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Hello! i get frustrated every time i remember that physical and spiritual strength are inevitably related, The other characteristics included on the other attributed are more logically related, but physical and spiritual strength? Someone else bothers this? Hope this is changed. I had this idea:(sorry, cant avoid it :v) Might having two branches, one for physical strength and one for spiritual, if you have 16 might, you have 16 on physical and 16 on spiritual, you can relocate points from physical to spiritual and vise-versa, of course the bonuses on combat would be really small, but now there would be physical and spiritual strength attribute checks, so you can role a pure muscular with arcane dysfunction or a flimsy arcane genius wizard

I'm sure this has been raised before, but I did a search for "Might" on the forums and didn't get any hits, so here is my question: Why is Might required for every class? Now, Obsidian have every right to build they game they want to play - even if what they make is their own version/take of things like DnD rules and previous games like Baldur's Gate. And if they take away 'healing' and put 'Endurance' in it's place, so be it. (Personally I think it sounds like an extra layer of complexity, but that's their call). I just don't understand why, in order to have an effective character in combat, you HAVE to have Might. As a wizard, you shouldn't need it. You never had to have might (or strength) as a Wizard before. This would also apply to other characters like Rogues, and in this game, Ciphers, Druids, Priests etc. But to be an effective combatant, the game says you should have Might, regardless of class. Why do you need Might to pull a trigger on a pistol or rifle? Why does the resulting damage from said weapons increase if you have more Might?? It was frustrating and very limiting to consider a party build where Might was needed for all classes.

So I was wondering, does the Might stat affect the amount of health healed via Constant Recovery or Ancient Memory, or are they calculated independent of the Fighter or Chanter's (respectively) might? Thanks in advance.

Hello Fellas, I have a problem about PoE character creation. This problem could be my particular problem but still may help you when my problem is solved. I opened the game with great enthusiasm it was a good feeling I like the graphics and etc. The nice sweet memories of Baldur's Gate appeared in my mind. I always play with wizard so I watched videos how they created their characters, what they choose etc. Then I created a character it was Coastal Aumaua Wizard. I thought 2 Might would be good for damage. Then I proceed to Attributes section. This is where my problem starts. Which One is the best combination? Here is my thoughts about creating a wizard. Sex: Here I choose male. I like to think that the main character is me and as if I'm living in the game. But I may have choosen female and name her as my girlfriend who broke up with me. Then walk every trap and die numerous times. What ever I choose male :D Race: Race was very hard for me to choose I thought best options might be: Coastal Aumaua (for +2 Might and Towering Physique), Pale Elf (for +1 intellect and Elemental Endurance) and Death Godlike (For +1 intellect / +1 Dexterity and Death's Usher). As a result I had chosen Coastal Aumaua because wizards stays back so I dont need Elemental Endurance, Also +2 Might is nice and always in effect so I dont prefer Death's Usher instead I prefer to damage every time not only under %25. Spells: Spirit Shield: Covers my weak points. Thrust of Tattered Veils: It's a nice spell fast, ranged, Damaging and Interrupting. Fleet Feet: Also this is for defence since my character is squishy I need to evade when someone reaches me. Ghost Blades: Well I need a ranged AoE Damage spell. Attributes: First I took back every point; I have 57 points... Might: Obvious that might is a must for wizards. I have +2 Racial Bonus here so I WILL USE IT. This will be 20 I'm sure this is a nice choice. +30% more damage and healing also +20 Fortitute. In addtion fits my role and race. Intellect: Also this is obvious that intelligence is a must for wizards. I pump this stat to 18. So I get +48% AoE, +40% Duration and +16 Will. Which are all nice for a wizard. Dexterity: Not much important as the first two but this attribute is also very important. To deal the damage and area that I obtained from first two stats I need to be fast. As I could remeber from DnD 3rd and 2nd Editions 15 Dexterity was considered high for opening more powerful feats and accomplishing quests that requires dexterity. However in DnD you should have an even number in order to get an bonus. So in this situation I will leave it as 15 because every penny counts in this system and I got: +15% Action Speed, +10 Reflex. I still have doubts but this is optimum I suppose. Put a mark here 16 may be better? Resolve: Like dexterity, resolve have the second class importance. Because we have to complete the spells and cast them without interrupted. Also resolve seems supportive for completing quests by talking. I wish I can give more but again I will give 15 points here. Which is considered high and gives me: +15 Concentration, +5 Deflection and +10 Will. Perception: This one have third degree importance. I just need this for questy talks and interrupt with my spells. How ever I have already spent many points so I can give only 6 here and get: -12 Interrupt, -4 Deflection and -8 Reflex. I feel sorry for negative interrupt but at least deflection and reflex values are compensated from other areas. Constitution: This is bad but I have to do this... 3 Points left here. However This one is the least required attribute for wizards. It gives me: -21% Endurance and Health, -14 Fortitude. I dont care about fortitute I already obtained enough from might. But I'm really sorry being so squishy... Culture: Of course "The Living Lands" I need more might. After every sacrifice to obtain this much might I will only buff it more. Living Lands gives me +1 Might. So my final Might Score Hits 21 Points and gives me +33% Damage and Healing, and +22 Fortitude. Background: I choose explorer because it gives +1 Lore which is very logical for a wizard and +1 Survival which is a futile effort after leaving my character with 3 points of Constitution. Well this is a "consolation prize" for my character yay... Appearance: Colors: I know it wont help but I prefer dark colors for camouflage. Also brown colors fits my armor. Skin: Gold one because it fits portrait picture. Hair: I'm a bald guy. At least in the portrait picture. Head Appearance: Facial Hair: None by default. Head: 1/3 Hair: 1/19 Portrait: They gave me no choice 2/66 is the only picture that I could choose. I had prepared appearange in accordant with this picture. Voice: I think noble or mystic are equally right for this character. I prefer noble. Name: Find something suitable. Please tell me about your opinions.

