Politics Thread - Ka-tet of 19

[HoonDing]

With Trump in charge America has been winning again at least, he's a pretty tough guy.

[ktchong]

Here is how I feel about immigration as a liberal:

 

 

Pro-immigration is NOT an issue that can win votes and elections for Democrats. On the other hand, anti-immigration is an issue that galvanizes and mobilizes the alt-right, (who has become the mainstream right.) Illegal immigration as an issue, on its own by itself, can win elections for Donald Trump and Republicans.

 

As a liberal who has never voted Republican, I actually do NOT support illegal immigrants, mass migration or open borders - I do not want any of those in my country. Helping migrants is NOT an issue that can motivate me or win my votes. If a Democratic candidate seemed to be supporting illegal immigrants, mass migration or open borders, and she did not offer any other appealing platforms, (like single-payer, student debt forgiveness, marijuana legalization, free public colleges or universities, etc.,) then I would rather sit out on the election, stay home to watch a TV show or play a video game, and just not vote. I am not going to vote just to give a path to citizenship to Dreamers, to abolish ICE and loosen our immigration enforcement or laws, or to allow more migrants into our country. I am just not. I suspect a lot of liberals and Democratic voters are in the same boat with me.

 

I can support a Democratic politician whose main focuses are issues that affect Americans, but I would NOT support a Democrat whose obsession is immigration, (like Antonio Villaraigosa, who seems to care only about Latino immigrants including illegal immigrants and has no appeal outside that base.) If a Democrat wants to get me excited, to get me out to vote, then she needs to talk about single-payer, universal healthcare, student debts, free public colleges or universities, marijuana legalization, ending the foreign intervention and wars, and ending the drug war. I can accept helping Dreamers, asylum seekers and migrant families as a "side issue". However, I would not bother to vote for someone who makes helping immigrants - especially illegal immigrants including Dreames - into her main issue. I do not mind helping immigrants or Dreamers; I just do not want them to be prioritized over Americans. I do not want them to become the primary issue for Democrats because most Americans do not vote to help foreigners and immigrants (especially illegal immigrants.)

 

I want to get rid of Trump, but we will lose if we continue to fight on his turf - i.e., illegal immigration - where he has huge advantages. Democrats need to move the fight to another turf. If we keep the fight on his turf, we will lose everything else. I do not want to lose everything else over some illegal immigrants and economic migrants who are not Americans and who are not even supposed to be here.

Edited June 26, 2018 by ktchong

[Lexx]

Well, last thing I've read was that due to him, american jobs are at risk... because Harley Davidson (and likely other companies, dunno) is planning to outsource production out of america due to the new tax crap that is going on.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Lexx

[Gfted1]

You mean they don't have them after Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq?

Nah, I think you have to have your country militarily occupied two or more times in under a century to qualify. But we can make an exception for the current qq generation that cant accept differing opinions.

[Malcador]

 

You mean they don't have them after Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq?

Nah, I think you have to have your country militarily occupied two or more times in under a century to qualify. But we can make an exception for the current qq generation that cant accept differing opinions.

 

That excludes France then, they've only really been occupied once I guess they get the heat for Vichy rather than being defeated by an armed force that beat everyone else though. Well, maybe that's assuming people even know about Vichy

[Gfted1]

Well, last thing I've read was that due to him, american jobs are at risk... because Harley Davidson (and likely other companies, dunno) is planning to outsource production out of america due to the new tax crap that is going on.

 

Empty threats amuse me. Trump will be gone in 3-7 years at which point ye ole pendulum swing will return tariffs to pre-Trump levels. Meanwhile, in the interest of "making a statement", Harley will incur gigantic expenses to create a new manufacturing facility in the EU. How long before Harley makes that investment back and then starts seeing a profit on it?

[HoonDing]

France needs another schizophrenic peasant girl to become great again.

[Gfted1]

That excludes France then, they've only really been occupied once I guess they get the heat for Vichy rather than being defeated by an armed force that beat everyone else though. Well, maybe that's assuming people even know about Vichy

 

German occupation of north-east France during World War I.

 

German military administration in occupied France during World War II.

 

Are you referring to?: Military battles of Vichy France.

