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Is Might a Dump Stat? Is Perception THE DPS stat?

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 Intelligence is a must-have for tanks. OK, got no problem with that personally but YMMV.

There's an intelligence stat? I thought it was Intellect.


"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Well I just tried making a Rogue of my own. A Wood elf instead of an Orlan.

I have no idea how BB Rogue manages to get 22 Perception (Orlan gives +2 Elf gives +1), only managed 19 Perception, gave her 20 Dex and 18 Might. In contrast BB Rouge has 22 Perception, 9 Might, and lik 18 Dex.

 

They both are wearing Padded Armor and are using Fine Hunting Bows (lucky drop from inn chests).

 

 

Tried against Medreth´s group.

 

Well, BB Rouge manages to hit and crit more often and does more damage overall even with just 9 Might. Switched the Arquebus between the two when fighting Lions. BB Rouge still does more damage.

 

Youd think a Wood Elfs would have more crits than an Orlan due to ranged accuracy bonus but it seems Hearth Orlan´s Minor Threat +% crit damage wins out.

 

Im not saying this is hard evudence of anything. Im just trying to figure out why BB Rouge does so much damage.

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Maybe the enemies are vulnerable to the colour red?

Swords aren't heavy, true. But have you ever tried to swing around a real one? I mean real ones that are not rapiers or modern fencing swords. They drain your stamina really really fast. Also, one to 2 kg swords are useless weapons against armour. They can penetrate armour, yes, but not deal any real bashing damage against enemies. 3 kg swords and above, those are really the weapons of battle. 

 

Not to mention warhammers, clubs, greatswords and shield bash damages are all controlled by might.

3kg+ are solely two-handers(also known as longswords or greatswords). That aside, yes, they aren't terribly useful against armor. Which is why they usually weren't used against it.

 

Also, Might still isn't strength. It's simply assumed that any fighter is strong enough to wield her weapon in battle effectively.

Edited by Azrael Ultima

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Well I just tried making a Rogue of my own. A Wood elf instead of an Orlan.

I have no idea how BB Rogue manages to get 22 Perception (Orlan gives +2 Elf gives +1), only managed 19 Perception, gave her 20 Dex and 18 Might. In contrast BB Rouge has 22 Perception, 9 Might, and lik 18 Dex.

Well the max you can get by the numbers is 21 in certain attributes with the necessary racial/cultural bonus, if I remember correctly, 18 from attributes + 2 race + 1 culture? The NPCs can have higher because they're NPCs afaik - there maybe story events that need you to use members who have a 21 attribute + thus you can get different bonuses for picking 21 Dexterity Bob over 21 Mighty Timmy at the start? I dunno Edited by TheNationer

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Maybe the enemies are vulnerable to the colour red?

Swords aren't heavy, true. But have you ever tried to swing around a real one? I mean real ones that are not rapiers or modern fencing swords. They drain your stamina really really fast. Also, one to 2 kg swords are useless weapons against armour. They can penetrate armour, yes, but not deal any real bashing damage against enemies. 3 kg swords and above, those are really the weapons of battle. 

 

Not to mention warhammers, clubs, greatswords and shield bash damages are all controlled by might.

3kg+ are solely two-handers(also known as longswords or greatswords). That aside, yes, they aren't terribly useful against armor. Which is why they usually weren't used against it.

 

Also, Might still isn't strength. It's simply assumed that any fighter is strong enough to wield her weapon in battle effectively.

 

 

 

MIght * is * strength in the sense that it affects melee damage. I know that in this system things are ridiculous to a point in terms of name. But still, strength affects damage in real life and that is what might does. 


"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

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Well I just tried making a Rogue of my own. A Wood elf instead of an Orlan.

I have no idea how BB Rogue manages to get 22 Perception (Orlan gives +2 Elf gives +1), only managed 19 Perception, gave her 20 Dex and 18 Might. In contrast BB Rouge has 22 Perception, 9 Might, and lik 18 Dex.

 

They both are wearing Padded Armor and are using Fine Hunting Bows (lucky drop from inn chests).

 

 

Tried against Medreth´s group.

 

Well, BB Rouge manages to hit and crit more often and does more damage overall even with just 9 Might. Switched the Arquebus between the two when fighting Lions. BB Rouge still does more damage.

