Helm

100% agree. I am currently very, very, VERY unhappy with the "fix core systems of IE game" approach so far. I have waited 15 years to play another IE game. I also agree. I have no idea why Obsidian kickstarted a spiritual successor to the IE games although they think that the core mechanics of those games are terrible and therefore need to be fixed. The backers liked the IE games as they were, all Obsidian needed to do was replace the AD&D system with something else (with something at least as good) and everyone would have been happy.

Gromnir, we have told you numerous times that quest only XP and objective XP are not the same thing at all. Not to mention that that poll was take about two years ago way before anybody even touched the beta (and gave the developer the benefit of the doubt).

I would agree with that.. although I do agree with some of the nay sayers of combat xp on other topics.. When I see how disrespectful and rude they get I almost feel dirty agreeing with them on anything.. It also doesn't help that Obsidian doesn't make any statements about this controversy. They have chosen to simply ignore us, which adds additonal heat to these discussions.

That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie. I see you are in denial mode once again. Numerous people (even in this thread) have already stated that this game doesn't feel like an IE game. Even those who actually like this ludicrous game. Anyway, please be so kind and point out where Obsidian promised us a stealth simulator with completely optional combat, an absurd XP system that doesn't reward the player accordingly for his achievements (=quest XP only), a completely borked RPG system that suffers from cookie cutter syndrome and impotent attributes et. al, regenerating health and all of the other stuff that has been mentioned endless times on these forums. That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.

Inxile were very clear about their vision for T:ToN straight from the beginning. Nothing has changed either. Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised. Major difference.

Tell me, Helm. Why do you lie? Tell me Primejunta, why are you in denial?

Just skip the combat, it is completely optional anyway.

What a nice pitch! It's almost like they were thinking what a lot of others were thinking. That the crpg golden age consisted of some IE games that we all love and adore and they'd like to "recapture" (as they put it) that feeling. I'm definitely down so far... Well hell sign me up! I think the translation of this looks like: "We're going to take the best stuff from all 3 and combine it into one game." Again this is Obsidian's pitch not mine after all. What Obsidian Entertainment did not say: Strangely, I don't think they would've quite gotten as much money from their kickstarter. You know what with all the "new" ideas and stuff. Now mind you i typed all that with my tongue in my cheek but for some that stuff up there might be a deal breaker. It's simple really. The more changes you make to the "style" of the IE games the more you risk alienation of the very people that funded you making the game in the first place and although it does keep the bones of it's predecessors they've got a lot of work ahead of them to get closer to the "perfect formula" that many remember from days long past. Yeah, this can't be said enough. The game has nothing to do with our beloved IE games, which is not what they promised us. Sawyer hates the EPIC wizard battles in BG2 and also hates hard counters. PoE isn't a game for the IE fans, this is a game for people who loathed the IE games, for people like Josh Sawyer.

Less bugs, slightly improved combat... Game is still terrible for exactly the same reasons.

Yes, we want all of the forest critters like squirrels, chipmunks, deer, etc. to give 1 XP each so we can grind them all day... Nobody here ever said that they want to grind all day, they simply said that they want to be rewarded properly for their achievements, like in the in the IE games.

Hopefully this patch removes some of the absurd Sawyerisms that plague this game.

Killing a couple of Kobolds isn't an achievement. Slaughtering a Xvart village isn't an achievement. You going out of your way and endangering the lives of your party members is not an achievement. 1. Endangering the lives of your party members by slaughtering an ogre for combat XP isn't an achievement. 2. Endangering the lives of your party members by slaughtering an ogre for quest XP is an achievement! Hurra!

Heh, I sometimes wonder about the 99% of backers that don't frequent the forum are going to react. I think a lot of backers simply took the "IE experience" at face value and while we can do a bunch of mental gymnastics to point out this or that feature, at the end of the day it doesn't feel IE-like to me. Were going to need more moderators in a few months... The forum meltdown is going to be glorious. "POE, WHY U NO PLAY LIKE BALDUR'S GATE!?" lol

Well, I wasn't expecting Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests, I was expecting something that actually rewards the player for his achievements, which includes combat. You know, like in the IE games. Nice strawman BTW - 8/10

I agree - which is weird as I love BG2. But I guess it's only a small portion of its fans that think it was nearly perfect in all aspects. It was great because it was great as a whole, not because every individual component was stellar. I've never heard any fan saying it was perfect in all aspects. In my opinion it is the best game ever made but in the sense that, as you say, the game was great as a whole, not because every individual component was stellar. A lot of us think that Baldur's Gate 2 is the best game ever made, and that is why we are here.

Oh really? -> "If XP is what is necessary to make quests enjoyable, then you're the problem in the equation." Yeah, I can play that game too. The lead designer hates the Baldur's Gate series, so what the BG fans enjoy is completely irrelevant.

No, they are not listening and they are not delivering what they promised either. I didn't back an isometric stealth game with pointless and dull combat, a lackluster skill/trait system and an impotent attribute system. The game looks beautiful (thanks Kaz and Hector!) but that is about it. I wasn't expecting the high quality and depth of Baldur's Gate, but I was certainly expecting something with more depth than Dragon Age: Origins.

I think you guys are being complete douches, because you don't this to be a good game like I do.

Ah yes, another prime example of a backer in denial. Obsidian specifically stated that Baldur's Gate is their design goal for PoE. They simply made the mistake of letting Josh Sawyer (someone who hates Baldur's Gate) design the game.

Gosh, hard to believe how butthurt some people can get when they have to deal with the truth. Now your whining about the criticizers is even getting personal. Bug fixing is not enough to save this game, that is why we have numerous threads about the terrible systems design and how bad the game is. You guys should learn to embrace reality and stop living in denial. By the way, I am a backer. I just haven't linked my backer account to my forum account. It gives me the freedom to be extremely critical. You guys could have figured that out yourselves, but I guess you were too busy flaming all the criticizers and whining about their opinion because they hate the game.

The game is not only terrible, but it doesn't resemble the IE games at all. The bugs have nothing to do with the fact that the game is bad. Obsidian has absolutely no interest in fixing Sawyer's absurd design, so I guess you're right, it might be better to just shut up and watch this game miserably fail. So many people have dropped support of this isometric stealth simulator simply because Obsidian completely ignores their backers.

Interesting to see that the proponents of quest-only-XP are also admitting that PoE doesn't resemble the IE games at all. Anyway, this game was sold on nostalgia with very similar mechanics to the IE games. We are not seeing any of this nostalgia or any other similarities other than pre-rendered backgrounds, isometric view and party-based combat - it takes more than that to make a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Obsidian doesn't have any interest in fixing this game anyway. They could have pulled the plug on Sawyer's terrible design long ago, but they didn't, they fully supported him straight from the beginning. Whining on the forums about how bad this game is, and that it deviates too far from the formula that made the IE games great, won't change anything either.

The system is absurd and should be scrapped. An HP + injury system would be a much better choice IMO. But nothing will change anyway.

Not really, because this poll won't change anything. PoE will never resemble an Infinity Engine game and the systems will stay borked. Just buy Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition and forget about Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Dream RPG. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w17vHsQz5oM

Fixed that for you buddy.