So... the loot kinda sucks

[RedKnight]

 

Like I said, I am done with you.

Well, obviously you are not...?

 

It should be obvious to anyone who followed this conversation that you are only interested in smelling your own farts

Don't know. If I look at the likes of every post (don't have another indicator other than the several posts that call you out) it seems that most people who read this thread didn't really get it.

 

and are completely ignoring everything I write.

Nananana *plugs ears like a five year old* - you mean like that? I wonder why I don't write about farts. I guess I left my anal phase without noticing... like 40 years ago...

 

Case and point, in your new analogy, it seems I haven't even read the item descriptions now... That's really funny. A few posts ago you were saying that I actually did do that. You also are claiming that I cant hit anything with the new weapon, yet... funny enough I steam roll through the game.

Those are analogies, not metaphors. You have to interpret them accordingly. Reading the manual translates to testing out the loot. Not reading the manual does not translate to not reading the descriptions. Not hitting with the gun means you can't see the point of the loot items. Steamrolling through the game proves as much as picking your nose in this case: where we talk about the quality of the loot and the ability to discover its power.

 

You can choose to victimize yourself over and over. Does it help selling your points? I don't think so.

 

Either way... cool story, dude. Too bad it exists only in your immagination.

So - your analogies actually all happened? Phew - that limits the variatey of analogies you can pull off, doesn't it? Or it speaks of a really weird life...

 

 

 

Cheers!

We'll see about that...

 

 

Pure sophistry!

[AeonsLegend]

Well look at it this way RedKnight. I've been on this forum for a long time now and I can safely say this is a really tightknit and friendly community. What people don't like however is someone coming onto the forum and then throw some mud at the game creators (because you are frustrated) and then start off in a forum fight because you cannot admit you are being a bit of a ****. To top it off you managed to get into a fight with Boeroer. I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

 

You don't like the loot system. We get it. You're frustrated. We get it.

 

A little advice though. Next time you come into a community be a bit more friendly in your first post. Even if it is to say you don't like something. Perhaps ask questions instead of throwing out empty statements like "whoever came up with that design should really stay as far away from loot as possible!". It adds no value to the discussion, nor does it actually make a point. It basically translates to "the creators suck". In fact If you had simply posted that line the result would have been largely the same.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, I think we're done here. [...] Enjoy arguing with your own strawmen and equivocation fallacies.

K

 

Like I said, I am done with you.

KK

 

Cheers!

We'll see...

 

Pure sophistry!

Oh hi! You are really not good at turning rethoric into action, are you?

Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[Verde]

Ok ok can you guys stop already? Neither are acting like angels here. If there is no way to make this discussion more constructive might as well close the topic.

[RedKnight]

Well look at it this way RedKnight. I've been on this forum for a long time now and I can safely say this is a really tightknit and friendly community. What people don't like however is someone coming onto the forum and then throw some mud at the game creators (because you are frustrated) and then start off in a forum fight because you cannot admit you are being a bit of a ****. To top it off you managed to get into a fight with Boeroer. I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

 

You don't like the loot system. We get it. You're frustrated. We get it.

 

A little advice though. Next time you come into a community be a bit more friendly in your first post. Even if it is to say you don't like something. Perhaps ask questions instead of throwing out empty statements like "whoever came up with that design should really stay as far away from loot as possible!". It adds no value to the discussion, nor does it actually make a point. It basically translates to "the creators suck". In fact If you had simply posted that line the result would have been largely the same.

1. I wasn't slinging **** at the devs. I said that I am generally positively inclined towards the game. Read my initial post - it's right there. Why some of you are reading your own fabrications into my text is really not my problem, you know? What is happening here is that you and a few others are acting like a bunch of fanboys who cant handle constructive criticism and are doing everything in your power to derail the conversation. I actually find it genuinly funny.

2. I didn't start with insults. It's Berpissor or what's his name that started with the insults by calling me a headless chicken and a 5-year old who is jumping to conclusions and who is not reading the descriptions and is not testing the items (all of which he is just assuming and pulling out of his ass). And here you are (yet another one of his lackeys), sniffing his farts and calling me an ****. So when I respond in kind, people will say I am being rude. Well, yeah.. I am being rude to rude people. Sorry, but not sorry about that at all

3. I am not frustrated at all with the game. I love the game. I just think the loot is utter crap - especially in comparison to the first game. A lot of people made valid observations how it could be due to leveling too fast, or just loot being way too balanced or depending too heavily on metagameplay etc... and those responses I accepted without an issue. Hell, there is even some wisdom in Berdungor's comments here an there and I acknowledged that, but most of it is just pure sophistry unfortunately.

