[CLASS BUILD & MECHANICS 101] Let's learn with Umezawa! (Streetfighter/Wael)

[thelee]

People calling magic cards that weren't around when I played it nostalgic makes me feel old.

 

When I started writing this and was trying to find a picture of Umezawa's Jitte, what made me feel old was realizing that a set that still felt relatively recent to me was actually literally more than a decade old.

[Boeroer]

 

 

Miscreant's Leather comes with a special enchantment that reduces recovery time by -10%. Theoretically, this was supposed to have the net effect of mitigating a majority(*) of the of the +20% light armor recovery time. However, with the cosmo pirate pig, your base armor recovery time penalty is +7%, which means the -10% recovery time enchantment makes wearing Miscreant's Leather actually faster than wearing any +0% recovery time clothing.

 

Are you sure that it's not capped? Even in PoE you couldn't reduce armor penalty below zero so that it (theoretically) would become a speed bonus.

[Arddv]

Armor penalty reduction is capped, but -% recovery enchatments do not affect armor penalty, but instead are independant modifiers that influence recovery on their own.

[Boeroer]

Yeees - but Cutthoat Cosmo is lowering your armor penalty - it's not giving you an recovery bonus, am I right?

 

Ach wait - now I got it. Cosmo reduces armor penalty so that the leather's enchantment is higher than your actual armor penalty. I made a mistake and thought that the enchantment of the leather was also lowering recovery penalty (like Armored Grace) instead of giving you an actual recovery bonus. :oops:

 

Ok, then what's the math when you use the Devil of Caroc's Breastplate? If I recall correctly it has a 20% recovery bonus but has +40% penalty. Cosmo reduces the penalty of thicker armors by a greater margin than light ones'...? 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

I think that's 10% Recovery bonus on DoC BP post 1.1. Armor penalty for breastplates was.. 35?

[AeonsLegend]

 

People calling magic cards that weren't around when I played it nostalgic makes me feel old.

 

When I started writing this and was trying to find a picture of Umezawa's Jitte, what made me feel old was realizing that a set that still felt relatively recent to me was actually literally more than a decade old.

 

It's a bit off topic, but I started playing with Unlimited edition. Most of my time was spend with revised. I played a little with 4th edition, but stopped before 5th. I still have all my cards, also got some beta cards.

[AndreaColombo]

Going by memory, DoC with Armored Grace and Cutthroat Cosmo has 6% recovery penalty left.

 

Articulated was nerfed from 20% to 10% which I’m so NOT bitter about.

[thelee]

 

 

People calling magic cards that weren't around when I played it nostalgic makes me feel old.

 

When I started writing this and was trying to find a picture of Umezawa's Jitte, what made me feel old was realizing that a set that still felt relatively recent to me was actually literally more than a decade old.

 

It's a bit off topic, but I started playing with Unlimited edition. Most of my time was spend with revised. I played a little with 4th edition, but stopped before 5th. I still have all my cards, also got some beta cards.

 

 

So I'm guessing at this point your cards are like your retirement plan?

[thelee]

 

Miscreant's Leather comes with a special enchantment that reduces recovery time by -10%. Theoretically, this was supposed to have the net effect of mitigating a majority(*) of the of the +20% light armor recovery time. However, with the cosmo pirate pig, your base armor recovery time penalty is +7%, which means the -10% recovery time enchantment makes wearing Miscreant's Leather actually faster than wearing any +0% recovery time clothing.

 

Are you sure that it's not capped? Even in PoE you couldn't reduce armor penalty below zero so that it (theoretically) would become a speed bonus.

 

 

Arddv got to the answer before me. AFAICT anything that actually reduces armor penalty itself actually modifies the armor recovery time penalty you see on recovery time tooltips. For Miscreant's Leather (and DoC iirc, and there's another light armor that has a -5% recovery time bonus iirc) the recovery time bonus is a separate adjustment.

 

You could also verify this by equipping Miscreants Leather with a cosmo and then comparing with like a Robe. Your recovery time is definitely lower with the miscreants+cosmo than with simple robe.

Edited June 25, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

I guess the best way to check it would be to bomb your own party members, to see if the damage from the log and the missing HP on the target are the same. After seeing how Recall Agony works, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't shown in log at all.

 

So I did these test and can verify that this is actually just a display bug in the combat log. Even though explosives damage is marked as "(Deathblows)" in the combat log, there is no extra damage from Deathblows, whether applied invisibly to the base damage (like power level/explosives skill scaling) or as a hidden extra effect not in the combat log (like Recall Agony).

