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Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

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Okay, so started up a new game and am doing quite a bit better. Helps that my build is better, I actually bothered to put points in Dex this time around so my crossbow isn't garbage. I swapped out Abyssal for Infernal Bloodline because I didn't even notice Infernal was a thing before, and now I've stopped pretending I'm playing an enchanting summoner, so I just blast fools when fools need blasting.

 

Well the rule of thumb is that at character creation one should if at all possible strive for at least 14 in Dexterity so as to get the AC bonus from that.


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"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.”

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

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"Always write angry letters to your enemies. Never mail them."

 

-James Fallows

 

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Okay, so started up a new game and am doing quite a bit better. Helps that my build is better, I actually bothered to put points in Dex this time around so my crossbow isn't garbage. I swapped out Abyssal for Infernal Bloodline because I didn't even notice Infernal was a thing before, and now I've stopped pretending I'm playing an enchanting summoner, so I just blast fools when fools need blasting.

Well the rule of thumb is that at character creation one should if at all possible strive for at least 14 in Dexterity so as to get the AC bonus from that.
As well as improving your initiative.

 

It's also true of Constitution if you're a squishy (1d6).

Edited by Vitalis
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Okay, so started up a new game and am doing quite a bit better. Helps that my build is better, I actually bothered to put points in Dex this time around so my crossbow isn't garbage. I swapped out Abyssal for Infernal Bloodline because I didn't even notice Infernal was a thing before, and now I've stopped pretending I'm playing an enchanting summoner, so I just blast fools when fools need blasting.

 

Well the rule of thumb is that at character creation one should if at all possible strive for at least 14 in Dexterity so as to get the AC bonus from that.

 

dex is a great defensive ability score. unfortunately, it is almost universal a bad idea to build a dex-based combatant. however, if kingmaker plays similar to pnp pathfinder, o' the given available classes, the archer inquisitor is your bestest option for a high dex, ranged combatant. for almost all pathfinder builds, ranged weapons can't keep pace with melee and dex melee is always inferior for damage output compared to str builds.  archer inquisitor is a notable exception to general rules as most o' its damage potential is resulting from class abilities which ain't complete nullified vs. boss critters and whatnot.  kingmaker inquisitor is possible even better than pnp as the skill list is reduced in the crpg: a 14 int human inquisitor will be able to get virtual all the lore, knowledge and talky skills in addition to athletics and persuasion.

 

with kingmaker point-buy, an archer inquisitor with a starting dex o' 17 or 18 is highly effective in combat and is a good choice for rp oriented folks.

 

am suspecting a few folks will be unfamiliar with inquisitors. is not a d&d class. 

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gFK_A8YV84hMUMXjxvCLFTnGO2GF7CMQiGIYyAQ2kns/edit#

 

apologies as the linked is slightly dated and a bit o' a long read.

 

haven't looked at the kingmaker feedback at other sites, but am gonna assume the inquisitor option is being overlooked.  

 

HA! Good fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Well to roughly quote Barbossa I suppose it's more a "guideline" rather than "rule". Certainly for classes that have to spread out points across multiple ability scores like a Cleric to get the most out of I've had to settle for a Dex score at 12. About the only thing I would say there ought to be zero compromise is to have at character creation enough Int to get all the skills you want for the length of the game.


Quote
"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.”

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

Quote
"Always write angry letters to your enemies. Never mail them."

 

-James Fallows

 

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So does Dex in Pathfinder work the same way as in NWN/NWN2 - only applies to the attack bonus if you've got weapon finesse and are using a light weapon, no increase to damage? Are there no feats that let you add Dex to damage? That was always one of the silly things about the NWN games.

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Managed to play for a few hours yesterday. I really liked the intro where they decide to join you or not depending on how you've acted.

 

I like some of the weather effects. I really like that my guy actually has a RUCK SACK on!!! This might be the first time I've ever seen that in an RPG. Well done.

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nowt

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So does Dex in Pathfinder work the same way as in NWN/NWN2 - only applies to the attack bonus if you've got weapon finesse and are using a light weapon, no increase to damage? Are there no feats that let you add Dex to damage? That was always one of the silly things about the NWN games.

