Amentep

Mess up the 60s Captain America Cartoon theme song though - "When Captain America throws his mighty shield, All those who chose to oppose his shield must yield. If he’s lead to a fight and a duel is due, Then the red and the baby pink and the blue’ll come through. When Captain America throws his mighty shield." - just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Actually Duncan says Arl Eamon CAN send his troops in a weeks time. Just re-watched that bit (yeah the debate made me replay it). But you are right that Donall says the Arl was sick before the King fell. You could reconcile this thinking that Donall is saying that the Arl fell sick before word of Cailan's death reached Redcliff but it certainly isn't supported by what is said in the game. Duncan clearly saw a healthy Arl, though, since he doesn't mention the Arl being sick in any dialogue that I found. I don't see any support in game that Duncan and the Warden go to Redcliff. Duncan is clear in the voice-over they head south to Ostegar. Also from the way the game is made, the Warden is always picked up on the last stop. If Duncan already recruited someone from Redcliff - which he did since the Warden never met Ser Jory before Ostegar - why'd he go back to visit? The timeline with some of these events are unclear; I agree the stuff with Jowan seems hard to fit into a coherent timeline. If Jowan leaves the circle and the Future-Warden goes directly to Ostegar, then Jowan has be found by Loghain, and meet with Loghain to create the plot prior to the arrival of the Warden at Ostegar (since the Warden can meet Loghain there, Loghain has to be able to beat the Warden to Ostegar after meeting Jowawn and setting up the poisoning plot). Jowan has to be accepted as a tutor, show the kid something about magic (he tells the Warden he didn't teach him much so he had to do something), then poisons the Arl (some point prior to the death of Cailan). Its a pretty packed timeline from a mage-origin perspective. Bio probably should have done things a little different (like not made Jowan your pal, but used a different character, but have you talk about the disappearance of Jowan or something). The dialog I saw with Gregoir didn't imply he'd just sent a request for the right of anulment. Could have missed it though. It only said he was waiting the answer to the request. I don't think how long the mage's tower is under attack is an issue, though. There are going to be certain aspects of story that aren't going to directly match up because of the nature of a game than a strict narrative. Until you talk to the boat guy you don't know of the attack (so in theory, before you "trigger" it, the rumors of problems refer to the escape of Jowan). In a similar sense, the death of King Endrin was always three weeks ago, Redcliff was always attacked by undead not long before the Warden arrives and the Dalish people bitten by werewolves are sitting on those cots until the Warden shows up; that's just an aspect of the narrative being a game. Anyhow, with regard to Jowan, they do send Templars out after Jowan in the Mage origin, but without his Phylactary (destroyed in the Mage origin while the PC is there) he's just going to be a face in the crowd, assuming they ever see him *in* a crowd, since Loghain got him installed in the Arl's castle which typically isn't going to be the place you think he'd run to. I can concur the timeline of events from Jowan's escape to Jowan poisoning the Arl is not clear how it could have happened (unless you start supposing things outside the frame of reference of the game - including that Jowan is lying about meeting with Loghain).

As long as the companions are interesting and reactive, I don't feel that romance needs to be in the game. Not every story supports romance (nor should it).

I'm sure that type of health care might work well at the convent, but for the majority of the human race, sex and health go hand in hand. I think what WoD is referring to is that you don't have to have sex, whereas you can't, for example, stop your heart and wait for that clogged artery to unclog itself. Although then the argument shifts back to, in the case of heart disease (excluding genetic factors), whether poor diet is a choice (as many think it is) or an effect of socioeconomic factors (access to/cost of better, healthy food) combined with mental health issues (which - lets face it - aren't well treated in the US). Frankly I've always preferred the idea of hitting the pocketbooks of companies that do things we don't like by not supporting them to legislating them to do what we want them to do, although I acknowledge that sometimes legislation might be the only way to make it happen.

boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring Well...to be honest, I kinda am. I might eat something grilled.

She was supposed to be young for an Asari (106 years) and had thrown herself into proving her work after she'd broken with her mom. I'd suspect the intention was that she hadn't been in a romantic/sexual relationship before but I don't know if they come out and say that. And while I agree with the distinction you're making regarding the terminology of "bi-sexual" with regard to the characters in the game, I'm not sure that matters to the person making the initial arguments.

