Erez

What exactly is your point here? Longknife never seems to have said anything about the US. He wasn't even being critical of Israel. He was merely pointing out the fallacious nonsense of the video. The debate with Longknife - was really about the importance of US in war world 2, Longknife stated that russia would have won against germany on its own and overtaken europe, the evidence however does not support that claim. estabishing that claim is important in order to counter people from russia and europe who joins the iranian train of US=BIG Satan. my debate wasn't about Israel at all, while the Israeli treatment can be relevant to the topic since its also suffers from short term memory problems and giant amounts of hypocrisy like the US treatment - Which is why I brought up that video. this thread was filled with many Anti US statements - which are only due to hidden agendas(or not so hidden). agenda which found fertile ground in short memory problems and failed rewrite history attempts. In conclusion the Isis problem is not going away soon nor is The USA the Big Satan. Having well meaning, second opinions are all well and nice, the problem with many outside views, is that they are soley concealment for pretentious attitude and blatant hate rallies - Many of the demonstrations taking place in european countries consisting of mostly muslims and far left people - are very violent in nature. the people behind them don't have good in their heart the same way gandi or doctor martin luther king - those people are easily riled when someone opposite them demonstrate for Israel, when someone speaks for israel in the media he quickly receives death threats. There is also a lot of double politic game going on with some of the critic Israeli groups in eu/un which I will not refer to here, since its something a person must find on his own in order to believe it. The second part of your statement wasin fact very opposite to how israelis behave or think, we are known for not easily accepting anything and doing plenty of questioning. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22089936

The kill yourself satire part refers to if an israeli person saved your life due to donations or israeli help- the video didn't claim that only israel assisted people in disasters worldwide or thats it's even among the highers contributes, like you mentioned before its still a small country with limited natural resources(up until recently) and many economic obligations due to its surroundings. And yet you still miss the part- its not about how much Israel or the US contriubed to the world, its about how people so quickly dismiss those contributions when it suits their hypocrite. righteous agenda. I posted that video to highlight that hypocrite righteousness which made its way to the ISIS debate, and all the ridiculous mucking about how the US is so evil... If you are a person who lives in a western defined state then I recommend you do a severe house check. Longknife - your country took main part in the severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years. when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning. Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today.

....why are you linking a video that's blatant propaganda...? Go fact check this. I found a grand total of two technologies from that entire video that Israel actually has a claim to. (The farming drip irrigation thingy or whatever and that camera pill you can swallow) There's even an entire section that's essentially "we donated money to help with these disaster relief efforts (along with 99% of the rest of the world) and thus we are fully and solely responsible for saving those lives." And hell, the video doesn't even address it's own point: boycotting =/= you cannot utilize things invented by a country, it means don't buy from them. If we used the logic from that video, anyone who boycotts the USA cannot use light bulbs because light bulbs were invented in the USA. No, factories to make light bulbs now exist all over the world; we'd only need boycott the ones manufactured within the USA. Here Israel is claiming credit for many technologies they CLAIM to have invented but didn't, then saying no one is allowed to use those FOREVER without Israeli consent. Furthermore, having STUDIED economics and not just having believed the first youtube video to give me an onslaught of first claims, you wanna know the REAL countries you'd suffer from boycotting...? China, Germany. These two companies export more goods than anyone (mind you my knowledge on this is dated a few years, haven't checked in), so these two would be the most difficult to boycott. Israel claiming credit for all of that stuff...? In all honesty, if innocent Israeli lives weren't on the line and I were some kind of world dictator, I'd be tempted to boycott Israel just to spite that video and watch their stupid asses (<---- again speaking hypothetically, as realistically no an entire nation doesn't deserve this name on behalf of one idiot with a video making bold inaccurate and self-serving claims) starve to death or get immediately killed and swallowed by the rest of the Middle East. EDIT: sorry, I would've tabbed out to fact check this before, but apples wonderful tablet tech deletes my post if I do so half the time. Thanks Apple for focusing more on making a flashy OS and UI rather than a practical one. You piece of ****. Anyways: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports Germany has fallen behind a tad, though the EU as a collective have not. Yes, Germany is ****ing scary insane when you consider their relative size and how much they export. Believe it or not, Germany was #1 until about 2009, meaning 83 million Germans were producing and exporting more goods than about 2 billion Chinese. There's a reason the old saying exists: "Normal people work to live, Germans live to work." And living here I can promise you, yes the culture is just as uptight and anal retentive as you'd expect from those numbers. :D If you want to locate your precious Israel with their bold claims of responsibility for all the great products we use, you'll find them at the ever-so-important ranking of 51st largest exporter in the world. WOW! How could we survive without them!? Bonus points for being two ranks lower than Iran. You obviously missed the point of this video, I am not going to debate what was or what wasn't invented in israel, For its size. the jewish population in Israel have invented many new inventions that benefit people all across the world. This is a fact. The purpose of this video was to show the hypocrisy people show regarding US foreign policies or Foreign policies in general, one one hand people love to enjoy the goods and benefits of these actions, on the other hands they love the feeling of righteousness whenever they shower upon others their 'morale' superiority. Its easy to be morale superior when you aren't the one paying the bill or dealing with the consequences Your distasteful post, where you claim you might end up doing just for spite. And Just for reference, there is a big different between developed and exported, the video mostly regards technologies being developed in Israel, your remark regarding Israel export scale is irrelevant. Most of China export industry is based on products developed in other countries and manufactured in China. And yes, if you really want to boycott US, dont buy light bulbs or work, befriend or buy items from people who use lightbulbs, otherwise your boycott is devoid of any higher morale ground. The treatment people give The US regarding the ISIS and global affairs is so hypocrite, It makes me wonder the state of video games, Mainly i just blame bioware for it due to their gaming agenda "your choices don't really matter... "