4. And you don't get to teach me manners when you and your master have shown nothing but utter contempt for a rational discussion.

Edited March 15, 2019 by RedKnight

[Boeroer]

1. I wasn't slinging **** at the devs. I said that I am generally positively inclined towards the game. Read my initial post - it's right there. Why some of you are reading your own fabrications into my text is really not my problem, you know? What is happening here is that you and a few others are acting like a bunch of fanboys who cant handle constructive criticism and are doing everything in your power to derail the conversation. I actually find it genuinly funny.

2. I didn't start with insults. It's Berpissor or what's his name that started with the insults by calling me a headless chicken and a 5-year old who is jumping to conclusions and who is not reading the descriptions and is not testing the items (all of which he is just assuming and pulling out of his ass). And here you are (yet another one of his lackeys), sniffing his farts and calling me an ****. So when I respond in kind, people will say I am being rude. Well, yeah.. I am being rude to rude people. Sorry, but not sorry about that at all

3. I am not frustrated at all with the game. I love the game. I just think the loot is utter crap - especially in comparison to the first game. A lot of people made valid observations how it could be due to leveling too fast, or just loot being way too balanced or depending too heavily on metagameplay etc... and those responses I accepted without an issue. Hell, there is even some wisdom in Berdungor's comments here an there and I acknowledged that, but most of it is just pure sophistry unfortunately.

4. And you don't get to teach me manners when you and your master have shown nothing but utter contempt for a rational discussion.

1. Your criticism was not constructive. Read your inital post - it's right there. It's cursory, hyperbolic, provokative and presents false examples. And surely you attacked the devs. They guy/gal who designed the loot and according to you should step away from it? Remember that one? She/he's a dev, too.

 

2. You did start with insults. And you keep insulting. Where I compared my mom to a headless chicken (but only when it comes to driving a car) just to give an example that doing something for a long time doesn't make you an expert, you choose to call me Berpissor. Which is not only quite unimaginative (would be lame even for five-year-olds I guess but I'm no expert) but also a direct insult that adds up to the scatology you were using and is not suited to make your posts any more constructive.

 

3. You may think the loot is utter crap compared to PoE  - but as I tried to show you that's because you didn't understand it yet - because you jumped to conclusions. You jumped to conclusions because you didn't know a lot about how the loot works because its features can be somewhat hidden and you didn't test it enough. Example: stats bonuses are lower compared to PoE because in Deadfire they all stack while in PoE they didn't. It's a totally forgivable jump but a jump nonetheless. 

 

4. We are not the ones who talked about "smelling our own farts" multiple times or tried to construct insults out of harmless comparisons or anologies. The only one who shows no manners and really destroys the opportunity for a rational discussion is you.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[xzar_monty]

Boeroer: In a way I admire your persistence and coherent reasoning, but given how needlessly rude, childish and offensive the OP has got, I'd just give up. The talk about smelling farts would be unbelievably stupid for a ten-year-old, and I believe we're talking about a (physical) adult here.

[RedKnight]

 

1. I wasn't slinging **** at the devs. I said that I am generally positively inclined towards the game. Read my initial post - it's right there. Why some of you are reading your own fabrications into my text is really not my problem, you know? What is happening here is that you and a few others are acting like a bunch of fanboys who cant handle constructive criticism and are doing everything in your power to derail the conversation. I actually find it genuinly funny.

2. I didn't start with insults. It's Berpissor or what's his name that started with the insults by calling me a headless chicken and a 5-year old who is jumping to conclusions and who is not reading the descriptions and is not testing the items (all of which he is just assuming and pulling out of his ass). And here you are (yet another one of his lackeys), sniffing his farts and calling me an ****. So when I respond in kind, people will say I am being rude. Well, yeah.. I am being rude to rude people. Sorry, but not sorry about that at all

3. I am not frustrated at all with the game. I love the game. I just think the loot is utter crap - especially in comparison to the first game. A lot of people made valid observations how it could be due to leveling too fast, or just loot being way too balanced or depending too heavily on metagameplay etc... and those responses I accepted without an issue. Hell, there is even some wisdom in Berdungor's comments here an there and I acknowledged that, but most of it is just pure sophistry unfortunately.