So you got 22 Might. Thats +22% Damage AND Healing! Thats awesome right? But...what does it matter if you cant actually hit anything? The BB party all has 10 perception with the exception of the Wizard´s 12 and the Rogues 22. The BB Fighter has 22 Might. And this is hitting a stationary target. ...Ok that stationary target was a priest and he was buffing himself with armor spells. So this log is a bit of an exageration. BUT IS IT? I mean we are gonna be facing spellcasters and priests in our travels and those bonuses to deflection, DT and reflexes are gonna stack and get bigger with creatures too. And you see how much damage the Rogue is doing. And she has just 9 might and is using a shortbow. 9 Might. Bonkers. 22 Perception + Reckless assault (+10 Rnaged Accuracy and x1.2 damage). Genius. After trying out the new vanila PoE system a bit Im starting to think the +% bonuses and maluses should be doubled. +2% of 30 damage isnt significant when enemies have +200 hp. Neither is +15% of 30 damage. I dont know how damage values in the endgame are gonna be but I think that even with 200 damage atacks +15% of that isnt gonna really matter and the difference between 3 Might vs 20 Might is gonna be one autoattack. Im no math guy but the one time I could see Might being more useful than Perception would be with DoTs since you hit more and most of those hits are guaranteed. For autoattacks you should go with Perception. Considering you have things like INT that give you much needed Deflection and AOE, CON that makes you live longer and DEX that makes you attack faster, I would say the current "Dump Stats" are Might and Resolve. Make a 22 Perception 3 Might Character. Max DEX. Try it.