You fail to miss the point regarding when this help was delivered and focus only on the total %, you fail to take under consideration the quality of the trucks given freely from the US in comparison to the trucks taken from agriculture. more so the trucks taken as war loot were only taken after Russia has started to beat the German in the east front. None of this would have happened without the US help which was given to Russia at a critical point of the war and managed to turn the tide. Without the us help both Britian and Russia would have fallen before a single soldier of the us landed in North Africa and started swinging the tide. Claiming that Russia and the UK would have survived without the us in world war 2 is delusional, they simply would not have the tools to finish the job on their own to compete with the superior German industry. The US may or may no have lost in case of an attempted german invasion, the us never had a risk of being invaded in the 20 century, bring the required amount of forces abroad and maintaining the required supply line is a tremendous effort and therefor The Us was much more secure in comparison.

First up - props for having the stamina to deal with this.. but US saving Russia.. From what? Germany? We were so lucky that those two states decided to murder each other, if not then Europe would have been a dictatorship, facist or communist... America didn't win this war, they swept up the remains. What they did do however was win the postwar cleanup, the Marshall aid etc was a genius move and the treatment of Germany was really inspiring - and to many in Europe the reason why we still rally behind 'em. But saying that America saved Russia is a joke, they broke Germany's back almost completely on their own. Luckily for us they they almost broke their own back in the effort and were weakened enough not to take us on afterwards. Without US accomplishments in the war Russia would have lost, as nazi germany would have only one front to focus on. Even before the united states joined the war, they sent extensive aid in form of oil and military equipment and other goods to russia and Britian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease. The scorched earth policy wouldn't have been as effective without this aid. At the end of war world 2, russia was at a much weaker state in comparasion to the US due to war fatigue. Losses for russia amounted to 26.6 million people, just imagine how high they would have been without all of this help. The us economic might is what won world war 2 and saved Russia, the same economic might so scorned upon by obykven. It's hypocrisy at its highest form and kind of reminds me of this video

Medieval backward jihadists is better than tolerant democratic hi-tec Iran. Obvious Zionist so obvious. Similarity between zionists and jihadists. 1. Both prevent progress in Middle Eastern countries, both kill scientists, teachers and destroy schools. The goal - Muslims must be backward hopeless losers. 2. Both spreading hate and war between different branches of Islam. The goal - Muslims must be divided and weakened. 3. Both make war against secular governments of Syria, Lybia and Egypt. The goal - enemies of Israel must be exterminated. 4. Both make war against Left freedom fighters as FATAH or PKK. Even more - all these jihadists has been created during Cold War as weapon against Left movements. The goal - - prevent progress of Humanity and World Revolution by any cost. 5. etc. Meanwhile Iranian Shia Islam is one of most tolerant and democratic branch of Islam. Iran is a prosperous progressive science-advanced country with highly educated tolerant society. Butthut of bunch of Zionist invaders caused by this independent country is not reason for me to dislike of Iran. http://vimeo.com/105001986 Yes I am a proud Zionists and pro west, Just as you are a proud anti west, your anti American - European views are so blatant and stinks of hypocrite. You forget that it was america who saved Russia in 1945, you forget that until 1945 it was Russia who was the most devoted fighter against Jihadic forces - (and maybe it's still is, who knows whats really going on with backroom politics) you live in a fairyland where everything is purple and blue with fluffy rainbows - ignoring what you want about reality and filling the void with hate on the rest. So Iran the state standing behind one of the world biggest crime syndicates and terror organizations (Hezbollah) And Hamas - Who encourage children to blow buses- Are your example of good folks? Iran which constantly preach death to the west and destruction of Israel? Iran which bans all freedom of nonmuslims in its country and quickly oppress ideas which are different from its own? Seriously? Dont believe me? Thats fine, just look for some videos about their leader repeated speeches in the internet. You should also know that by using Western invented technology - you are making youself an easy target for the west ' devilish claws' Thats mean, No google, no internet, no facebook, no intel hardware, no mac or windows, I wouldn't trust linux either. Basically don't use any computers. I would also be wary about other items, mostly medical. But it should be obvious for any anti west - that the computers are its greatest form of spreading it's 'devilish ways'