4. And you don't get to teach me manners when you and your master have shown nothing but utter contempt for a rational discussion.

1. Your criticism was not constructive. Read your inital post - it's right there. It's cursory, hyperbolic, provokative and presents false examples. And surely you attacked the devs. They guy/gal who designed the loot and according to you should step away from it? Remember that one? She/he's a dev, too.

 

2. You did start with insults. And you keep insulting. Where I compared my mom to a headless chicken (but only when it comes to driving a car) just to give an example that doing something for a long time doesn't make you an expert, you choose to call me Berpissor. Which is not only quite unimaginative (would be lame even for five-year-olds I guess but I'm no expert) but also a direct insult that adds up to the scatology you were using and is not suited to make your posts any more constructive.

 

3. You may thing the loot is utter crap compared to PoE  - but as I tried to show you that's because you didn't understand it yet - because you jumped to conclusions. You jumped to conclusions because you didn't know a lot about how the loot works because its features can be somewhat hidden and you didn't test it enough. Example: stats bonuses are lower compared to PoE because in Deadfire they all stack while in PoE they didn't. It's a totally forgivable jump but a jump nonetheless. 

 

4. We are not the ones who talked about "smelling our own farts" multiple times or tried to construct insults out of harmless comparisons or anologies. The only one who shows no manners and really destroys the opportunity for a rational discussion is you.

 

Utter nonsense and this is my final attempt to explain why!

1. Hiding your insults behind cleverly constructed analogies is still an insult. You are just being sneaky about it. Look, I can do it too. You are like my friend who likes to talk a lot, but when he speaks it's all just some extremely dull and unintelligable sound that resembles fart noises. I am not insulting you. I am making an anology about my friend combined with a colorful metaphor about how talking a lot and speaking in a sphisticated manner doesn't mean you are making good arguments. After all, what you are doing here is pure sophistry in its lowest form.

2. To say that I dont understand the system when I am steamrolling everything I come across makes absolutely no sense. Sure, I may not know every nook and cranny like you do, but to reduce my expertise and experience to a 5 year old headless chicken who is jumping to conclusions is beyond absurd!

3. I am well aware of how the vast majority of items work. I just don't find that approach very enticing and rewarding. You can disagree, which is fine btw, but dont tell me I am jumping to conclusions when you yourself have confiirmed pretty much every design decision I criticized. It's not my fault that your head is too deep in your ass that you don't notice it. Case and point, I said on multiple occasions that I never do metagameplay, and that I avoid guides and excel sheets like a plague - yet your whole argument why the gear is TEH BEST EVAH boils down to meta knowledge. Now, this is a personal preference and if you love meta-gameplay, that's great for you. I still think it's **** and antithetical to RPG genre - which should also be fine.

4. Scatology is the only way to explain what is dripping from your brain, unfortunately. Unlike you, at least I am being brutally honest and am not hiding my insults behind cleverly constructed sophist analogies. Again, just my own personal preference how I approach people who I find intellectually dishonest.

Edited March 15, 2019 by RedKnight

[bugarup]

I think this dude is of the lot who just cannot leave unless their word is the last. Which wont work because the last one will be mod's anyway, but by all means do proceed. 

 

 

[AeonsLegend]

I think this dude is of the lot who just cannot leave unless their word is the last. Which wont work because the last one will be mod's anyway, but by all means do proceed. 

 

I know right? He just doesn't give up. All he needs to do is accept he was wrong, but he can't. Eh! I love it. I mean, I can go and reply to his response to my message and say wtf man are you blind? but I don't want to man. Takes too much energy to convince someone of his errors when their belief is 100% that they are in the right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

Now where's my popcorn....

[Boeroer]

Utter nonsense and this is my final attempt to explain why!

Phew - how many finals you've got up your sleeve?

  

1. Hiding your insults behind cleverly constructed analogies is still an insult. You are just being sneaky about it.

Look, I can do it too. You are like my friend who likes to talk a lot, but when he speaks it's all just some extremely dull and unintelligable sound that resembles fart noises. I am not insulting you. I am making an anology about my friend combined with a colorful metaphor about how talking a lot and speaking in a sphisticated manner doesn't mean you are making good arguments. After all, what you are doing here is pure sophistry in its lowest form.