GOD DAMMIT. I had this really lengthy post and then I accidentally closed the window. Okay, second try. It's time to accept that Might is not accepted by many players. I love the idea of an attribute system where every attribute is useful for every class, but many people just don't like the idea that mental and physical power are based on the same attribute. And I can understand why. We want our fragile old wizards who deal tons of damage. We don't want "muscle wizards", no matter how wacky and fun that sounds. There is a disconnect between the Might attribute and our understanding of what attributes are supposed to represent in a character. Also, some of the attributes are somewhat unintuitive right now. And unbalanced. Resolve and Perception are dump stats right now. Resolve is a lot like Willpower, a mental intensity and presence. But nothing meaningful is tied to it. Perception is your awareness of surroundings, but same problem, it's only used for a mechanic that, while sounding interesting, is not very intuitive. Dexterity on the other hand seems bloated with all the things it governs. I want to change that, but I realize it won't be completely balanced. This is also something we'll just have to accept. Either we have a balanced system, or we have a slightly unbalanced system that makes people happy. My goal here is to make it just a tiny bit unbalanced while still making different builds possible and fun to play. What I'm NOT going to do is try and balance the system perfectly. Many people go ahead and say "okay so my system is Might gives 2% weapon damage, +1% to crits, blabla..." Going into detail like that won't solve anything. I want to propose a system where a fighter has reasons for different builds, and where a spellcaster has reasons for different builds. If there's a general reason for each class to put points into all attributes, then the system is balanceable. And that's all I'm aiming for right now. (By the way - the current system IS balanceable. It's just a question of making Interrupts and Concentration more important and Damage less important. The problem with the current system is not that it's unbalanced, it's that it's at its core not well-liked.) Even if the system turns out a bit unbalanced, the gameplay outside of combat takes care of that. Because seriously. The non-combat gameplay sounds awesome. There's lots of attribute checks etc and it sounds like roleplaying will be a blast. So even if combat isn't exactly balanced, I believe every character build will be interesting enough simply because of its non-combat possibilities that it warrants at least one playthrough. This is my main argument for why it's not so bad to have a slightly unbalanced system. If someone ignores all that content and only goes for min-maxing... well that really is his problem. With all that said... here's my proposal. Turn Might into Strength. Take out the Magic/Ability Damage. This instantly makes the attribute less interesting for many classes. Add Magic/Ability Damage to Resolve. As said, Resolve is basically Willpower. It's a perfect fit for Magic/Ability Damage and instantly makes this attribute important to a lot of classes - mostly to spellcasters however, for whom this will be the main attribute along with Intellect. Keep Intellect as AoE and Duration modifier. Resolve is a character's intensity, but intellect is his cleverness and allows them to shape their powers to their will. Makes perfect sense and is intuitive. Split Accuracy into Melee Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy. Leave Melee Accuracy in DEX, put Ranged Accuracy into PER. Perception is the attribute for keen sight and aiming. Ranged combat should benefit hugely from it, and this way it does. DEX was never a good fit for ranged accuracy. Add Ranged Reload Speed to DEX and Melee Crits to PER. DEX is however a perfect fit for reload speed, and we can use that to keep it interesting for ranged combatants. PER on the other hand allows melee combatants to see openings and use them. This makes it interesting for them without overpowering it for ranged combat. That's it. Now you might think "but now Strength is useless for spellcasters". But that's not true. First of all, there's the Healing which they can still benefit from. Then: Druids need it in their animal shape. Ciphers, Chanters and Monks need it anyway because part of their class is based upon attacking first and using powers later. And Wizards and Priests actually have spells at their disposal that are only useful when they have decent Strength. It's totally possible to play a Battlemage this way. But yeah, if you want to play a glass-cannon wizard, you can dump Strength now while still dealing tons of damage. (You won't be able to intimidate anyone anymore though.) And all in all, Strength might be a bit too unimportant for spellcasters now. But that's the price you have to pay to make the players happy, and I believe this solution is still pretty good. Hope some of the devs read and consider this. P.S. And no I don't want a discussion about whether the current system is intuitive or not. This is a proposal under the premise that the majority of players don't like the current system. If that's not true in your opinion, great, you can ignore this. If it is true, then this is the closest I can think of to keeping the current system while making the majority of players happy at the same time.

Hello all! A while back, I created a spreadsheet that calculated the effective DPS multiplier from Accuracy. My intent was to allow a way for people to compare MIG and DEX from a damage-doing perspective. We're in the Backer Beta to provide feedback, and our feedback is only as useful as our information. Knowledge is power. Etc.... My spreadsheet was pretty well received. Sparked some good discussion about how the different attributes affect combat dps, and led to some new insights on my part from some errors pointed out by others. So I've taken your feedback into consideration and revamped the spreadsheet, adding new capability. There's now a master calculation sheet where you can vary any and all of these 17 variables: Graze Damage Crit Damage MIG % Damage Bonus/Point MIG % Damage @ 0 DEX Accuracy/point Might Dexterity Base Accuracy (from class) % Damage Bonus (abilities etc) Bonus Accuracy (abilities etc) Weapon Base MIN Damage Weapon Base MAX Damage Attack Speed (frames) Recovery Time (frames) Target Deflection Target DT DT Effectiveness To calculate the resulting dps. Up to 20 different combinations are supported (and you can probably figure out how to add more if you want). My hope is that through the power of crowdsourcing, members of this community will discover new insights about the balance and tuning of PoE's combat and combat stats. Make informative graphs. See how a 25% increase in crit damage and an increase of the DEX Accuracy bonus to 1.5/level will solve all the balance problems!! (I just made that up, but you get the point). The more we know about the actual balance, the more valuable feedback we can give about balance changes. People are arguing elsewhere about really major mechanics that, while important to discuss, probably aren't going to change much. What will change, and what we have the chance to affect and improve, are the tuning changes. So please - use this spreadsheet! Find interesting relationships among the variables! Share your insights with the community. So without further ado, here is the spreadsheet. Enjoy New Excel: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29325716/Pillars%20of%20Eternity%20DPS%20calc%20V2.xlsx Old Excel: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29325716/Pillars%20of%20Eternity%20DPS%20calc%20V2.xls Unfortunately I think there are some compatibility issues with Google Sheets - if anyone figures out how to make it work, let us know. On to the second part of the post. This will be short, but I wanted to be sure and talk about it really quick. MIG vs DEX. There has been some debate as to if MIG or DEX actually increases your damage more. And as Azrael Ultima pointed out, the marginal benefit of one more point in MIG or DEX is directly dependent on the current value of the other variable. So here's a comparison chart. On the Y axis is the marginal % damage increase (% of BASE damage, mind you - so all %s are based on the same scale) and on the X axis is the current value of Accuracy minus Deflection. As you can see, the math is pretty clear. If Accuracy minus Deflection is greater than 5, MIG is always going to increase your dps more. If Accuracy minus Deflection is less than 5, DEX will usually increase your dps more. Only exception is when Accuracy minus Deflection are between -5 and -20, where the dominating stat depends on your current value of MIG. So it would seem that if you want an optimal build, you don't want to completely dump either - but neither is completely un-viable or always better than the other one either. In particular, note that this basically means more accurate characters will do better against enemies with very high deflection, while more mighty characters will do better against enemies with very low deflection. Kind of makes sense. So (at least at first glance) it looks like these are pretty well balanced, from a dps standpoint at least (there are of course more factors to consider when comparing different stats than just dps). So... that's what I've got for today. Take the spreadsheet - use it to answer "what if?" questions about game balance and tuning. Present insights with the community. Help PoE be the best game it can be. PS - Here's the equations used. Might be slightly simplified from what is used in the spreadsheet (the DT usage I didn't even try because it's literally an entire sheet of the spreadsheet by itself), but the general idea is there.