 

Dex adds to AC, Initiative, ranged attack roles and melee attack roles if you have Weapon Finesse  - Note, all Rogues automatically get Weapon Finesse at 1st level.

There are several feats / class abilities that allow you to apply Dex bonus to melee weapons.  Notablly the Rogue's Finesse training, and off the top of my head there is the Slashing Grace feat (which allows you to select any one slashing weapon of suitable size).

 

Also, not as reliable and requires you to find them, there are weapons with the Agile enchantment which does the same.

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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I ran around the map grinding random encounters, then went back to the area I was having trouble at. Fought a few things I thought would be too strong, found they weren't, and eventually hit level 3. And then ended up in a place that rounded out my party to 6.

 

Let's do this!

 

Only downside is I don't have enough rations to rest inside a dungeon.

The rations bit is whats killing the game for me. 

 

It's silly, but IIRC that's a feature of Pathfinder, not the developer's idea. I don't like it too, just like I didn't like Camping Supplies in first Pillars (although if I had to compare, this one is much better).

 

EDIT: I've read somewhere that supplies in actual Pathfinder have 90% less weight!

Edited by Manveru123

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I love the fact that most stuff you put on your belt bar are actually appearing on the belt of your character model, like potions and such. Oddly enough, Alchemist's Fire doesn't, for instance, at least not for me, but it's still a neat little feature.

 

EDIT: I just discovered something that I really wished Deadfire had. P:KM comes with Cloud Saves, so now I can play the game on my laptop as well while on the move.

Great! :)

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I love the fact that most stuff you put on your belt bar are actually appearing on the belt of your character model, like potions and such.

 

Huh. I didn't notice that, aside from lanterns. Nice.

 

Can't say much about mechanics because I'm a filthy casual and play on easy to avoid frustration, but I'm really liking the overall feel of the game so far. It's like I'm playing BG1 with better graphics and more extensive dialogue trees. The story is fairly simple, sometimes even silly, but in a good way. And there are so many areas to explore with fun stuff happening in them, stuff that doesn't even reckord in the questlog, it's just various scenes and encounters. 

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So to respond to the initial statement in this post and having actually got through Act 1, I'm inclined to hazard a guess that the game has more playtime because you spend an inordinate amount of time getting from a to b, having to rest what feels like every 30 secs on the world map, dungeons being designed to force you to walk around them multiple times at Deadfire slogeffect pace, wasting time on unwinnable fights or fights that force you to traipse back to the trading post, etc.

I'm enjoying the game (after cranking the difficulty down), but I don't think I've ever played a game where I spent so much of my time just sitting there staring at the screen. If you thought sailing was a bore in Deadfire, wait till you have to navigate the world map in Kingmaker. Also, they advertise resting as being interesting due to convos, but you get one short banter per rest, and only if you aren't resting from the world map. Plus the companions complain they are tired and then go off to hunt for up to 18! hrs even if you are lugging around a ton of ingredients, so you aren't so much kipping in a tent, you're undertaking a survival weekend in the wilderness xD.


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So does Dex in Pathfinder work the same way as in NWN/NWN2 - only applies to the attack bonus if you've got weapon finesse and are using a light weapon, no increase to damage? Are there no feats that let you add Dex to damage? That was always one of the silly things about the NWN games.

 

Dex adds to AC, Initiative, ranged attack roles and melee attack roles if you have Weapon Finesse  - Note, all Rogues automatically get Weapon Finesse at 1st level.

There are several feats / class abilities that allow you to apply Dex bonus to melee weapons.  Notablly the Rogue's Finesse training, and off the top of my head there is the Slashing Grace feat (which allows you to select any one slashing weapon of suitable size).

 

Also, not as reliable and requires you to find them, there are weapons with the Agile enchantment which does the same.

 

 

Yup, works fine for my thief/fighter with bastard sword:

 

http://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Slashing%20Grace


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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It was basically designed for all those folks that wanted to go into the Duelist prestige class but preferred using scimitars or the like to pointy-stabby rapiers.  ;)


"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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quite contrary, its for those who dont like pointy weapons but still want to benefit from dex instead of STR - eg. ME :)


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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After last update (not sure if related) I am unnable to hire more companions and I am unnable to ender Technic league camp...