As I told you before it was not meant as an insult and also doesen't come over as one for any reasonable person. You can act as if it was an insult and insist - but that doesn't make it true. It only lets you look ridiculous. And even if I had "sneakily" insulted you (which I did not) - why would you have to respond with more insults?

 

And no, you can obviously not. Actually you are insulting me directly. Because you say "You are like XY". It's like saying "You are like a pig". I, on the other hand, said "It doesn't matter how many RPGs you played by the way. My mom drives her car for over 45 years now - but she still drives like a freshly beheaded chicken...". I didn't say "You are like my mom who behaves like a headless chicken". I compared the statement "I played a lot of RPGs so I know how this works" with the statement "My mom drove a lot of cars but still drives like a headless chicken". There is no insult. If you see one it's just your imagination.

 

2. To say that I dont understand the system when I am steamrolling everything I come across makes absolutely no sense.

Sure, I may not know every nook and cranny like you do, but to reduce my expertise and experience to a 5 year old headless chicken who is jumping to conclusions is beyond absurd!

But I didn't say that. I said that you don't understand the quality of the loot. You can "steamroll" many things without knowing how some of its parts work.

 

I didn't say that last one either. You really have to work on your reading comprehension. Or you are making up stuff on the fly on purpose, no idea.

I said that your titel and post had the tone of a five year old. I never said that your expertise of the game has anything to do with that. I also didn't call you a headless chicken as I pointed out several times now. You were jumping to conclusions because you assumed things and didn't try out items thoroughly. Maybe it's the game's fault that you did - but you did nonetheless.

 

3. I am well aware of how the vast majority of items work. I just don't find that approach very enticing and rewarding.

Fair enough. I don't have a problem with that.

 

You can disagree, which is fine btw, but dont tell me I am jumping to conclusions when you yourself have confiirmed pretty much every design decision I criticized.

Jumping to conclusions and being right about a part of the game which lured you into jumping to conclusions are not mutually exclusive. You are right that the descriptions are obscure and can be misleading. But - again - that makes the descriptions bad, but not the loot itself. Hence no need to say that it sucks.

 

It's not my fault that your head is too deep in your ass that you don't notice it.

Again a direct insult that was totally uncalled for. And everything because you think I compared you to my moither who drives crappy? My...

 

Case and point, I said on multiple occasions that I never do metagameplay, yet your whole argument why the gear is TEH BEST EVAH boils down to meta knowledge.

I never said that it's the best ever. I only said that a) it doesn't suck and b) it's more powerful than in PoE while you claimed that it's the other way round. I also acknowledged that you need some knowledge to apprechiate it. Still no reason to claim taht it sucks. What sucks may be the descriptions.

 

Now, this is a personal preference and if you love it, that's great. I still think it's ****, which should also be fine.

It is. It totally is. It's your way of "presenting" your opinion which is not.

 

4. Scatology is the only way to explain what is dripping from your brain, unfortunately.

Another unprovoked insult which shows that you were not interested in a fruitful discussion in the first place.

 

 

 

Unlike you, at least I am being brutally honest and am not hiding my insults behind cleverly constructed sophist analogies.

Again, just my own personal preference how I approach people who I find dishonest.

What you are honestly showing is a decent amount of squeamishness, a lack of reading comprehension and an evil tongue.

Hope it doesn't lead to you being in jail at some point...

[elbe]

Frankly it just sounds like Deadfire is not the right game for OP.  The game has taken a very specific approach to its loot system, and (in my opinion) it does it very well in the context of what it is trying to achieve.  It sounds like there are just unavoidable differences in how Deadfire has been (deliberately) designed and what OP wants.  That's not the game's fault and nor is it OPs - just means the game is not a good fit.

 

A few points:

• Deadfire has not been designed around a linear loot progression system.  Loot that you acquire in the "end game" is not necessarily better than loot that you acquire early.
• For the most part, all loot in the game has been designed so that, with the right set-up, it will can be effective. 
• This is not to say that loot is useless.  In many cases loot can be build-defining (as evidenced through the many builds posted on these forums that are built around very specific items).  It is just a matter of finding the right combinations and experimenting with new set-ups, which the game strongly encourages.
• There is a strong argument that this increases the game's longevity.  There is a reason people still theory-craft new builds on these forums almost a year after the game was released, compared with other RPGs that are not as well balanced where people have figured out the most optimum builds within the first month, removing a large reason to keep re-playing the game.
• The developers have tried to avoid designing items that just give flat bonuses to stats.  You won't find many items that just give +5 to stats like you might in some other RPGs.  A lot of unique are situationally beneficially, designed to be built around, or require some cost/benefit analysis to get the most use out of.  There is, however, enough variety in the loot that you should be able to find an item that works well regardless of your build.

