it a higher level(even though that completely messed up recommended level indicator)

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Avaritica

[Boeroer]

Interesting. Which files contain those settings?

[Avaritica]

It is inside Worldmap.gamedatabundle. Look for "EncounterLevel"(For sealed fate, it should be at line 12363)

Modding them is super easy. I tweaked the value to test and it works perfectly.

I posted here because I think it would be better for big mod like Community Patch or Balance Polishing Mod to incorporate the fix, rather than me creating a small mod.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Avaritica

[Elric Galad]

I think it would be ideal to include it in CP @MaxQuest

[Noqn]

Awesome find @Avaritica, nice to finally get an explanation to the Talfor encounter's insane difficulty spike

Since WorldMapEncounterComponent.EncounterLevel defaults to 1, these are most likely instances where the devs have forgotten to assign a level to the encounter altogether. Much easier to find and fix than if there were a pattern of incorrectly assigned encounter levels, I imagine.

Here are all lv1 encounters with spawns, i.e. the ones that might not have the proper EncounterLevel value assigned to them:

Spoiler

RE_City_Merchant_Slick1
RE_Mataru_Guard_Ambush
RE_Talfor_Pirates
RE_Lagufaeth
RE_Wahaki_Huana_Ruins
re_campsite_flame_naga
RE_Junvik_Eoten_Guard
RE_Hunter_Camp_Trader
RE_Hunter_Camp_Trader_Huana
2604_Lagufaeth_Warchief
RE_Slavers
RE_Thieving_Imps
RE_Unaffiliated_Pirates
RE_Ghost_Ship_Dispatch
RE_Plague_Ship_Dead
RE_Plague_Ship_Smugglers
RE_RDC_Huana_Ruins
RE_RDC_Pai
RE_Stranded_Ship_Spirits
RE_Vailian_LuminousAdra_Merchant_Ship
RE_Vailian_LuminousAdra_Merchant_Ship_02
RE_Vailian_LuminousAdra_Merchant_Ship_03
RE_Vailian_Merchant_Ship
RE_Ukaizo_Corsairs
RE_Ukaizo_Huana
RE_Ukaizo_Principi
RE_Ukaizo_RDC
RE_Ukaizo_Ruquapa
RE_Ukaizo_Slavers
RE_Ukaizo_VTC
RE_Ukaizo_Watershapers
RE_Wahaki_Sea_Combat
RE_Wrecked_Ship_Lagufaeth

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Noqn

[Boeroer]

I often play without scaling. Even then Talfor is harder than most other encounters at that level. 

I wonder if Eamund the Fox in Dunnage is also borked or just intentionally difficult. 

 

[Noqn]

40 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I wonder if Eamund the Fox in Dunnage is also borked or just intentionally difficult. 

His encounter is set to Lv 10 so I think it's intentional. I generally get to Dunnage pretty late in my playthroughs so I never noticed, but that's a quite high leveled encounter if you sailed to Dunnage early.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Noqn

[Boeroer]

Yes, especially because it's an ambush you can't talk yourself out of. And what leads to that encounter is all easy-peasy non-combat stuff. 

[abot]

> it is a difficulty only limited to +3 (or 4 I don't remember) your party level
but - but ... that is is not a bug, it is how it works, it is meant to be extremely difficult, the whole meaning of choosing "always upscale up"

[thelee]

6 hours ago, Noqn said:

Awesome find @Avaritica, nice to finally get an explanation to the Talfor encounter's insane difficulty spike

yeah, A+ incredible find @Avaritica. I think I've only ever beaten Talfor at the intended difficulty level once, and that probably had a lot more to do with just how good ancient's sporelings are than anything else (still required a lot of micromanagement to run allies out of range of rogues winding up with an attack). Good to know this was likely accidental.

 

 

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Noqn said:

His encounter is set to Lv 10 so I think it's intentional. I generally get to Dunnage pretty late in my playthroughs so I never noticed, but that's a quite high leveled encounter if you sailed to Dunnage early.

the quest itself is not level 10 though? i seem to recall it being not-skulled at level 8 or so. it's a rough encounter at that level. though the big difference versus talfor is that you're ever so slightly higher level and more builds have more options to have a fighting chance.

Edited November 10, 2021 by thelee

[dgray62]

Another mystery explained. Thanks, @Avaritica

[Noqn]

17 minutes ago, thelee said:

the quest itself is not level 10 though? i seem to recall it being not-skulled at level 8 or so.

Yeah, the quest is only lv 7, which adds to the whiplash of the encounter

18 minutes ago, abot said:

> it is a difficulty only limited to +3 (or 4 I don't remember) your party level
but - but ... that is is not a bug, it is how it works, it is meant to be extremely difficult, the whole meaning of choosing "always upscale up"

The issue is that if the encounter is marked Lv 1, it will scale upwards even if the actual spawns are at (or above) the player's level.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Noqn

[thelee]

6 minutes ago, Noqn said:

The issue is that if the encounter is marked Lv 1, it will scale upwards even if the actual spawns are at (or above) the player's level.

Yeah, imagine doing "scale up AND scale down", you do Sealed Fate at like level 4, and instead of enemies being scaled down 1 level or so, they are still scaled up +3/4 levels. that's crazy

[thelee]

was testing an arcane archer / fury combo, and it looks like driving flight doesn't affect the fury weapon (only ever +1 bounce)?

is this something that's fixable?

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

was testing an arcane archer / fury combo, and it looks like driving flight doesn't affect the fury weapon (only ever +1 bounce)?

is this something that's fixable?

Ney, I tried to fix it before but it looks to be broken beyond repair for some reasons.

[MaxQuest]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:16 AM, Avaritica said:

Actually, I found more instances like this in the file. A Lagufaeth encounter is tagged as level 1 even though they have base level of 9. Also Naga with baselevel of 15 also have a level 1 encounter. This might be the reason why deadfire has levelscaling capped at 4. Devs are aware that some encounters weren't properly tuned but they couldn't check all of them so instead they put a cap on levelscaling and made it so that all quests will be doable if you return to it a higher level(even though that completely messed up recommended level indicator)

This could be one reason.

Also they could set an upscale limit to avoid things like lvl 20 young boar  or something like this:

Spoiler

 

22 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I think it would be ideal to include it in CP @MaxQuest

I remember that spike in difficulty and can include that.

Am thinking about setting EncounterLevel to 4 or 5.