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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After last update (not sure if related) I am unnable to hire more companions and I am unnable to ender Technic league camp...

 Lots of ppl complaining about the hiring issue on Steam.


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ffs, curse auto updates


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Just finished chapter 2 and I have to say the stats in this game is load of rubbish,

 

The boss of chapter 2 in pnp only deals 2d6+9 damage, with a +16 to hit,CR 8.

 

The boss here does 2d6+25(or more, cant remember the exact number) damage, with a +27 to hit, and has a 31 ac kobolds helping him. Even on story mode he can destroy your 32AC tank in three rounds.

 

Who thinks this kind of stats bloating is a good idea for a game based on pathfinder system?

Edited by jf8350143

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I'm getting pretty concerned about that. With them inflating encounters, I'm kind of concerned I'll be fighting a final boss that requires +4 weapons to-hit with a party where half of them only have +3. (or worse, one of the companions uses a bleeding scythe, what are the chances I'll find an upgrade for that?) And I'll need to be intimately familiar with what are the best buffs on the cleric and have my Sorcerer focus on all the exact dispelling spells to overcome protections.

 

Always a problem I ran into with the final bosses in Baldur's Gate games. I think the only time I didn't have to cheese or cheat was my second playthrough of Shadows of Amn.


"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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Also the no hunting in dungeon so you can't rest unless you bring rations with you(which is heavy as hell) is god awful design as well. All it did was making me walking all the way from the front door of the boss, to the entrance of the dungeon, rest and walks back to fight the boss. It's like 10 minutes of the characters slowly walking around, while me playing with my cell phone.

 

Seriously, I like this game, it has huge potential, but some of the design choices are killing my mood.

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Just finished chapter 2 and I have to say the stats in this game is load of rubbish,

 

The boss of chapter 2 in pnp only deals 2d6+9 damage, with a +16 to hit.

 

The boss here does 2d6+25(or more, cant remember the exact number), with a +27 to hit, and has a 31 ac kobolds helping him. Even on story mode he can destroy your 32AC tank in three rounds.

 

Who thinks this kind of stats bloating is a good idea for a game based on pathfinder system?

am not certain what difficulty you are playing, but it is a good idea.  crpg, particular with reload, is a whole different animal than pnp.  a living dm may adjust difficulty as needed.  a living dm is gonna play the boss battle smarter than computer ai. etc. if kingmaker encounters were same as pnp, there would be widespread complaints o' game ease. 

 

does owlcat need adjust the difficulty o' a few encounters?  yes. definitely.  even so, am thinking compare to pnp stats is not a valid comparison.  when happs bydon attacks the trading post at start o' the game, he should have a group o' three bandits with him and he has a mere 11hp.  using pnp stats, the first post tutorial noteworthy encounter would be over before the player even had a chance to draw weapons as the four bandits would likely be dead with the initial alchemist fire blast.

 

ain't fair to compare to pnp.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
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"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Just finished chapter 2 and I have to say the stats in this game is load of rubbish,

 

The boss of chapter 2 in pnp only deals 2d6+9 damage, with a +16 to hit.

 

The boss here does 2d6+25(or more, cant remember the exact number), with a +27 to hit, and has a 31 ac kobolds helping him. Even on story mode he can destroy your 32AC tank in three rounds.

 

Who thinks this kind of stats bloating is a good idea for a game based on pathfinder system?

am not certain what difficulty you are playing, but it is a good idea.  crpg, particular with reload, is a whole different animal than pnp.  a living dm may adjust difficulty as needed.  a living dm is gonna play the boss battle smarter than computer ai. etc. if kingmaker encounters were same as pnp, there would be widespread complaints o' game ease. 

 

does owlcat need adjust the difficulty o' a few encounters?  yes. definitely.  even so, am thinking compare to pnp stats is not a valid comparison.  when happs bydon attacks the trading post at start o' the game, he should have a group o' three bandits with him and he has a mere 11hp.  using pnp stats, the first post tutorial noteworthy encounter would be over before the player even had a chance to draw weapons as the four bandits would likely be dead with the initial alchemist fire blast.