I guess in summary if you want a game where you get a +1 sword in Act 1, a +2 sword in Act 2, and so on, then Deadfire is not for you.

 

If you want a game that encourages multiple playthroughs, rewards creativity, and where there is no one clear "optimum" set-up, then Deadfire does that really well.

 

[Amentep]

We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ.  Please discuss the specifics of Deadfire, its game mechanics, or loot.

 

Please do not discuss each other, with insults or not.

[Boeroer]

Frankly it just sounds like Deadfire is not the right game for OP.  The game has taken a very specific approach to its loot system, and (in my opinion) it does it very well in the context of what it is trying to achieve.  It sounds like there are just unavoidable differences in how Deadfire has been (deliberately) designed and what OP wants.  That's not the game's fault and nor is it OPs - just means the game is not a good fit.

 

A few points:

• Deadfire has not been designed around a linear loot progression system.  Loot that you acquire in the "end game" is not necessarily better than loot that you acquire early.
• For the most part, all loot in the game has been designed so that, with the right set-up, it will can be effective. 
• This is not to say that loot is useless.  In many cases loot can be build-defining (as evidenced through the many builds posted on these forums that are built around very specific items).  It is just a matter of finding the right combinations and experimenting with new set-ups, which the game strongly encourages.
• There is a strong argument that this increases the game's longevity.  There is a reason people still theory-craft new builds on these forums almost a year after the game was released, compared with other RPGs that are not as well balanced where people have figured out the most optimum builds within the first month, removing a large reason to keep re-playing the game.
• The developers have tried to avoid designing items that just give flat bonuses to stats.  You won't find many items that just give +5 to stats like you might in some other RPGs.  A lot of unique are situationally beneficially, designed to be built around, or require some cost/benefit analysis to get the most use out of.  There is, however, enough variety in the loot that you should be able to find an item that works well regardless of your build.

I guess in summary if you want a game where you get a +1 sword in Act 1, a +2 sword in Act 2, and so on, then Deadfire is not for you.

 

If you want a game that encourages multiple playthroughs, rewards creativity, and where there is no one clear "optimum" set-up, then Deadfire does that really well.

 

Very nice post.

[xzar_monty]

If you want a game that encourages multiple playthroughs, rewards creativity, and where there is no one clear "optimum" set-up, then Deadfire does that really well.

 

Your post was a good one, I simply wish to comment on this point.

 

I would argue that any game where everything always happens the same way does not encourage multiple playthroughs, or even a second one, but that's obviously just my view.

 

Just a little bit of randomness in encounters, quests, quest availability, shop inventories, shopkeeper appearances (in the sense of who's where and when on the maps, not in the sense of what they look like) etc. would add an awful lot of spice and replayability to a CRPG. And yes, I understand the extra work this would entail.

 

I often think how lovely it would be if a huge new CRPG title (such as Deadfire was when it came out) contained this type of stuff to a significant extent. You couldn't go to a forum and ask for the location of the best <your favorite thing here> because your game would be slightly different from mine. And yes, I agree it'd be a nightmare for the players who want to check out everything in advance.

[Boeroer]

Diablo and other ARPGs try this with generated loot complemented with unique items sometimes. While this might be a valid apporach for ARPGs I don't like it too much for more traditional RPGs. Already PoE's pseudo-randomized loot was a pain in my personal backside.

 

It wouldn't only be a nightmare for the players who want to check everything in advance (which I for example don't do - I like to try stuff out by myself as much as I can - I simply can't "replay" builds of other people since all the fun already happened) - but also for those who just want to discuss builds, tactics and so on.

 

But I would totally appreciate variations in encounter setups. What I would like a lot would be improved "smart" KI that would learn how I play the game and adapt accordingly (in bounds of the ruleset). Like... suddenly a Blade Turning Monk gets send after my melee-only superdeady Shadowdancer - or so.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[elbe]

 

If you want a game that encourages multiple playthroughs, rewards creativity, and where there is no one clear "optimum" set-up, then Deadfire does that really well.