 

Youd think a Wood Elfs would have more crits than an Orlan due to ranged accuracy bonus but it seems Hearth Orlan´s Minor Threat +% crit damage wins out.

 

Im not saying this is hard evudence of anything. Im just trying to figure out why BB Rouge does so much damage.

With the setup you described (same class, same weapon, same attributes(ish) except more Might for your PC), BB Rogue should do less damage. The problem is, testing a few times against Medreth isn't a good way of determining, simply because of the random variance in damage rolls. Did you by chance look at the rolls and see what each character rolled? My hunch is that BB Rogue just got more lucky crits. Either that or she's bugged. But the numbers don't lie.

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MIght * is * strength in the sense that it affects melee damage. I know that in this system things are ridiculous to a point in terms of name. But still, strength affects damage in real life and that is what might does.

Might includes strength. It is not strength. Strength is also not the only thing that affects how hard you can hit things with melee weapons in real life. It mostly affects what kind of weapons you can use effectively, actually.
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The thing is BB Rouge has Hearth Orlan modifier that either converts 10% hits into crits or makes the roll needed for a hit to be a crit 10% smaller (character creation and character sheet have diferent wordings), in additon to having all the Rouge abilities and having a hax +2 perception on her.

 

I didnt actually check every roll but since the Rouge´s accuracy is 56 with Reckless assault most rolls look like this:

tzM0umQ.png

 

Its either BB Rouge´s rolls are high or her accuracy is high enough to compensate for low rolls. Im still not sure how the 10% conversion of hits into crits works or how its factored into the math. The roll calculation only shows the accuracy part of it, not the damage calculations.

 

I agree testing it on Medreth fight isnt the best way to determine it but that fight has one of the highest DT NPCs (Cowled Dward with Brigadine) that is easily accesible. Its lazyness on my part.

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Yeah well ACC-DEF = 31 is going to lead to a lot of crits, and a lot of benefit from the Might bonus too. I *think* that is a 38% chance to Crit, which is pretty High. The Hearth Orlan thing probably makes it 48%, which is like w0w imba ?

Edited by Sensuki

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ACC-DEF = 31 should be 36% base + 4.5% (10% of 45%) = 40.5% chance to crit. Which is quite something indeed. 

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Yeah well ACC-DEF = 31 is going to lead to a lot of crits, and a lot of benefit from the Might bonus too. I *think* that is a 38% chance to Crit, which is pretty High. The Hearth Orlan thing probably makes it 48%, which is like w0w imba ?

Doesn't seem to be implemented yet though.

 

 

MIG, DEX, PER seems to be the go to for melee/ranged DPS just now, with ACC being THE king as usual because if affects everything.

Edited by mutonizer

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Actually from having just booted up the new version for the first time to check out the stat changes I am going to have to post something I imagine will not be popular....

 

Change it back.

 

The new stats make no sense.  If I want to make a fighter who is a powerful tank character I can dump Might and Dex but I want to max out Intelligence?????  This makes no sense, and it is non intuitive.  Dex is now basically a joke stat you can just leave at 10 for everyone, only casters are going to see huge benefit.  Perception is now massively overpowered especially for ranged characters.  Intelligence is now must have for tanks where as before it was just reasonably useful.  Resolve is now a caster stat that no one else will really get a ton of use out of since interrupts were removed from Perception.

 

I had gripes with the old stat system, I patently dislike the new one.

 

I agree the new stats are pretty much...wtf?

 

Int is the tank stat....lol....wait until the public gets a hold of that one.

 

Dex isn't Dex but simply Speed and it's benefit isn't apparent and many people are going to view it as artificial unless it's explained well in game.

If it stays this way it will be grossly un-intuitive and I'd bet many players outside of these forums are not going to "get it", not to mention the name changes that should follow.

 

There are more clear choices now than there were before...and range as a stat is just as gimmicky as interrupt as a stat was.

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ACC-DEF = 31 should be 36% base + 4.5% (10% of 45%) = 40.5% chance to crit. Which is quite something indeed.

Yeah it shows that I've had 2 hours sleep in 48 hours xD Cognitive Ability 0

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Would somebody kindly point out the to-hit/damage dependency for stats for a poor forum lurker,  as in, is there a wiki entry somewhere?

 

It seems that Accuracy (per)  gives better chance to hit and to crit.

 

I wonder if you could fix the balance of stats by leaving Accuracy(per) as more of a better hit but not crit chance and assign intellect as giving a wider crit range.