i. Okay, I'll go with that since my memory of it isn't strong. ii. Sure it is; your basic point - as I understand it - is that the game tells you up front the Darkspawn corrupt all they touch but that the game's don't bear that out. You're arguing, again as I understand it, that the game is changing its premise. I'm arguing that the game is showing us that the Chantry isn't right. iii. That's fine, I still don't see why it couldn't be a year, but to be honest I can't say it bothers me one way or the other when I'm playing the games. iv. Sure. And what the Chantry believe most of the human population believe. It doesn't make it true, but its difficult to fight against that belief. v. I didn't say it wouldn't. But even the Church would research the new relic just like the Catholic church researches supernatural phenomena to give a basis for Sainthood. vi. Well obviously we'll have the disagree; if the book establishes it did, somehow it did. vii. And what I'm saying is that what you see as "inconsistancies" are actually places where Bioware are telling us that what the Chantry says, what the Grey Warden's say may not be the truth. viii. Right. But you still need to get the Grey Warden to the Archdemon and you need the one Grey Warden to strike the final blow, so him dying before you get to that point would be bad. Like swooping. Right. I'd always assumed that much of this took place in the time that the Warden was unconscious following the Tower of Ishal where the Warden was "almost killed" followed by the time it takes to get out of the Wilds without getting caught by Darkspawn. I can't remember if Morrigan or Flemeth say specifically how long the Warden was out after being saved (is it just one day? Two?) but I do recall they say it may be difficult to get out of the Kokari woods after leaving Flemeth's protection and not be sensed by the Darkspawn. Since the remnants of the army have already passed by Lothering, I've always assumed it takes a bit of time to get out of the wilds. Lothering is already inundated with refugees fleeing the blight, as well. Since this is an assumption on my part, I have no clue if the game supports it.

i. Do Templars really cast magic, though? I confess, I never played much with the Templar template and never paid much attention to whatever Alistair was doing. ii. I don't trust the Chantry's account of anything in Dragon Age. They have too much self-interest (same as the Grey Wardens). Remember Duncan's line in the VO is "The Chantry Teaches Us..." which leaves a lot of room for uncertainty. iii. I don't see why it couldn't have been 1 year. iv. How did the Warden-Mage prove they weren't like the propoganda? The propoganda is, even a mage who is pure in heart can become during sleep possessed by fade demons and kill everyone. So the Warden-Mage defeats the Arch-Demon (either way) why does that tell the average, mage fearing population that the Warden-Mage has proven that Mages can't be randomly possessed by fade demons? Arguably, since Pride is a fade demon, the chantry believers would probably be thinking that it's entirely more likely having become a big-wig that the Warden Mage would fall. I'm not saying no one would think better of mages, but changing the views of people who have been propogandized by the chantry for at least 9 centuries isn't going to happen overnight, no matter how good the Warden-Mage was. All it would take is a town to be ransacked by blood mages and people would be "Yeah the Warden-Mage was awesome, but..." v. I wasn't trying to imply it wouldn't have impact, but we've already seen that long held Christian Icons (like the Shroud of Turin) are considered suspect. In fact I believe there was a recent "find" of part of the crucifixition cross that came under fire. Sure there's interest, but interest in this day and age is also tempered by doubt. And I don't agree that most people think Andraste is a myth in Thedas. There seems to be a lot of belief there. What the Chantry would want to do, however, is not announce the finding of the ashes before they'd confirmed it else they'd potentially create a situation where the site was ransacked before they had a chance to study (and control) it. vi. Don't read the novels, so can't make an argument about them. Having not read them, I'd have to assume that in some place the novels explain how the situation in Kirkwall lead to a larger Mage/Templar rebellion. vii. Well I'd rather not be forced to be a Grey Warden to be honest, and I don't trust their organization as a whole. viii. Yeah, DA:O where you have an army of people, 3 Grey Wardens (one who dies) and a party of "Awesome NPCs" to keep things going. And they still come close to loosing; the city is destroyed. And what if the other two died it, how would they stop the blight then if they only had 3? Imagine how dicey that scenario would be with one? Look I agree they don't NEED an army of grey warden. But having one is probably a better idea than not (and again, i think its in the Grey Warden's interest to make it seem like they need an army - it keeps their powerbase strong since, supposedly, they can't have children (morrigan-child notwithstanding) ix. Right, I know they were in the library. They'd have to be if they were to study them. Its only after the fact that it hits them they've been naive. As I recall, Duncan informs King Cailan that Arl Eamon is ready to send his troops if they wait a few days and it is Cailan who says that Arl Eamon just wants in on the glory and, essentially, they don't need him (oops). Remember the player & Alistair don't hear the Arl is sick until after they get out of the woods (in fact, if I remember correctly, not until after Alistair talks about the people they can recruit for the army after Lothering) Since Duncan's voice-over indicates that he and the PC left directly for Ostagar after the Origin was over, it indicates that Duncan was at Redcliff before the Player's Origin (which we know he was since one of the new recruits came from Redcliff). Arguably in that case, Jowan was captured by Loghain's men and met with Loghain while Duncan and the PC was headed to Ostagar. Jowan would have poisoned Eamon sometime after he arrived; we don't know how many days it took Duncan and the PC to get to Ostagar but we do know that Duncan would have been hampered in ways Jowan and Loghain may not have been with regard to travel.