[smjjames]

SCOTUS just upheld the travel ban in a 5-4 decision, http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/394143-supreme-court-upholds-trump-travel-ban Also, NUUUUUUU! Justice Kennedy voted to uphold the decision! /drama

[Malcador]

 

That excludes France then, they've only really been occupied once I guess they get the heat for Vichy rather than being defeated by an armed force that beat everyone else though. Well, maybe that's assuming people even know about Vichy

 

German occupation of north-east France during World War I.

 

German military administration in occupied France during World War II.

 

Are you referring to?: Military battles of Vichy France.

 

Okay, wasn't including partial occupation as opposed to a total defeat, seems a bit unfair to treat that as a point of ridicule as they were still fighting the invaders. Rather than defeat and then collaboration (which probably is the root of the derision, though maybe it mutated) And no, did not mean Vichy's military actions, was a joke on people not knowing things like that.

[HoonDing]

[Gfted1]

Okay, wasn't including partial occupation as opposed to a total defeat, seems a bit unfair to treat that as a point of ridicule as they were still fighting the invaders. Rather than defeat and then collaboration (which probably is the root of the derision, though maybe it mutated) And no, did not mean Vichy's military actions, was a joke on people not knowing things like that.

Yeah, the French get a bum rap. Until the 1900's they were a beast. Maybe its a play on the fact that France used a completely white flag for a little while?

[injurai]

That map just demonstrates how charitable Germany and Austria are, look at how much land they've given away.

[HoonDing]

Funny how they nabbed a huge chunk of Denmark too.

 

[Malcador]

TV series on that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_(TV_series)

 

I guess only Gorgon may have seen it.

[smjjames]

*spots Sharp_One*

 

He's probably gonna raeg about the Poland tri-partition there on that map.

[pmp10]

Pro-immigration is NOT an issue that can win votes and elections for Democrats.

Why?

Shouldn't children of immigrants naturally support Democrats?

Or at least vote against the party that would have their family deported?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You mean they don't have them after Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq?

France makes jokes about going on strike when someone gets fired until that person gets reinstated with backpay while Americans give their boss head and a $100 tip on the way out.

[Gfted1]

Shouldn't children of immigrants naturally support Democrats?

Or at least vote against the party that would have their family deported?

 

Right of foreigners to vote in the United States.

 

They cant vote unless they are citizens (well probably in CA they can ) and if they are citizens they wont be deported.

[Malcador]

 

Shouldn't children of immigrants naturally support Democrats?

Or at least vote against the party that would have their family deported?

 

Right of foreigners to vote in the United States.

 

They cant vote unless they are citizens (well probably in CA they can ) and if they are citizens they wont be deported.

 

Their families can be deported though, and they themselves can be citizens by birth.

[Gfted1]

Their families can be deported though, and they themselves can be citizens by birth.

 

But you have to be at least 18 to vote in the US. Assuming they, and their family, have been residing in the US for that long I would hope everyone would have had their paperwork together by that time. I suppose the child could be born, then the parents immediately deported, then the child strikes vengeance 18 years later against the political party that was in power during the parents deportation.

[Malcador]

That could work, sure a lot of ways a voter can have immigrant but non citizen parents. Or more likely people will suspect some sort of xenophobia at work (may or may not be true) and react against that.

[Gfted1]

I don't think an "immigrant" is supposed to float along indefinitely. Its a transitional period to becoming a citizen. At least Im not aware of anyplace where you can just immigrate to some country and then do nothing about citizenship and live there for the rest of your life.

[Malcador]

I don't think an "immigrant" is supposed to float along indefinitely. Its a transitional period to becoming a citizen. At least Im not aware of anyplace where you can just immigrate to some country and then do nothing about citizenship and live there for the rest of your life.

Depends on how they meant immigrant, I'm one but I am a citizen as well in that I wasn't born here. You can be a permanent resident in some countries, Canada is one, I think the US is similar with the green card program.

[Elerond]

I don't think an "immigrant" is supposed to float along indefinitely. Its a transitional period to becoming a citizen. At least Im not aware of anyplace where you can just immigrate to some country and then do nothing about citizenship and live there for the rest of your life.

 

Florida seems to be quite accepting towards retirees who get their pension from foreign pension funds. Like for example there are 25000 Finnish retirees with permament residence without need to seek USA citizenship (which would cut their right to get pension from Finland's pension funds). Of course such retairees are somewhat special case of immigrants as they not only bring money with them but also create local jobs.