I was searching this post since the muscle mage debate started, finaly i found it. :D Its a short but interesting read about mages and physical fitness. Its from the Steve Jackson Games forum, from the user D10000, enjoy: Sorry for the text background color but I have no clue how to change it. Myth v. Stereotype, or "My Wizard Wears Plate and Has a 14 Strength" In another thread on plate armor and spell casting I got off on a Semi tangent relating to magic user stereotypes and their conflict with magic user's in pre-D&D fantasy (this also overlaps and parallels Elves). When I think of wizards I think of Odin, Mercury, Gandalf, Feanor, Elric, Kane or Simon Magus. Do any of them strike you as a skinny old bookworm? In many, many settings physical vitality is a prerequisite to surviving or excelling at magic use. To me, a mage is either 1) a superior being or 2) a man with a particular skill set which is for no reason incompatible with him being 7 feet tall and able to kill with an axe, especially if he's an adventurer. I mean, even computer geeks in the army have armor and know how to shoot guns, and adventuring is way more dangerous. If Bookmouse wizards exist they're doing bookmouse things, not getting their hair clipped by throwing axes in some hellish pit. Another example is the sorcerer Xaltotun from the Conan story "Hour of the Dragon", who is almost physically perfect in addition to being a super sorcerer. I feel like the weak wizard is more a projection of modern bookworm stereotypes than most genre literature that went before. There's some evidence that good looks, physical fitness and brains often cluster in the same individuals I real life, though obviously not always it makes evolutionary sense (it makes sense to evolve attraction to traits that are associated with the genetics for physical and mental fitness). Though it's not exactly fair I think plenty of us have met the straight A trackstar who became a stockbroker, or someone like him. IRL there's no guarantee of balanced CP, even if PCs are for character creation reasons there's no reason NPCs should be. Now put aside the character point issue for a moment (this is one reason I like random character attributes, and I've rolled them in GURPS before) it seems to me that somewhere the public image of wizards changed to be a lot different than Magi, wizards and sorcerers of the past. Sure, they're often ugly or anti-social, but wizard from Mazdaran to Baba Yaga are noteworthy for freakish, superhuman vitality. The difficulty of killing and keeping a wizard dead is central to many mythical plots from Iran to Scandinavia, and those are just the ones I'm familiar with. And characters not explicitly identified as wizards, but who use sorcery and magic, are often quite vital; I.e. the virtually-unkillable-except-by-brute-violence elves of Poul Anderson's the Broken Sword, where the Elf jarl is hung over continually burning coals with no food or water for weeks or months and recovers in a few days, or Tolkien's Elves and the Norse Ljosaelfar and Vanir, our the Finnish shape shifting smith-heroes. To pick an explicitly wizardry example, probably the most archetypsl 'wiz-ards' ever look at the gods of magic and knowledge, Odin or Mercury. One a god of war and kingship, the other of athletic speed; neither bookish or easily outdone in a fight.