In those kind of instances, yeah I agree.

IIRC, the penalty on Mage/Thief was that you could wear leather armor, but you couldn't cast spells wearing leather armor.

I'm not crazy about timed events, to be honest. I understand, logically, their appeal but they're off-putting to me when playing a game to feel like I *have* to do certain things by certain times, or I'm no longer allowed to enjoy my game/have to start over. It may not be realistic, but its what I like from games.

I'm sleeping. Maybe. zzzzzzz.

There were loads of complaints about them showing a demo to the press behind closed doors at E3 and not showing the kickstarter backers.

I. That's what Alister seems to imply, and the game supports yes. They lyrium addiction seems to be a part of how the chantry controls the templars (although its supposed to "enhance" their ability) II. I don't recall the intro being a definitive source on the matter, but I agree the gameplay and the story of DAO and DA2 supports the Darkspawn can't taint everyone simply by touching them. III. I still don't see the issue; clearly the timeline for DAO has to include Awakenings to some degree. IV. Why would it? Just because a Mage defeated the Archdemon doesn't mean the mage is incapable of being possessed by a Fade Spirit and killing everyone. Which is the worry with mages. V. I'm not sure I agree with your analogy. Muhammed's tomb is well known so its hard to make an analogy there, and while Jesus' tomb isn't known for certain Christian text says Jesus isn't there so its not terribly important to Christians. However we know objects (like the Shroud of Turin) that claim a connection to divinity are often sources of controversy and doubt over their legitimacy. For all we know the Chantry got a couple of claims a year that Andraste's tomb had been found (and even then, there are questions led by the other party members over whether its really her tomb or not). VI. I still think the rebellions were being planned; we know that there was an uprising at the Circle in Fereldin, the city near Kirkwall, Kirkwall, later other places. I don't think Kirkwall caused later rebellions as much as it was part of a growing sentiment against chantry rule of mages. VII. Well they're not going to be seen very positively if they round up everyone's sons and daughters, kill 66% of them in the joining. But I also agree that I don't 100% trust the Gray Warden's convictions. We know that the home of the Gray Wardens is more or less controlled by the Gray Wardens. Without darkspawn to fight, who'd want to be a Gray Warden and how would they keep their powerbase? I would not be surprised at all to find out that the Gray Wardens want to stop blights, yes, but aren't terribly interested in ending the darkspawn threat entirely. VIII. Yeah, but how do you get the guy there through an army of darkspawn that could potentially taint and take over the army of normals? IX. I'd still argue that its probably there so they can understand how to save people enslaved like that kid was. X. Actually I thought the ArchMage recognized it as well. Since the Litanny was read from the book (and had to be re-read constantly in the fight) perhaps its contents can't be taught? Don't know. Didn't bother me but I see your point.

Also America's insistence on 110V mains power. Ooo, yeah forgot about that one.

What do guys get that is somehow better, is the question that leaps to my mind? If you eliminate the carry over romances (because we're talking ME3 only here) then it boils down to Ashley for MaleShep and Kaiden and Vega (via DLC) for FemShep. Which clearly wasn't going to be able to please all players. If you look at the series as a whole and still eliminate aliens and also eliminate bisexual romances (since the person in question didn't like that in Kaiden), FemShep gets Jacob and Vega and MaleShep gets Ashley, Miranda, Jack. So you could argue as a series, if you eliminate aliens and bisexual romances, FemShep gets 2 choices and MaleShep gets 3 and that this is an intentional slight by Bioware (remember the claim is Bioware is misogynist). If you start factoring in "looks", though, it becomes harder to argue without it being a simple sliding scale of personal taste. A FemShep player not attracted to human "black men" would still have Vega in DLC; a MaleShep player not attracted to human "white women" would have no options.