 

On the plus side, while testing this, I did discover that weapon procs are buffed by sneak attack/deathblows. I updated the guide to reflect these changes. Thanks for drawing attention to the explosives/deathblows interaction to me! I tried to make sure everything I wrote in the guide was backed up by real-world tests, and the explosives/deathblows was one of those things where I just saw it in the combat log and assumed it was working the way it said. Oh well, you know what they say when you assume...

[Archaven]

omg is this a walkthrough? but anyway props to you in putting so much effort in writing this

[Yougottawanna]

I like the flavor of dual wielding melee/blunderbuss, but I can't always figure out how you get the blunderbuss to reload when it's in your offhand until you actually start to shoot again. Like I'll melee until powder burns wears off, then what I'd like to do is use escape, reload the blunderbuss, shoot, then go back to melee. But I escape and stand still and the blunderbuss won't actually start reloading until I try to shoot and the enemy is in range again. I'm using a lone blunderbuss as a weapon switch right now - switching to that will start the reload even if no enemies are nearby, but that means I have to wait for the weapon switch and then switch back to have melee again. Is there any way to tell my character "reload your gun now"?

[thelee]

I like the flavor of dual wielding melee/blunderbuss, but I can't always figure out how you get the blunderbuss to reload when it's in your offhand until you actually start to shoot again. Like I'll melee until powder burns wears off, then what I'd like to do is use escape, reload the blunderbuss, shoot, then go back to melee. But I escape and stand still and the blunderbuss won't actually start reloading until I try to shoot and the enemy is in range again. I'm using a lone blunderbuss as a weapon switch right now - switching to that will start the reload even if no enemies are nearby, but that means I have to wait for the weapon switch and then switch back to have melee again. Is there any way to tell my character "reload your gun now"?

 

yeah, i don't think there's a way other than "try to shoot again", which means telling your character to attack someone at range.

 

what you would do in this situation is.

 

1. blunderbuss.

2. run into melee for a a bit

3. either escape or run away

4. immediately tell your character to attack a target

5. hopefully you are already in range to start shooting again. your character will instead start reloading. rinse and repeat.

 

once you get the hang of it, you can eyeball the appropriate distance to trigger a ranged attack at step #4 and you can position yourself correctly at #3.

[thelee]

I've partially updated this guide for 1.2.

 

Unfortunately the consumables changes for 1.2 has hit this build a bit, as Potion of Deftness, Deadeye, and Potion of Impediment have all gotten weaker by large margins, and Sparkcrackers by a smaller margin.

 

Most of the 1.2 changes this build will take in stride, thanks in part to Salvation of Time (even the nerfed 30% chance of interrupt from Potion of Impediment when you're attacking almost every second is still good), but it does mean that there may be a different optimal stat distribution (e.g. take away the 7 points of resolve and give it to perception). I'll fully update the guide eventually (this is still the most fun I've had with a build), but I'm going to wait for a little bit longer for further balance changes before going with another run of this build.

 

Also, SORRY GUYS. I actually tweeted at Josh Sawyer shortly after 1.1 that they should consider nerfing potion of impediment, and he liked my tweet, so I feel like I am partially responsible for the consumables nerf.

Edited July 3, 2018 by thelee

[knownastherat]

I am sorry but .. lol .. though don't worry about it, there is enough self-appointed balancers around here. 

[Boeroer]

You shouldn't be sorry. They needed a nerf badly. Same as scrolls.

[knownastherat]

You still don't get it, do you? It's not about whether "something needs to be nerfed or not" (because who is to say? you? on what authority?) it's about imposing own ideas on others. Apparently, a good number of people, perhaps majority, have a little problem, if any, with imposing on others when calling for nerfs: Make the game according to my liking!  or softer, more dishonest, version: I think the game would be better if it was made according to my liking.

 

So now you think, knownastherat is wrong because the developers expect and appreciate our feedback, right? Perhaps they do, but it changes nothing about imposing,  to establish or bring about as if by force, own views on others where developers act as a proxy. 

 

And now you think, knownastherat is delusional because that is how society works, (vocal)majority imposes own views on (silent)minority, right? Yes, but it does not make it right. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by knownastherat

[thelee]

You shouldn't be sorry. They needed a nerf badly. Same as scrolls.