Listen to yourself, US is not the big satan, it never was. Did bad things happen under the US regime in the past? Of- course. But the good by far outdo the worse. Any attempt to to bash the US by demonizing it is an hypocrite attempt and a blatant release of responsibilities of the same countries who call the US the big satan in the first place, Many of those countries would do a lot better if they start to make the life in their own countries better by actually working to make it better. And let me tells you a secret - Wars are never clean, but wars are sometimes inevitable. Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right (for your society) and make a stand. Yes, the US was never the great satan in reality, because satan is an abstract religious concept. They did however **** unashamably and repeatedly with Iran in their own narrow interests, inflicting thirty years of the Shah's reactionary, supine totalitarianism on them. Any benefit to the country being intervened in from US intervention is wholly coincidental. Look at the last five interventions done, Kosovo, klepto state whose economy is based on smuggling and having lots of NATO troops stationed there, also utterly illegal*; Afghanistan, basket case though at least it was so before intervention, will go back to civil war; Iraq, went from a country with one of the highest education, best health service and acceptance of women in the ME to a poor, strife torn, semi medieval mess under the tender ministrations of the US; Libya, trashed, went from having one of the best education and health systems to a playground for yet more proxy wars between the absolute monarchs of the gulf; ISIS, unknown but the record is terrible and similar programs in Pakistan and Yemen (two more stellar examples) have failed utterly to fix things at all, they've just undermined the states' authority repeatedly. Libya, Iraq, Syria all had problems before interventions but they also had pretty good- for the region- education, health and policies towards women. They still have the same problems of repression and random brutality that previously existed, to much greater levels since by and large keeping your head down meant you escaped notice and now even that doesn't work, but have also lost the benefits Hussein, Assad and Gaddafi brought with no commensurate gains except some nebulous idea of being free to get blown up by whatever flavour of nutbar militant is currently strutting their stuff. Now sure, for someone from Israel the US is a net good for obvious reasons. If you're in a country which has been the target of one of the US's failed interventions on the other hand you're not going to view them so highly at all. *or rather 'legal' per a friendly ruling, but since Crimea followed the same methodology that's been forgotten as has that the precedent was set by the west. Lets make a few things straight - when you are talking about post 1945 US. You are really talking about UK-France-Canada-Australia-US coalition with many other countries such as Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Israel, Switzerland, South Africa, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Ireland, new Zeland enjoying the results. There is no denial that this coalition has put and supported dictators in the middle east, north Africa, south america and central america and still does. The argument here is if those actions make the coalition and their supportive states and all of their original inhabitants are evil and worthy of infidel death. Was the Shah's regime perfect? I suppose not- Why did the western coalition think it was best to have a dictator rule iran at the time and not promote democracy. Different countries around the world are always struck in a struggle to survive - The western countries survival is not guaranteed, countries changed across human history more than once with their entire populations massacred, raped, enslaved or located elsewhere. The times before the collapse of the soviet dictatorship(it wasn't communism) Were times(not too different from today) where stability had to be maintain in order to protect the west interest. The middle east was never stable, Islam and Christianity are at constant war since the rise of Islam. the only way to ensure higher stability with the population the population in that area and safeguard energy interests was to support dictators - It was the cheapest and safest solution for the west. the other more expensive solution would have been to control those countries with military strength as giving up those energy resources and allowing them to fall into the hands of their enemies would have hasten the west demise. Saddam - Was not a good person and was not the western states friend. the chaos in the Muslim states is not because of the actions of the west. Its because their society is based more around families and less around the Idea of a state or ideology - The arab society is a society of big families - Hamulot - This encourage a larger amount of opinions, and reduce political strength. they tend to think more about their families and less about their countries. This is why its harder to see an uprising for the benefit of society as a whole in those countries and instead you see can see a small group like the Hamas Or Isis controlling with a very small number of soldiers. People are less likely to sacrifice themselves for the Idea of a country, for the idea of the greater good as they are family driven - God driven. Its not the West which is responsible for the current demise the problems are much deeper and rooted in thought processes of thousands. You here about them more now only because water and land are much more scare then they were in the past and because no one covered the first jihads.