And that's fine; saying Dragon Age is inconsistent isn't the same as "Dragon Age is bad because I expected it to be about Dragons and it didn't have enough Dragons in it for me." With respect to your points (and given that the system won't allow me to quote all of it): i. Templars and Lyrium The 1st game shows that Templar's require lyrium dependency but Alistair points out they don't really need Lyrium to be a Templar and in fact he never used it and teaches the warden to be a Templar. The 2nd game shows that Templar's require lyrium dependency but the champion becomes a Templar without using Lyrium or being Lyrium dependent. I'm not really seeing the inconsistency; clearly Alistair is right and lyrium isn't required to be a Templar, just that the vast majority of them are using it. (I'll give you the training issue - same problem with the Arcane Warrior class that there's no in-game explanation as to why those skills are learned. That said, I chalk that up to being a game rather than a book). ii. Darkspawn and the tainting of normals From my understanding, the Darkspawn can't taint by touch alone. The indications early on when discussing the wardens, and dog, the taint seems to come from intermingling of blood (which connects to the idea of the brood mothers being created by being forcefed tainted meat). In fact Avaeline's husband clearly takes a blow from a darkspawn that I always took was when he was tainted (perhaps that darkspawn blade was covered by darkspawn blood?). Taking that view, the biggest question I've always had is how/when did Hawke's sibling get tainted - there was no obvious point of infection seen (but perhaps the artifacts being dealt with were of such power it wasn't necessary?) Without understanding the darkspawn better, the answers are hard to see. iii. DA2 saying that DA:O happened in one year I don't see the timeline inconsistency you're seeing. iv. Warden as Mage and fear of Mages post blight The worry about mages was never that they were inherently evil, but that they were liable to be possessed by fade demons. So the Warden, as a mage, could - as far as the layman is concerned - still wake up being a demon tomorrow and kill everyone. Probably an even more powerful demon than a normal mage because they could kill an archdemon. So still scary. v. Andraste's Tomb My memory is that it takes that long for the Chantry to research and admit that it is the final resting place of Andraste in the save scenario. Been too long since I tried the destroyed. vi. Kirkwall's influence on the world Not sure where you got that but perhaps I don't recall it all correctly; clearly there are other mage uprisings already going on (the destruction of the mages tower in the other city, where you can help/turn in the refugees using blood magic) and the Kirkwall situation is only a part of that (but notable because Kirkwall is an important trade/port city). The implication I get of the end is that the incident in Kirkwall snowballed the already existing rebellion movements. vii. Grey Wardens needed to battle Darkspawn...something...something... Really no clue what you mean here. viii. The Joining Anyone can kill the Archdemon, but it jumps into the nearest darkspawn available and "reforms". The Grey Warden secret is that when a Grey Warden kills the Archdemon, its forced to jump into the Warden killing them both. So obviously, the first Grey Warden got Archdemon blood from a failed attempt by normal people to kill the 1st Archdemon wherein the archdemon took over another darkspawn and kept on truckin'. ix. How did the Tower get infested by Blood Mages? The books probably showed them how to contact demons in the Fade and make deals with them, one would assume. Now the natural follow-up question here is "why did the Circle keep books on how to contact and make deals with demons" and I'd argue, since they knew the ritual to break the possession of the one guy's son, that they'd learned how to deal with demons and their contracts by studying demons and their contracts, hence the books. x. Litany of Andralla How do you know no one knows about it (obviously people at the Circle in Ferelden know about it, or else that one guy wouldn't have died trying to get it to the top of the tower) and how do you know no one studied it after the battle? How could you possibly come to that conclusion after the game?

You mean X-Men Origins: Wolverine where the title specifically tells you which X-Man its the Origin of (and very loosely based on a comic book called Wolverine: Origins)? Not really a good example. To make the analogy correct, the title of the first game would have been Dragon Age Origins: Dragons.

I look at the cover of Dragon Age: Origins and think - There's probably a dragon, a sorceress, a knight dude in it. And its probably a time where dragons are important to the setting, because its a "Dragon Age". And that's about it. YMMV, of course. Although I have yet to see how you can see the title "Dragon Age: Origins" and think that its a reference to the origins of dragons as opposed to the origins of the Dragon Age (which it also isn't, since the Origins is a reference to being able to play the "Warden Origin" of your Player Character).

Well, not disputing that it could be bought (I have no clue if it is or not) but punching it to the goalie in the middle instead of the sides could also be from rushing shots, in my experience.

Or they could wait for the movie adaption... I hear the book is good, but it'll probably be some time before I get to it.

You could still get in on the "Greedy Bronze Bastard" tier, though.

Regulations? Shipping cost? £ to $ exchange rate?

Or the story could be about a legend in which the god-tiger of the realm was supposed to return and the calculations (ala the Mayan Doomsday) say the god-tiger is to return during the next 100 years and your story is set in a world anticipating the return of its deity and the period of prophecy is considered the "Tiger Age". You could even have the god-tiger never show up and the name would still be valid since it refers to the prophecies time and not the actual god-tiger. Logically, your argument rings hollow. How much Jade was in JADE EMPIRE? How much Baldur's Gate was in BALDUR'S GATE 2 (not set in or around Baldur's Gate)? Heck, you could argue, under your logic, that RETURN OF THE JEDI is a terrible title because Luke was already a Jedi, the EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is a terrible title because the Empire doesn't actually punch anyone and that A NEW HOPE is a terrible title because they never introduce a New Bob Hope.

Role playing doesn't require leveling up, so I don't think it fits "role play" "level up". Leveling up, is an abstraction though. Since P&P games didn't have the kind of advantages computer games can have in terms of calculating numbers, to my mind its a representation of a character getting better over time and use of skills and training. I'd argue the lack of a limit on skill utility is part of the game aspect - ie you have to keep it fun for the player even if it doesn't model real life.