 

I was only being tongue-in-cheek sorry . I tweeted at JE Sawyer because I truly believed Potion of Impediment in particular was horribly broken. Bu yeah, scrolls in particular seemed to me a worst offender (an early potd run I randomly gave pallegina arcana and mid-high end scrolls and proceeded to later drop my jaw when she cleared an entire fight with just like two scrolls; ~ +20PL on already good effects, come on!).

 

I think an interesting thing the nerf revealed is previously to what extent this build leaned on deadeye and potion of deftness for its accuracy bonus, especially for self-sparkcrackers. It's probably for the best that consumables can't be such a crutch now, but it will be an interesting exercise soon to retune the stats on this build a bit (particularly for early game).

[Boeroer]

Yeah - sometimes it's even fun to use such stuff. Like I really liked my scroll abusing rogue in PoE (Deathblows + Maelstrom, Deep Wounds + Concussive Missiles... whew). But overall I think it's best for the game and the majority of players if scrolls and potions are not outshining everything you can achieve with actual abilities.

 

It just feels so cheap to "buy" all that power while building your character into another direction (for example build a supertank with zero offensive capability when it comes to abilities but then boost arcana and destroy everything with scrolls while you can't be scratched).

Edited July 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

Minor update: I re-tuned the stats after playing around with the early game and late game a bit on a test character. Basically dumping resolve in favor of perception and avoiding a might malus.

 

The overall 1.2 nerf makes this character a little bit more fragile; I even opt against using a Cloak of +7 Deflection mid-late game (preferring Nemnok's Cloak in end-game) just to make it easier to land Sparkcrackers on myself; all this means a net -15 deflection from 1.1 to 1.2 so expect to get hit a lot more. Plus Potions of the Final Stand last for way less time, and Barring Death's Door got hit with a nerfbat. Salvation of Time is still good (probably even better because getting +20s on even-shorter-duration effects is that much stronger).

 

So, a little bit more micromanagement-intensive, but still a fun, proactive way to do a stupid amount of sustained damage.

Edited July 4, 2018 by thelee

[Lótus Haddock]

One like only because you really put love in writing this guide.

[thelee]

For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).

Edited October 10, 2018 by thelee

[hansvedic]

For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).

 

Thanks for updating this awesome build!

 

I look forward to hearing about this other character, if you haven't already put it out there (have you?).

 

Also, have you considered using battle axes on this character? The modal, when used when you have the streetfighter recovery time bonus, allows you to inflict quite a few long-lasting bleeds (60s base, 10% of swing damage per 3 seconds). This might be useful for enemies that you need to outlast rather than kill quickly, especially given all the time you can spend untargetable or unkillable with stealthing abilities, Withdraw (Footprints of Ahu Taka perhaps for an extra cast), BDD, and Salvation of Time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[thelee]

 

For anyone who cares, I updated this to be more relevant in 3.0 (and also because I plan on referring to it for another character build/mechanics write up, so it seemed prudent for this to be up-to-date).

 

Thanks for updating this awesome build!

 

I look forward to hearing about this other character, if you haven't already put it out there (have you?).

 

Also, have you considered using battle axes on this character? The modal, when used when you have the streetfighter recovery time bonus, allows you to inflict quite a few long-lasting bleeds (60s base, 10% of swing damage per 3 seconds). This might be useful for enemies that you need to outlast rather than kill quickly, especially given all the time you can spend untargetable or unkillable with stealthing abilities, Withdraw (Footprints of Ahu Taka perhaps for an extra cast), BDD, and Salvation of Time. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

 

Thanks for the nice words!

 

No, I haven't written up the other build yet. It takes time and I don't have a lot of it these days

 

I actually do have another streetfighter variant (blackjacket + streetfighter) that does use axes. In general in my experience once a well-tuned streetfighter starts attacking an enemy that enemy is going to die soon, so you might not get as much out of the bleeding modal as you might hope. But you are right, with evasion abilities and especially on the survivor challenges in SSS there are so many bullet sponges that being able to stack lots of bleeding DoTs might be very helpful. (I did not actually get to try SSS with that other streetfighter variant because I was on Abydon's Challenge and starting to get really annoyed at having to repair everything so I just blitzed through the critical path.)

[colma86]

I’m trying this on my current run and really enjoy it, it’s a nice break from my usual contemplative go-to for a priest. Thanks for updating it.

 

I found it to be particularly hilarious when paired with a watershaper dumping foe-only chill fogs around.