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The Wheel.. did I miss something? (Ending spoilers)


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#1
Trogdor

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Alright, so big man Eothas destroys the machine that keeps the reincarnation process going. Why is this such a big deal? If the Wheel was constructed by Kith at one time, there must be a "natural" process that predates it. The Wheels only function seems to be to siphon off  a bit of soul energy for every cycle, keeping the gods alive.

 

However, the game multiple times avoids this rather obvious solution to the problem, so what gives? Did I miss something? Is the Wheel truly ancient, predating the Engwithans? In the quest where you grab Bekarna's research there are hints to the stars being a source of arcane energy, and the Circle seem to see some great significance in this.


Edited by Trogdor, 08 June 2018 - 10:17 PM.

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#2
Yria

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 No, you didn't miss anything, there is just not enough info to answer those questions with certainty.

 

You might want to check this thread, there are some theories here: https://forums.obsid...s-for-the-lore/



#3
Wormerine

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Bekarna’s research prepares for the reveal of the Wheel being in Deadfire. It is possible we will learn a bit more about it the 3 expansions, if it will continue this story thread. There is confusion regarding how life worked before the wheel was created by Engwith and what destrying of the wheel means for the future.
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#4
Not Hypebringer

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Just another proof that Engwithan were aliens.

BRB, gonna do Bekarna's quest, skipped it in first playthrough.


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#5
Wormerine

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Just another proof that Engwithan were aliens.

BRB, gonna do Bekarna's quest, skipped it in first playthrough.

It's more of a foreshadowing, rather than the explenation. Certainly the hook, from which 3rd expansion will continue.



#6
Karkarov

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The game ignores it because no one living in the game world has ever lived under any other system.  People are afraid of change, and this change is a pretty big one.  I agree however, if you take a step back and look at it from the big picture, clearly... the world will go on.  Probably without Watchers, awakened peoples, or gods though.



#7
Lokithecat

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You can allow (or support) Eothas in his rampage, the world doesn't end or anything after, the 'credits?' still talk about the future, and repercussions of your choices.



#8
wRAR

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You can allow (or support) Eothas in his rampage, the world doesn't end or anything after, the 'credits?' still talk about the future, and repercussions of your choices.

Sure, the world doesn't end immediately, but we don't know if the kith succeed in fixing the reincarnation problem in time.



#9
Fardragon

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You can allow (or support) Eothas in his rampage, the world doesn't end or anything after, the 'credits?' still talk about the future, and repercussions of your choices.

Sure, the world doesn't end immediately, but we don't know if the kith succeed in fixing the reincarnation problem in time.

 

 

But is there a problem at all? Presumably before the construction of the wheel, kith died and kith where born, and they all had souls.



#10
wRAR

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But is there a problem at all? Presumably before the construction of the wheel, kith died and kith where born, and they all had souls.

 

Not again.

Presumably the old system was broken when creating the current system.

Do you think the gods don't know about the old system?



#11
AndreaColombo

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The gods aren’t omniscient, to the best of my understanding. They don’t necessarily know how it worked before they were created; they weren’t there to witness it, after all, and I doubt the Engwithans were eager to let them know.

Unless, of course, the gods retained memories from all the souls that went into creating them. In that case, they must know something—but what? Did every Engwithan know everything about reincarnation in detail? It is more likely that most people knew it existed, but no details. Some people would know the gist of it, others would hold false beliefs or information, others still would know everything or so. How would a god with all these conflicting notions pick the truth and see through falsehood?

Edited by AndreaColombo, 10 June 2018 - 12:04 AM.

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#12
Balbanes

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Agree, there's no indication the gods would know about pre-Engwithan life.  I further note that the gods aren't terribly bright-- while they have access to additional info by virtual of their long existences, they aren't any better than kith at deduction or problem solving.  IIRC, Berath suggests that the gods are actually *worse* at decision making, since they are all required to obey their assigned roles.  Thus even if the best course of actions involves not betraying anyone, Skaen gonna Skaen.

 

Also, query why Eothas didn't pull this stunt earlier.  Perhaps he couldn't, and his death freed him from his programming, Agent Smith-style?


Edited by Balbanes, 11 June 2018 - 04:58 PM.


#13
wRAR

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Also, query why Eothas didn't pull this stunt earlier.  Perhaps he couldn't, and his death freed him from his programming, Agent Smith-style?

He tried to do this without breaking the Wheel. He got killed as the result.