 

ain't fair to compare to pnp.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Yes, DM is gonna player the game smarter than AI, that's why you need to adjust the difficult accordingly when it comes to PC.

 

But simply giving every enemy bigger numbers is just lazy and probably the most boring way to do it. Bandits with 30+AC at level 5 or 6 sure make the encounter harder, but not in a challenging way. Give them new abilities, have more different kind of enemies, not some bandits whose only trick is auto attack and only hard because the devs give them 10 extra AC and AB.

 

Also the game has tons of difficult settings, you can even make enemy only does 20% of the damage, but none of them allow you to set the stats back to normal. Even on easiest difficulty the enemy still has huge boosts comparing to their pnp counter parts.

Edited by jf8350143

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Just finished chapter 2 and I have to say the stats in this game is load of rubbish,

 

The boss of chapter 2 in pnp only deals 2d6+9 damage, with a +16 to hit.

 

The boss here does 2d6+25(or more, cant remember the exact number), with a +27 to hit, and has a 31 ac kobolds helping him. Even on story mode he can destroy your 32AC tank in three rounds.

 

Who thinks this kind of stats bloating is a good idea for a game based on pathfinder system?

am not certain what difficulty you are playing, but it is a good idea.  crpg, particular with reload, is a whole different animal than pnp.  a living dm may adjust difficulty as needed.  a living dm is gonna play the boss battle smarter than computer ai. etc. if kingmaker encounters were same as pnp, there would be widespread complaints o' game ease. 

 

does owlcat need adjust the difficulty o' a few encounters?  yes. definitely.  even so, am thinking compare to pnp stats is not a valid comparison.  when happs bydon attacks the trading post at start o' the game, he should have a group o' three bandits with him and he has a mere 11hp.  using pnp stats, the first post tutorial noteworthy encounter would be over before the player even had a chance to draw weapons as the four bandits would likely be dead with the initial alchemist fire blast.

 

ain't fair to compare to pnp.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Yes, DM is gonna player the game smarter than AI, that's why you need to adjust the difficult accordingly when it comes to PC.

 

But simply giving every enemy bigger numbers is just lazy and probably the most boring way to do it. Bandits with 30+AC at level 5 or 6 sure make the encounter harder, but not in a challenging way. Give them new abilities, have more different kind of enemies, not some bandits whose only trick is auto attack and only hard because the devs give them 10 extra AC and AB.

 

it's a big game.  easiest way to make an encounter more difficult is to add enemies and boost stats.  suggest there is better ways to make encounters more challenging is axiomatic, but am doubtful it is a practical solution given the number o' encounters which would need be fine tuned... and genuine smart enemies is gonna be even more frustrating for players than is buffed foes.  the player has access to potions and scrolls and is possibly playing a party o' six when the pathfinder adventure paths is balanced for a party o' four.  player gots advantages to deal with mob and stat bloat o' foes.  but smarter?  look on this board alone and see how many folks is familiar with pathfinder take on d20?  you got a large % o' players unfamiliar with a rule system.  so give 'em bg kinda straightforward encounters makes sense... since bg and the like is where many o' your fans is coming.

 

as to dex-based characters competing with str...

 

doesn't actual work out the way chill and others suggest.  to benefit from slashing grace and/or similar such, the player need wield a one-hand weapon with a single hand to gain benefits and cannot use with flurry and whatnot.  so compare to a str focused character who is wielding a big base damage or high crit weapon with two hands and getting 1.5x str.  the dex-focused player loses sooner rather than later when comparing damage output.  is a flaw in the system, made worse with ranged.  

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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"After last update (not sure if related) I am unnable to hire more companions"

 

This made me stop playing last night. Pure bullcrap. How do you break this when it was working fine previously. What thing did you change to ruin this likely simple script. LMAO

 

The game - on the surface e- looks like an awesomesauce BG series redux with some TOEE/NWN thrown in but they are fubaring it with some asanine development. COME ON.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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