Helm

In "vendor trash" would you include gems and non magic jewellry? While in general, I agree with the principle of getting rid of peoples collections of harpy toenails or whatever which merchants for some reason find highly desirable, getting rid of gems would be a shame as they are a fun bit of classic adventuring fodder. On that note, what I would like to see is actually have a couple of divisions for specific kinds of inventory that overly clutter the thing otherwise. Specifically, I'd like a "keyring" rather than each individual key you pick up taking up one whole inventory slot, there isn't really any need to have each one take up a slot. Stick them automatically to the keyring and then you don't have to worry about them. Similarly with my gems/non magic jewellry, have a gem bag as a default part of your inventory which all non magical gems/jewellry etc go to automatically, with a "sell all" button at the bottom when trading. I think at least one of the Dragon Age games did that, but to combine it with specifically jewels etc slightly kills two birds with one stone - keeps the fun/archetypal fantasy thing of getting gems while also eliminating the hassle of selling them all individually. Besides, you can easily image the average adventurer just going up to a merchant, emptying his sack out on the table and going "how much?" rather than individually going "how about this one? and this one? and this one?...." I agree with you on everything except for the gem bag. I want to find/buy a gem bag and improve my inventory with it. I just really, really love to build my character.

You forgot my parents, they saw it too. You know, of he who hates Baldur's Gate but loves Skyrim.

Undead Game Developer Skulllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This thread is to discuss the inventory mechanics described briefly in update #36: Equipment and "Top of Pack" resemble the inventory system used in the IE games. The unlimited "stash" however is new. According to Josh Sawyer this unlimited inventory mechanic has been proposed in order to remove the "degenerative action" of "players making five trips in and out of a dungeon after clearing it to haul all of the loot out". I am personally on the fence about this mechanic and agree with the opinion of other fans that this mechanic might be watering down the inventory mechanics by removing the ability to build the inventory of your party/character, e.g. improving your carry weight or inventory size, and removing decision making. As we know, building your character and making (wise) decisions are pivotal elements of an RPG. There have also already been recommendations on how to improve or build upon this mechanic, e.g. Beasts of Burden. While I like this mechanic, my personal favorite is the system used in Baldur's Gate 2 where you could find/buy "Bags of Holding", gem bags, scroll cases, and other goodies in order to improve your inventory. Aside from stat improvements that increase your carry weight of course. Discuss!

Way too small. This is better.

A deep stash is fine I guess.... but it should at least not have unlimted space.

What? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity Fast forward to :37, see for yourself. a straight up Name drop of TOEE. . Since PE will have the adventurer's Hall, where we can make our own party, it's not up to Helm to decide what MY typical party will be. . Does it? Do we know for a fact that Stealth will be in the non-combat skills column? I was under the impression that since it's tied to combat (backstabbing, Sneak attacking, combat positioning) that it might, in fact be classified as a combat skill. But we would need Josh or Tim to clarify that.... and they have NOT as of yet. 1) so I can expect this game also to have be a spiritual successor to all of the games that were mentioned in the video? lol 2) stealth is a non-combat skill. I have to find the source on that too I guess. 3) make the party combination of your choice (even if it is unorthodox). You should be able to do that. But it should make the game really hard, we don't need an unbalanced no-brainer system.

"Flame, insult, flame. Whine."Nothing new from you. You can't accept other opinions so you just whine, complain and flame. So you think that the easy and unwise path should give just as much xp as the wise and hard path. lol Decisions are hard. I know. Sawyers system really is perfect for you. Well, at least I know you hate the IE games (just like the other flamers and whiners here), because you have just said that anybody who liked them is a complete moron. They used combat xp and rewarded you for making the hardest and most demanding decisions. Which is BAD according to you. lol. Even the 2 most popular PnP games (D&D and Pathfinder) reward you for combat! According to you they should be the ****tiest PnP systems that everybody who is not a moron refuses to play. BTW, why are you even here if you hated the IE games and hate being rewarded for combat? PE is a spiritual successor to the IE games you know. (Ok, well, it was a spirtual successor to the IE games). Not to mention that you are actually the paranoid one. You just love getting xp for crossing an imaginary line and getting the same amount of xp no matter what braindead decision you make... and you want to make sure it stays that way. Flame all you want, you can't prove that quest only xp is better, because it has never been used in an IE style game. I can prove it, the IE games used combat xp and they were fantastic. Not to mention that combat xp makes sense in a combat based game. And it should stay that way.