 

Your post was a good one, I simply wish to comment on this point.

 

I would argue that any game where everything always happens the same way does not encourage multiple playthroughs, or even a second one, but that's obviously just my view.

 

Just a little bit of randomness in encounters, quests, quest availability, shop inventories, shopkeeper appearances (in the sense of who's where and when on the maps, not in the sense of what they look like) etc. would add an awful lot of spice and replayability to a CRPG. And yes, I understand the extra work this would entail.

 

I often think how lovely it would be if a huge new CRPG title (such as Deadfire was when it came out) contained this type of stuff to a significant extent. You couldn't go to a forum and ask for the location of the best <your favorite thing here> because your game would be slightly different from mine. And yes, I agree it'd be a nightmare for the players who want to check out everything in advance.

 

 

 

That's a very interesting point.  While there is certainly enough build variety in Deadfire to keep my re-playing it, I have to confess that the actual story progression tends to be nearly identical for me each time (particularly for the first 10-13 levels where I almost follow a prescribed path).  While that's partly my fault, sometimes I wonder if it would be better if the game forced me out of my comfort zone every now and then (or perhaps that's what Eothas' Challenge is for ).

 

I should say though that I'm not a big fan of randomized loot.  In a game like Deadfire where I might be building around a specific item, I don't want that entire play through to hinge on whether a key item shows up.

Edited March 15, 2019 by elbe

[Boeroer]

To be honest I don't pay much attention to the story progression after the first two (or so) runs. But maybe I would if things changed a bit.

[xzar_monty]

That's exactly it. And as I tend to view CRPGs as interactive movies/books of sorts, I tend to lose interest in the game as I lose interest in the story.

 

I can understand the allure of powergaming and all the rest of it, but I've never really got interested in it. (Even when we're playing PnP's with our decades-old group, I'm generally the person least interested in loot and most interested in the story. Even my attempt at a classic dwarf didn't really work in the boy-am-I-hungry-for-gold sense, a few years ago.)

Edited March 15, 2019 by xzar_monty

[RedKnight]

 

Frankly it just sounds like Deadfire is not the right game for OP.  The game has taken a very specific approach to its loot system, and (in my opinion) it does it very well in the context of what it is trying to achieve.  It sounds like there are just unavoidable differences in how Deadfire has been (deliberately) designed and what OP wants.  That's not the game's fault and nor is it OPs - just means the game is not a good fit.

 

A few points:

• Deadfire has not been designed around a linear loot progression system.  Loot that you acquire in the "end game" is not necessarily better than loot that you acquire early.
• For the most part, all loot in the game has been designed so that, with the right set-up, it will can be effective. 
• This is not to say that loot is useless.  In many cases loot can be build-defining (as evidenced through the many builds posted on these forums that are built around very specific items).  It is just a matter of finding the right combinations and experimenting with new set-ups, which the game strongly encourages.
• There is a strong argument that this increases the game's longevity.  There is a reason people still theory-craft new builds on these forums almost a year after the game was released, compared with other RPGs that are not as well balanced where people have figured out the most optimum builds within the first month, removing a large reason to keep re-playing the game.
• The developers have tried to avoid designing items that just give flat bonuses to stats.  You won't find many items that just give +5 to stats like you might in some other RPGs.  A lot of unique are situationally beneficially, designed to be built around, or require some cost/benefit analysis to get the most use out of.  There is, however, enough variety in the loot that you should be able to find an item that works well regardless of your build.

I guess in summary if you want a game where you get a +1 sword in Act 1, a +2 sword in Act 2, and so on, then Deadfire is not for you.

 

If you want a game that encourages multiple playthroughs, rewards creativity, and where there is no one clear "optimum" set-up, then Deadfire does that really well.

 

Very nice post.

 

Actually I think you are stretching it a bit. Namely, as I said multiple times I do love the game, so I really fail to see how you reached the conclusion that the game is not for me. I genuinly think it's one of the best RPGs I ever played. There are huge issues however in regards to loot and unbalanced difficulty, since the game is generally waaaaaaay too easy. I also think that you gain levels way too fast and I really don't like the new floaty mechanics in combat where both the enemies and your own allies can push your characters away just by running into you - thus screwing up your initial formation. I also wish the areas were a bit bigger, especially when it comes to dungeons. And I really think Obsidian should patch the game already to fix some of the bugs that have been out since the game came out.