 

It seems to me the AOE/range thing is a little too class specific, switching to crit range should benefit all classes,

 

you could motivate it as critical hits being the genius ability to exploit a situation to cause maximum damage.  (or healing? can you crit with healing spells?)

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OMG! The stat system is BORKEN!!!11elevenses1!!!

 

But it is.

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Would somebody kindly point out the to-hit/damage dependency for stats for a poor forum lurker,  as in, is there a wiki entry somewhere?

 

It seems that Accuracy (per)  gives better chance to hit and to crit.

 

I wonder if you could fix the balance of stats by leaving Accuracy(per) as more of a better hit but not crit chance and assign intellect as giving a wider crit range.

 

It seems to me the AOE/range thing is a little too class specific, switching to crit range should benefit all classes,

 

you could motivate it as critical hits being the genius ability to exploit a situation to cause maximum damage.  (or healing? can you crit with healing spells?)

 

Here's how it was supposed to work: "Yeah, the way we display the non-verbose final roll is always relative to the standard ranges: Miss on <=5, Graze on 6-50, Hit on 51-95, Crit on >=96.  Defense is subtracted from Accuracy and then applied as a modifier to the roll itself.  E.g. the attacker has 52 Accuracy and the defender has 30 Defense.  The difference is 22.  Three attacks happen in sequence.  The actual rolls are 65, 43, and 84.  Those are modified to 85 (Hit), 65 (Hit), and 106 (Crit).  There are two exceptions to this: a natural roll of <=5 can never be better than a Graze and a natural roll of >=96 can never be worse than a Hit, no matter how much the table gets skewed." So says Josh.

 

So since dex increases accuracy (with various modifiers), and Int increases threat range (with some limitations I think), it always was possible to create a fighter without MAX-MIN stats, who still do fairly high and consistent damage. Because of the accuracy bonus (and high attack roll bonuses), he would convert hits that would have been misses into grazes and hits. And there's be a generous amount of criticals as well. In difficult fights against quick high def targets, that fighter (with similar, but not identical strengths as the rogue) would likely be one of the main damage dealers. OMG the system is BORKERN!! because might can be dropped!!!

 

Against heavy DT targets, however, things get more difficult. Because now all those grazes and hits never do any damage at all. Only the crits actually do any damage for the elf running around swatting the Orc with a sword. And a high might stat, or something that bypasses armor, becomes critical. And OMG!!! THE SYSTEM IS BROOOOKKKKEEBNNNN!!!!! Because now only Might works.

 

Btw, now you suddenly you see the appeal of the barbarian as well, who can temp between the two roles at the cost of defense and other interrupt-based abilities the fighter is extremely well suited for.

 

So that's just the attacks of the fighter builds, while ignoring the defenses for a while. Which is equally interesting. And that's how one class can encompass several completely different types of builds, that pass into the territory of the other classes, and vice versa.

 

 

-----

 

The question is what exactly, if anything, was actually changed this time around. It is this: Perception became Accuracy, and defense bonuses became "deflection", governed by Intellect. Resistance became the governing stat for duration, rather than Int.

 

And what has happened with the rest? Does perception still govern chance to cause interrupts? Does defense bonuses (that used to come from dex) still improve your chances to overcome your resistance checks for interrupts against you? We don't know, because now apparently defense comes from intelligence and perception, rather than dexterity and constitution. 

 

What have you accomplished then, you bastards? You have switched around existing values so that the intuitive synergies between might, dexterity, intelligence and perception makes more mattthemattical sense, if you know absolutely nothing about the mechanics underneath, and couldn't care less about roleplaying a character before POURING OVER THE ENTIRE STAT SHEET for hours.

 

And in return, you can now make a kind of character who is for example extremely perceptive and intelligent, and choose a class that offsets the penalties form dumping all the other stats. You can make a dwarf fighter who is hardy and crafty. And because he's a good mechanic, he can also dodge bullets. 

 

I'll tell you what you've accomplished. You've managed to accomplish nothing whatsoever except making the system more unintuitive and more difficult to play into. And you've removed the probability that I'll ever really enjoy the fighting and the mechanics of the game again. It'll be the dialogue, and **** the rest.

 

That's what you've accomplished. So thank you so ****ing much, **** ****ing superfans. That's the last I'll say about this. **** you.