And why should I engage in combat if avoiding combat yields the best results? I could kill in Deus Ex too, but why should I? Stealth yields the best results in Deus Ex. And why should somebody who hates stealth play a stealth game? Why should someone who hates combat play a tactical combat based game? Why should somebody who hates real-time-strategy games play an RTS game? etc. etc. etc. Read the rest of my post. And be4 "but i feel like an idiot if i play the way i want if i know that i could have sneaked and be done with it", whats the matter? You can't control yourself? That's the main complain i have seen from most people who hate Sawyer's changes(i don't know if you are one of them), that it catters to "idiots who can't control themselves" Sawyer said that if people avoid all combat is not how the devs want the game to be played, and if it happens it means they did a crap job. They just changed a "degenarate gameplay" for another. So he knows your fears and i'm sure they will try to balance it correct.Most of the problems you mentioned are pretty obvious, so unless they are complete idiots they wii see to them. I trust them. If you think that Sayer and Cain don't know what they're doing why did you backed it in the first place? In IE games resting after every encounter yields the best results.Geting the quest XP and then killing the guestgiver yields the best results.That's not how the game has to be played. Yeah, I couldn't control myself while playing Deus Ex, that is why I always used stealth. And I couldn't control myself while playing CoD, so I killed everyone who fired a gun at me......................................................... And you're right, I shouldn't have backed this game.

And that is why you could sneak past every combat situation in Icewind Dale, right? Considering how common potions and spells of invisibility were... yes. lol But everyone had Sneak as an ability in TOEE (for example).... a game specifically named-dropped in the PE kickstater videos.... What? Miss classic cRPGs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we! Introducing Obsidian's PROJECT ETERNITY. Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment. Depends on the sneak-ers, actually. If I've got a party of warriros, I'm probably not going to waste skill-points/level ups on advancing my sneak skills. Instead, I'll just build my characters up to focus on combat. But my Rogue and mage parties? Not so much, I'll probably level them toi be better sneaks, which means they'll probably not be that great in a straight up fight... which means failing a sneak check could be disasterous. A typical party will not be mono-classed. Stealth is a non-combat skill and uses non-combat xp pool. Combat abilities use the combat xp pool. Which are both filled up with quest xp...............

And why should I engage in combat if avoiding combat yields the best results? I could kill in Deus Ex too, but why should I? Stealth yields the best results in Deus Ex. And why should somebody who hates stealth play a stealth game? Why should someone who hates combat play a tactical combat based game? Why should somebody who hates real-time-strategy games play an RTS game? etc. etc. etc.

And that is why you could sneak past every combat situation in Icewind Dale, right? I imagine death is a very real possibility, yes, if you built your party up to rely on stealth, and didn't prepare to have to fight...and then you failed to successfully sneak past that massive encounter....and now you have to fight... Death is a very real possibilty by just engaging in combat without sneaking. By sneaking this possibility is only minimized.

Are you claiming that you have a better idea of what the relative difficulty of sneaking as opposed to fighting is going to be than the game's lead designer? Are you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance, by any chance? If you fail sneaking, you engage in a pointless combat. If you choose to fight, then you uh, engage in pointless combat. LOL. What a major difference. You couldn't figure that one out by yourself? My god.

Yeah, if you fail in PE, then you have to engage in a pointless combat situation. The morons who fail at sneaking must fight. I got that already. Stop repeating yourself. Are you are trying to say I have no problem with the mechanic, just with the developer? lol

No, let the game designer make that decision for you. Sneaking and avoiding combat is always the best option because it yields the best results. That is what you want, right? Easy no brainer stuff where the outcome is always the same... unless you actually fail sneaking and have to engage in that pointless combat. But then you can just Press F9 and reload.

Oh, there are quite a few that see it the same way I do. They are just not posting atm. Maybe they gave up, i dunno. Not to mention that you are constantly insulted by the combat haters for posting your opinion. The combat haters are real passionate and aggressive.

HA. You're stating an assumption as fact. That may be true in the Infinity engine games, but You have no idea how difficult successfully stealthing past encounters is going to be in this game. Josh has been deliberately vague on the subject. And for that matter, we don't know how easy combat is going to be either. Sawyer has already described the sneak mechanic a little. Check the links I posted (the one you apparetnly refused to check). And why is sneaking so much more demanding? LOL. If you fail sneaking, then you just have to fight. Wow, what a demanding mechanic. Underlined, bolded, italicised, and increased the size on that one for you. Stun is right, Sawyer has been deliberately vauge on the actual mechanics for sneaking. Nowhere in those links you put up was the actual gameplay mechanic for sneaking explained. We know very little about what it will take to sneak and what the consequence for failing to sneak after attempting it will be. I feel that you are assuming a lot here. And the reason you keep having to repeat yourself is that you have scant little evidence for the bold claims that you keep repeating. (Hint: People don't agree/believe you) But he said enough. If you FAIL SNEAKING, then you just have to engage in pointless combat. EVERY CLASS CAN SNEAK. Etc. my god. What do you think will happen if you fail sneaking, will your party instantly die or what? Not to mention that you can just avoid combat without sneaking. BTW, you probably do believe me (I don't think you are stupid), you just hate making the most demanding wise choice, you just want to sneak past every single combat situation and receive the exact same rewards for doing so. Yup. You are true combat haters.