 

In regards to story, immersion, exploration, choices and consequences, story-book parts, NPC reactivity, quest design, puzzles and roleplaying options, I truly think this is one of the best RPGs ever made.

 

With that being said, you are absolutely right that I come with a completely different mindset from the sophistry spin-doctor guy - as I pointed out on numerous occasions already and which he decided to interpret in the most uncharitable way possible.

Edited March 15, 2019 by RedKnight

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

I find itemization also rather unsatisfying. Telling how an item will work out is hard since it rarely comes down to a simple inequality. In DND you have the simple +N system for weapons and armors which gives you a simple mean to recognize the quality of a weapon. This is somewhat lost in PoE II since you can raise the enchantment of most unique weapons. Also the side effects are often circumstantial and intricate in design making it very hard to tell how it will work out without actually testing it. 

 

I don't know how some people get all their knowledge about the mechanics, but i certainly have not such an understanding, even after finishing PoE II twice. Perhaps the system is more rewarding and fun if you like tinkering and testing, but one can find the system rather cumbersome and irritating if you are not that invested in the mechanics. I prefer a more straightforward system with linearity and some side effects which are clear cut. BG1/2 and IWD1/2 did that well in my opinion.

 

I think this also creates the feeling that there are no great items in the game, since there is rarely a clear cut improvement going from one unique magical item to the next. I miss that in PoE II but i would not say that one approach is better than the other, it mostly depends on personal preference and expectation.

Perhaps a solution can be found that satisfies both ends of the spectrum in PoE III.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

It looks like OP wants gear useful only for tank. Disengagement immunitie useless, perception immunitie useless, might immunities worthless... My last char wears Skaen Robe, solo PotD +DD. Guess I am doing something wrong...

 

Affliction immunities are never useless.  I will say that I'm not so sure about having a disengagement immunity (or was it just a very high disengagement defense bonus?) on heavy armor doesn't strike me as the most  valuable thing going.  Not that there's anything wrong with disengagement buffs.  It just seems to me that a disengagement buff would be more valuable for someone wearing light or perhaps medium armor, rather than heavy armor.

 

I have some problems with the loot/booty in a very different way.  I have to admit that I kind of like the old school paradigms or tropes when it comes to fantasy stories and games.  And that carries over into items in the game for me.  I wish that there were more items that seemed aimed at different types of characters.  Not exactly specific classes, but did play to the tropes.  Such as staffs that feel like they're wizard staffs.  Or robes that felt like robes for, well, mostly wizards.  I suppose that one could argue that the Chromatic Staff is sorta-kinda a wizardly staff, but to me, not enough.  If it was a true wizardly staff, it should probably have the skill  that buffs up certain staff abilities be Arcana rather than Metaphysics.  

 

Also, a number of the proc'd special abilities seem to be a bit too corner cased and difficult to use.  Like the "True Love's Kiss" dagger which has its special proc'ing on stealth attacks, which basically means you can only use it once per encounter, and only if you have exceptional Stealth.  I think that it would have been better if the special was more like other specials where the size of the buff increased with the value of the skill.  At least this way, you don't end up with an exceptionally narrow set of circumstances where the ability can proc.

 

And honestly, I don't really like all the item upgrades.  I wish that the devs had spent that time and effort on creating additional unique weapons, armor, and shields, particularly weapons in types that are rather short in numbers.

 

 

I could be wrong too but the Lover's Kiss is kind of built for a Roque so not sure I agree totally with your post... playing an assassin there is numerous ways to go back into stealth and backstab and potentially get the added bonuses from the dagger ... unless I am totally wrong what it means by stealth, and haven't tested but it could also stack with raw damage you are already doing as a Rogue with Deep Wounds

 

Here is where I think the upgrades really shine ... it allows you to adapt the item to your playstyle, and character.  I think the difference between POE and say old school D&D fantasy tropes, is that POE is even more nuanced for certain builds and characters - its actually the exact opposite of not having unique items for characters, they are just not as general.

 

As for why I like stripped down weapons and stat buffs ... it makes you not rely on weapons and stat buffs - plus I think I dig crafting weapons, which I am just realizing now.

 

Edit:

 

Someone beat me to the punch ...