 

 

OMG! The stat system is BORKEN!!!11elevenses1!!!

 

But it is.

 

By definition, as per your subjective feeling? Or is it more of a group and a PR thing, where the system isn't working unless a majority of the entire group somehow seems to like it at the same time.

 

Go to hell.

 

Seriously, what the **** are you guys even doing around here? What do you want?


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First Malignacious, and now nipsen - two floor-clearing posts in like 24H.

 

I borrowed this from TheisEjsing:

 

 

 

 


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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So since dex increases accuracy (with various modifiers), and Int increases threat range (with some limitations I think), it always was possible to

Intellect never increased the threat range.

 

What have you accomplished then, you bastards? You have switched around existing values so that the intuitive synergies between might, dexterity, intelligence and perception makes more mattthemattical sense, if you know absolutely nothing about the mechanics underneath, and couldn't care less about roleplaying a character before POURING OVER THE ENTIRE STAT SHEET for hours.

Dude, it's clear that you know less about the mechanics underneath than most other people do as you keep making false claims and chucking a tantrum over nothing.

 

And in return, you can now make a kind of character who is for example extremely perceptive and intelligent, and choose a class that offsets the penalties form dumping all the other stats. You can make a dwarf fighter who is hardy and crafty. And because he's a good mechanic, he can also dodge bullets.

We didn't say anything about adding Deflection to Intellect, that wasn't our idea and I agree it's dumb, but not in the way you think it is. 

 

I'll tell you what you've accomplished. You've managed to accomplish nothing whatsoever except making the system more unintuitive and more difficult to play into. And you've removed the probability that I'll ever really enjoy the fighting and the mechanics of the game again. It'll be the dialogue, and **** the rest.

The only thing more unintuitive is Intellect and Resolve really.

 

That's what you've accomplished. So thank you so ****ing much, **** ****ing superfans. That's the last I'll say about this. **** you.

Didn't realize you were a manchild, but okay.

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I just don't get how something that was so simple and could have been fixed by just giving deflection to resolve and maybe 1/2 other bonuses to perception resulted in half the stats functions completely changing.  I like the 10 is 0 thing but the rest of the stat changes are pretty bad in my opinion.  Change int back to what it was, leave might alone, leave con alone, give accuracy back to dex maybe even let it keep it's speed bonus though I am not sure it needs it, let perception keep it's range thing give it back the interrupt chance and give it like a small percentage chance to convert hit's to crits, give deflection to resolve.

 

Boom you are done.

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So since dex increases accuracy (with various modifiers), and Int increases threat range (with some limitations I think), it always was possible to

Intellect never increased the threat range.

 

 

Well, my understanding was that the bonus from int skewed the scale for the severity of the wounds you inflicted. I.e., made the critical hits hurt more. That isn't reflected in the stats directly, and it's not dependent on derived bonuses from stats. And it won't show up until the damage compounds and stamina depletes. So if the intention to make that was implemented in the game, then Int would affect the severity of critical hits. Example: a more severe critical hit snaps endurance and speed, making the amount of stamina to be depleted before a knock-out would perhaps as much as halve.

 

 

What have you accomplished then, you bastards? You have switched around existing values so that the intuitive synergies between might, dexterity, intelligence and perception makes more mattthemattical sense, if you know absolutely nothing about the mechanics underneath, and couldn't care less about roleplaying a character before POURING OVER THE ENTIRE STAT SHEET for hours.

Dude, it's clear that you know less about the mechanics underneath than most other people do as you keep making false claims and chucking a tantrum over nothing.

 

Clearly. And watch my video in the post above for the full explanation.

 

 

And in return, you can now make a kind of character who is for example extremely perceptive and intelligent, and choose a class that offsets the penalties form dumping all the other stats. You can make a dwarf fighter who is hardy and crafty. And because he's a good mechanic, he can also dodge bullets.

We didn't say anything about adding Deflection to Intellect, that wasn't our idea and I agree it's dumb, but not in the way you think it is.

 

Then how? Was dodge/deflection added as a non-class specific bonus - that you can skew an existing variable with a stat? Was it never in the game until now? Does it add value to a stat that had none before? If so, why? Is the actual benefit extremely small? We don't seem to know any of this - but that of course doesn't stop people from wishing for mechanically consistent stats that fit into an extremely specific style of play. Which you now seem to be getting from the devs. Who, for whatever reason, feel that this is now what people want - over a system easy to ROLEPLAY with, in a ROLEPLAYING GAME. Because that's just for dorks and nerds.