HA. You're stating an assumption as fact. That may be true in the Infinity engine games, but You have no idea how difficult successfully stealthing past encounters is going to be in this game. Josh has been deliberately vague on the subject. And for that matter, we don't know how easy combat is going to be either. Sawyer has already described the sneak mechanic a little. Check the links I posted (the one you apparetnly refused to check). And why is sneaking so much more demanding? LOL. If you fail sneaking, then you just have to fight. Wow, what a demanding mechanic. You are 100% correct. Sneaking is always the best option, those who fail must engage in pointless combat. Not to mention that sneaking is not required to avoid combat. This is the twilight-zone section of the internet. Must be. Because just about everywhere else, the notion of rewarding players for coming up with more creative solutions to problems is actually applauded. In fact.... I'd argue that by keeping the EXP rewards equal, Obsidian is still not doing it right. Non-combat solutions to combat encounters should yield *more* exp than just mindlessly smashing every hostile you see. I don't know how your DM handled things in your Pen and Paper D&D sessions, but mine awarded us massive XP bonuses if we actually thought outside the box and managed to trick our way past an encounter. This really must be the twilight-zone section of the internet, because you refuse to read what I write. Not to mention that I am constantly repeating myself because of your epic lack of comprehension skills. If I make a wise decision and sneak past the guards so that they don't kill the hostages, then I should be rewarded for that. If I simply avoid combat, then I should not be rewarded. If I engage in combat to kill evil child murdering and pillaging orcs, then I should be rewarded..... And many more examples. I want to be rewarded for the most wise and demanding decisions. YOU (and the other combat haters) just want to be rewarded for sneaking past or avoiding every combat situation.

Oh yeah, 2 days after the game has been released the nexus will be full of xp mods to fix this abomination of a system. They could do it correctly right out of the box, but that is not going to happen as it seems.

Well, there are more links, but most of the info is in those. Just relativize the facts all you want. Sawyer could write something about this, but he avoids threads like these. So don't expect that to happen. Oh yeah, here is more about the sneak mechanic Yes, all classes can sneak (and yes, you can always sneak).

Who is the artist BTW? I really like his/her style.

It's a common symbol of resistance, check google image search.Though this particular one (white fist) sadly looks pretty much like the aryan white fist http://www.getsome88.com/shop/image/cache/data/p117-500x500.gif lol. That is bad. bad bad bad. But it made me laugh. And I just thought he was a member in a dart club.

Here are the links some of you have been bugging me about: 1. stealth is for all classes 2. no combat xp (because a player cannot stop himself from killing everything) 3. people will kill "just for phun" even if no xp is rewarded 4. your prefered playstyle will not be punished (avoid all combat or kill everything, it doesn't matter) 5. avoiding combat will not be punished with less loot 6. avoiding combat will not be punished with less loot or xp (at least not substantially) 7. avoiding combat will (almost) always be possible

^ Not how I solved the quest, but how wise my decisions were and how demanding it was. Juat like I said. If I make a wise decision and sneak past the guards so that they don't kill the hostages, then I should be rewarded for that. If I simply avoid combat, then I should not be rewarded. If I engage in combat to kill evil child murdering and pillaging orcs, then I should be rewarded..... And many more examples. This is an RPG. Character development (improving your combat (!) skills) is one of the most important aspects. You reward the player for making wise and demanding decisions. Just like it always has been and always should be. But this is not what we are getting.

Thats your problem. You want the game to force you to kill everything. How is that good game design?Most of the backers don't want that. No I don't. I just don't want the combat to be annoying and pointless. I want to be rewarded for making wise decisions, I want to be rewarded for making the hardest and most demanding options and not just for crossing some imaginary line. I just want what the backers want. A spiritual successor to the IE games. Nothing more and nothing less. The game only rewards you for crossing an imaginary line. What the game should be doing is rewarding you for the most xp for the hardest and most demanding options. But that is not what we will be getting.