Listen to yourself, US is not the big satan, it never was. Did bad things happen under the US regime in the past? Of- course. But the good by far outdo the worse. Any attempt to to bash the US by demonizing it is an hypocrite attempt and a blatant release of responsibilities of the same countries who call the US the big satan in the first place, Many of those countries would do a lot better if they start to make the life in their own countries better by actually working to make it better. And let me tells you a secret - Wars are never clean, but wars are sometimes inevitable. Sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right (for your society) and make a stand.

I don't know where you got this false information, wild dogs keep their heads down all of them time when the odds are against them, In israel we have one mad dog at the north - sponsored by Iran, we haven't heard from them on a big scale in 8 years due to their troubles up north. And in our southern-western border we have state of hamastan - sponsored by Iran, qatar and turkey - they never find a 100% of the time, they only fight when they are trying to achieve something. Isis - sponsored by qatar, saduia arabia, united emirates - aren't very different, right now things are looking good in their favor and therefor they have no reason to stop fighting now. Its a bit like mount and blade really, Right now they are fighting for recognition, once they feel they have bitten more than they can chew they will work for a cease fire, But as long as they are working in sunni dominated lands with plenty of outside support from european sunnis; and the sponsors I mentioned above, they have no reason to stop. Warfare is much like football-soccer in many ways. You won't hear any real criticism or actions about the sponsors due to two main reasons. 1) Countries must have Oil and gas to survive 2) Iran is far more dangerous to the west than Qatar or Saudi arabia are. For Iran-The sponsor behind assad, Hezbollah and Hamas up until recently US is the big Satan.

Its much easier and more convenient to place the blame on the united states for terrorists. sure as hell beats starting to develop any sense of social-civil responsibility in those states. more to the point, bad things happened in those states long before the US arrived, we are talking about times long before 1945.

Those guys weren't sweet puppies and have repeatedly supported terror through financing and other acts. The assad family regime is part of the reasons why hezbollah is one of the biggest crime and terror organizations active today. http://www.standupamericaus.org/world-events/hezbollahs-bank-world-wide-crime-syndicate/ where in what i wrote did you read that they were good people? i said they held the leash of organizations like hezbollah, al quaeda, ISIS etc within their own countries, and these orgs are now loose. I don't really see where you are going with this, whats the difference between a sadistic maniac holding the leash of a mad dog and a a free mad dog? Don't worry i will tell you that part. Its the hot chicks Isn't it funny what name the mirror picked for gaddafi? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/libya-colonel-gaddafi-supported-terror-149208. Do you remember what the news papaers said about obamma and his red lines a few years ago regarding intervention in syria? And did you read why hezbollah became such a prominent crime organization in europe? I will give you a hint, its because of of some explosive parties in the 80's...

Repeated Bombings of Isis, will not be very effective due to the high sunni support for the current Isis jihad, mainly among the iraqi, syrian and turkish, sunni population.

Those guys weren't sweet puppies and have repeatedly supported terror through financing and other acts. The assad family regime is part of the reasons why hezbollah is one of the biggest crime and terror organizations active today. http://www.standupamericaus.org/world-events/hezbollahs-bank-world-wide-crime-syndicate/

What is it you choose to criticize here? That the usa should have intervened less and let assad, hezbollah and Iran do what they always had or that the usa should have intervened more by sending troops to fight in without any direct connection to them? Situation is complicated, no one can tell with confidence what is the smart thing to do, and more so no one can tell with confidence what is the morally right thing to do since morale will always depend on the beholder. One thing i can tell with certainty, from my point of view it seems that no matter what was the conflict. The USA and other global powers have always acted in a way that suited their interest best, and those interests reflected the interests of their citizens. Including the Vietnam + Iraq Wars.

That may be true, but it sounds like you are so fixated on the obvious things in-front of you, you fail to realize the over reaching consequences of the actions you so easily criticize. Some people would fall back to a morale base to help them through hard times(paragons) But you chose to focus on the practical aspect(renegade) and therefor you must take under consideration all of the consequences of previous united states actions. ofcourse that would take much more than a few paragraphs and therefor not truly worth to bother with on this kind of debate.