 

 

I'll tell you what you've accomplished. You've managed to accomplish nothing whatsoever except making the system more unintuitive and more difficult to play into. And you've removed the probability that I'll ever really enjoy the fighting and the mechanics of the game again. It'll be the dialogue, and **** the rest.

The only thing more unintuitive is Intellect and Resolve really.

 

Yes..?

 

Someone can be extremely headstrong, and yet completely f'n thick in the head. Someone can be a magnificent genius, but has no discipline or control of any sort, and can be talked into doing anything, for any reason.

 

And these concepts are unknown, because...?

 

 

That's what you've accomplished. So thank you so ****ing much, **** ****ing superfans. That's the last I'll say about this. **** you.

Didn't realize you were a manchild, but okay.

 

Brilliant. I also have only one single mood, and always act in a 100% predictable pattern regardless of context, in case you hadn't deduced that on beforehand.


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Well, my understanding was that the bonus from int skewed the scale for the severity of the wounds you inflicted. I.e., made the critical hits hurt more. That isn't reflected in the stats directly, and it's not dependent on derived bonuses from stats. And it won't show up until the damage compounds and stamina depletes. So if the intention to make that was implemented in the game, then Int would affect the severity of critical hits. Example: a more severe critical hit snaps endurance and speed, making the amount of stamina to be depleted before a knock-out would perhaps as much as halve.

Where are you getting this information from? Intellect in PE BB Attribute System v1 only affected Durations and AoE. It would have some effect on the magnitude of non-damaging hits where the effect duration scales with grazes and crits. However only at a flat percentile value of -50% (0.5% per attribute point) or +50% (+1.5% per attribute point).

 

Clearly. And watch my video in the post above for the full explanation.

Your video is an image, you should have added in a youtube UI over the top of it if you wanted to trick me into opening it.

 

Then how?

Let me answer your questions first.

  • Was dodge/deflection added as a non-class specific bonus - that you can skew an existing variable with a stat?

Yes

  • Was it never in the game until now?

Never a part of attributes, yes.

 

  • Does it add value to a stat that had none before?

Yes it does, which is the entire point of adding it.

 

  • If so, why?

Because to meet Josh's design goals properly, the attributes need to give more balanced benefits

 

Is the actual benefit extremely small?

It is at the moment, because they changed the way the Attributes give bonuses. 10 is 0 and anything less actually gives negative effects.

 

Then how?

I think it's dumb because adding Deflection and AoE together is pretty crap for most classes. It's really good for Paladins and Chanters though. Intellect as it was before was way better. I also don't think it makes that much sense from an RP perspective unless you go by that D&D splat book that had Intellect based Fighter stuff ... Duellisty type thing.

 

Durations and Concentration together on Resolve makes sense to me from an RP perspective, but I think Deflection and Concentration makes more sense, and Durations and AoEs should go together on Intellect.

 

Here's the thing though, I'm not sure if you've read much of Josh Sawyer's posts about the attribute system, but he has said he wants it to be a gamey system rather than a simulation-y system where the attributes are balanced via the combat benefits, with 'making sense' from an RP perspective being a secondary concnern. That's how it's been all along, we took that into account when designing our alternate system and this new version goes even further in the 'making less sense' department IMO even though they think it makes more sense than ours.

 

Someone can be extremely headstrong, and yet completely f'n thick in the head. Someone can be a magnificent genius, but has no discipline or control of any sort, and can be talked into doing anything, for any reason.

 

And these concepts are unknown, because...?

My understanding is that this stuff doesn't really matter too much in combat because the attribute system revolves around balance in combat. This stuff is only important for Dialogue and Scripted Interactions. And it already does what it's supposed to do there.

 

Brilliant. I also have only one single mood, and always act in a 100% predictable pattern regardless of context, in case you hadn't deduced that on beforehand.

Well you're flailing your arms around ignoring the actual reasons for things, and making your own up due to your negative experience with ... what game was it ? Gears of War or something.

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Would somebody kindly point out the to-hit/damage dependency for stats for a poor forum lurker,  as in, is there a wiki entry somewhere?

 

It seems that Accuracy (per)  gives better chance to hit and to crit.