Edited March 15, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[bringingyouthefuture]

I am not sure where people get the unbalanced for this game either ... there is numerous options to up difficulty and lower experience, there is a ton of extra challenges built into the game, and I do think if you can't find away to make the game more difficult for yourself (Im not talking about playing without armor or swords) than you aren't trying to find ways to challenge yourself.

 

I like the push mechanic - it is awesome when a giant pushes his way through his companions to kill you, it makes my heart feel like all is correct in the world.  Also, with a little care I have found you rarely need to worry about your character pushing you out of the way for disengagement ... but I kind of dig chaos on the battle field like that, makes it more realistic ... whoops I accidentally swung my sword and killed Timmy!!! 

[Boeroer]

True Lover's Kiss actually doesn't work from invisibility, only stealth. No idea if bug or intended.

 

Pushing was mainly done to prevent chars from getting stuck and to improve pathfinding I guess. Instead of taking a huge detour you can push a little and take the direct route. I like it.

 

I come with a completely different mindset from the sophistry spin-doctor guy

That's fairly obvious and I think nobody doubts that. Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[Crucis]

 

 

It looks like OP wants gear useful only for tank. Disengagement immunitie useless, perception immunitie useless, might immunities worthless... My last char wears Skaen Robe, solo PotD +DD. Guess I am doing something wrong...

 

Affliction immunities are never useless.  I will say that I'm not so sure about having a disengagement immunity (or was it just a very high disengagement defense bonus?) on heavy armor doesn't strike me as the most  valuable thing going.  Not that there's anything wrong with disengagement buffs.  It just seems to me that a disengagement buff would be more valuable for someone wearing light or perhaps medium armor, rather than heavy armor.

 

I have some problems with the loot/booty in a very different way.  I have to admit that I kind of like the old school paradigms or tropes when it comes to fantasy stories and games.  And that carries over into items in the game for me.  I wish that there were more items that seemed aimed at different types of characters.  Not exactly specific classes, but did play to the tropes.  Such as staffs that feel like they're wizard staffs.  Or robes that felt like robes for, well, mostly wizards.  I suppose that one could argue that the Chromatic Staff is sorta-kinda a wizardly staff, but to me, not enough.  If it was a true wizardly staff, it should probably have the skill  that buffs up certain staff abilities be Arcana rather than Metaphysics.  

 

Also, a number of the proc'd special abilities seem to be a bit too corner cased and difficult to use.  Like the "True Love's Kiss" dagger which has its special proc'ing on stealth attacks, which basically means you can only use it once per encounter, and only if you have exceptional Stealth.  I think that it would have been better if the special was more like other specials where the size of the buff increased with the value of the skill.  At least this way, you don't end up with an exceptionally narrow set of circumstances where the ability can proc.

 

And honestly, I don't really like all the item upgrades.  I wish that the devs had spent that time and effort on creating additional unique weapons, armor, and shields, particularly weapons in types that are rather short in numbers.

 

 

I could be wrong too but the Lover's Kiss is kind of built for a Roque so not sure I agree totally with your post... playing an assassin there is numerous ways to go back into stealth and backstab and potentially get the added bonuses from the dagger ... unless I am totally wrong what it means by stealth, and haven't tested but it could also stack with raw damage you are already doing as a Rogue with Deep Wounds

 

Here is where I think the upgrades really shine ... it allows you to adapt the item to your playstyle, and character.  I think the difference between POE and say old school D&D fantasy tropes, is that POE is even more nuanced for certain builds and characters - its actually the exact opposite of not having unique items for characters, they are just not as general.

 

As for why I like stripped down weapons and stat buffs ... it makes you not rely on weapons and stat buffs - plus I think I dig crafting weapons, which I am just realizing now.

 

 

Dude, this dagger may be great for Assassin builds, but that's only a tiny percentage of all possible builds in this game.  And when there are only 2 unique daggers plus one soul-bound dagger (with limited class options), to me, this absolutely SCREAMS bad.  It's really stupid in my opinion to have such narrow usage weapons when there are so few to choose from in that specific type of weapon (in this case, daggers).

 

As for upgrades, I don't care about them because I would VASTLY prefer to have more unique weapons (and all items) in the game, rather than a smaller number with upgrades.  To me, the upgrades only served to require time, money, and other resources that could have been (IMO) better spent on creating additional items, particularly in those item types that are currently low in number.