#14
Seroster01

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The questions about the wheel have been asked before on these forums, and someone brought up a bit from Sawyer that basically said "We have all the answers to this and in the original script it was explained in the final Eothas dialogue. But then we felt like that was too long/too much of an info dump so we cut out all the parts you're asking questions about".

May be added back in later? May be filled in during the xpacs? Who knows?

#15
mirwir

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Maybe. Im not sure about this. But Eothas found a way to end the "rich getting richer and poor getting poorer " thing... no matter your religion :/ ? Am I way off?

#16
mirwir

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anyway that big giant adra statue hasnt the slightest idea of what being a mortal kith is. how can u decide what is more important for us kith, when he doesnt even know what loosing a loved one means. im siding with Eder. if Berath will lend me her power i will use it to fight him for all the destruction he has caused, to all the people of Cad Nua trapped inside him and all the sacrificed people he thought were trivial in comparison to his Greater Cause and to all those stuck in the inbetween.



#17
AndreaColombo

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Isn’t Eothas trying to stop the gods from feeding off kith souls? Though that would kind of run counter what Rymrgand wants, and Rymrgand kind of agrees with Eothas so... not sure what to think.
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#18
MaxQuest

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anyway that big giant adra statue hasnt the slightest idea of what being a mortal kith is.

Iirc there was a dialog where Eothas referred to himself as Engwithan.
Thus I was under impression that he was once mortal. That engwithans have chosen 11 between them. And these chosen ones have ascended when the rest has given their soul essense.

#19
KaineParker

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Isn’t Eothas trying to stop the gods from feeding off kith souls? Though that would kind of run counter what Rymrgand wants, and Rymrgand kind of agrees with Eothas so... not sure what to think.


Eothas wants to reveal the gods for what they are and let kith rebuild the wheel without their interference, Rymrgand wants the wheel destroyed and the world to end. Rymrgand supports Eothas in that he believes/hopes kith won't be able to fix the wheel and a slow death is the future for Eora instead of Kith managing to get **** right.
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#20
mirwir

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i like when games have deep philosophy.

 

it is an amazing story. a God, named Eothas, heading to destroy the wheel of reincarnation in the lost city of Ukaizo for the purpose of evolving kith beyond what they thought they were capable of, or atleast "Speeding up the process" of evolving kith. Eothas is certain that animancers are close to unearthing the science behind what the Engwithans achieved back in their time such as creating the wheel and by breaking the wheel he is certain that kith will be capable of much more.

 

well imagine living in that time. knowing that you cannot be reborn if you do not find out a way to build the wheel again. no doubt all kith will set their priorities straight. power, money, and land will no longer hold any value. all kith will unite under one sole direction, and that is a "Future". and this will cause a huge leap in every aspect in kith life, from science, animancy, politics, economics. one thing Eothas had in mind is that he will put an end to poverty sooner. and there will be no more of "rich getting richer, poor getting poorer", all the troubles and worries that kith had and dreaded upon a day to day basis will be a thing of the past. So the obvious thing is that, Eothas Believes that the only way for Kith to reach this state, they have to do so by themselves knowing that relying on Gods will do them no good whatsoever. They have to find out by themselves that what they are capable of is beyond their wildest dreams.

 

All watchers will be busy as hell working with animancers on their experiments and machines, collecting data as they reach one breakthrough after another. since the time they have is very limited. infact limited only to those generations who are alive.

 

i mean i hope we dont end up like the golden colored people in the golden colored city in the beginning of Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Eothas imagines that kith will become so advanced that everybody will be knowledgeable in sciences, animancy, arcana. and animancy can be used to teleport people from one place to another. saving fossil fuels reducing pollution...

 

My view in all this is alot different from that of the big giant adra statues. Eothas hasnt the slightest idea of what being a mortal kith is. how can he decide what is more important for us kith, when he doesnt even know what loosing a loved one means. if Berath will lend me her power i will use it to fight him for all the souls he is using from the adra pillars to move that giant statue, for the animancers he sacrificed in port maje and every other being on his way to Hasango which he blames me for, for all those stuck in the inbetween, and more importantly for all the people of Caed Nua whose lives he ruined.

 

and about the wheel. the way i think about it is. where did life come from. how did life start on earth? Bill Nye proved that some living organisms can live in a small commet and survive the journey in space and even the impact on earth. so that means maybe life came from another planet? and before that planet was it also another planet? the same question goes for the wheel.

 

i just finished the game .


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