 

I wonder if you could fix the balance of stats by leaving Accuracy(per) as more of a better hit but not crit chance and assign intellect as giving a wider crit range.

 

It seems to me the AOE/range thing is a little too class specific, switching to crit range should benefit all classes,

 

you could motivate it as critical hits being the genius ability to exploit a situation to cause maximum damage.  (or healing? can you crit with healing spells?)

 

Here's how it was supposed to work: "Yeah, the way we display the non-verbose final roll is always relative to the standard ranges: Miss on <=5, Graze on 6-50, Hit on 51-95, Crit on >=96.  Defense is subtracted from Accuracy and then applied as a modifier to the roll itself.  E.g. the attacker has 52 Accuracy and the defender has 30 Defense.  The difference is 22.  Three attacks happen in sequence.  The actual rolls are 65, 43, and 84.  Those are modified to 85 (Hit), 65 (Hit), and 106 (Crit).  There are two exceptions to this: a natural roll of <=5 can never be better than a Graze and a natural roll of >=96 can never be worse than a Hit, no matter how much the table gets skewed." So says Josh.

 

So since dex increases accuracy (with various modifiers), and Int increases threat range (with some limitations I think), it always was possible to create a fighter without MAX-MIN stats, who still do fairly high and consistent damage. Because of the accuracy bonus (and high attack roll bonuses), he would convert hits that would have been misses into grazes and hits. And there's be a generous amount of criticals as well. In difficult fights against quick high def targets, that fighter (with similar, but not identical strengths as the rogue) would likely be one of the main damage dealers. OMG the system is BORKERN!! because might can be dropped!!!

 

Against heavy DT targets, however, things get more difficult. Because now all those grazes and hits never do any damage at all. Only the crits actually do any damage for the elf running around swatting the Orc with a sword. And a high might stat, or something that bypasses armor, becomes critical. And OMG!!! THE SYSTEM IS BROOOOKKKKEEBNNNN!!!!! Because now only Might works.

 

Btw, now you suddenly you see the appeal of the barbarian as well, who can temp between the two roles at the cost of defense and other interrupt-based abilities the fighter is extremely well suited for.

 

So that's just the attacks of the fighter builds, while ignoring the defenses for a while. Which is equally interesting. And that's how one class can encompass several completely different types of builds, that pass into the territory of the other classes, and vice versa.

 

 

-----

 

The question is what exactly, if anything, was actually changed this time around. It is this: Perception became Accuracy, and defense bonuses became "deflection", governed by Intellect. Resistance became the governing stat for duration, rather than Int.

 

And what has happened with the rest? Does perception still govern chance to cause interrupts? Does defense bonuses (that used to come from dex) still improve your chances to overcome your resistance checks for interrupts against you? We don't know, because now apparently defense comes from intelligence and perception, rather than dexterity and constitution. 

 

What have you accomplished then, you bastards? You have switched around existing values so that the intuitive synergies between might, dexterity, intelligence and perception makes more mattthemattical sense, if you know absolutely nothing about the mechanics underneath, and couldn't care less about roleplaying a character before POURING OVER THE ENTIRE STAT SHEET for hours.

 

And in return, you can now make a kind of character who is for example extremely perceptive and intelligent, and choose a class that offsets the penalties form dumping all the other stats. You can make a dwarf fighter who is hardy and crafty. And because he's a good mechanic, he can also dodge bullets. 

 

I'll tell you what you've accomplished. You've managed to accomplish nothing whatsoever except making the system more unintuitive and more difficult to play into. And you've removed the probability that I'll ever really enjoy the fighting and the mechanics of the game again. It'll be the dialogue, and **** the rest.

 

That's what you've accomplished. So thank you so ****ing much, **** ****ing superfans. That's the last I'll say about this. **** you.

 

 

OMG! The stat system is BORKEN!!!11elevenses1!!!

 

But it is.

 

By definition, as per your subjective feeling? Or is it more of a group and a PR thing, where the system isn't working unless a majority of the entire group somehow seems to like it at the same time.

 

Go to hell.

 

Seriously, what the **** are you guys even doing around here? What do you want?

 

 

nerd+rage.png

 

Ha ha ha his rage tastes like sweet butter.

 

All I want is an intuitive stats system that makes some sense.

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All I want is an intuitive stats system that makes some sense.

Not sure I agree with all the nit picking you guys are doing but this line makes tons of sense.

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