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Everything posted by Elerond
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Patch broke Knock Down?
Elerond replied to Cronstintein's question in Pillars of Eternity: Technical Support (Spoiler Warning!)
My Edér can knock be down as usual. -
First of all just because other games were buggy it doesn't make it OK for this one to release broken. I am not talking about small annoyances nobody minds. I am talking about such core functionality like: EQUIPPING ITEMS, SAVE / LOAD. RPG's are not special. Think about GTA 5. It worked on release didn't it ? Yet it was far more complex. But that's a side issue. If you knew nothing about game development or programming this still should not even be your problem. You see a product on a shop shelf. You expect it to work. And please also note that it has nothing to do with my opinion of the actual experience which I like! It has everything to do with offensive release policy. GTA 5 was full of bugs when it was released. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exhMLCeP9Pc See like example how their cut scenes didn't even work properly, and that was one most expensive games in history to make
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I'd define a major bug as one which significantly impairs the core functionality of the software in question. This is a CRPG. Its core functionality is to entertain. One of the ways it does so is through the fictional accumulation of power and abilities. There are multiple bugs with impair this and they are therefore "major". So bad writing is major bug? If it's severe enough, yes, absolutely. Then I would say that your use of word bug is such that most people will not understand what you actually mean. Bug is generally understood to mean glitch in how software works, and what I have seen PoE only has quite minor glitches in its scripting and some bit more serious scripting problems that can in some cases force player to load the game. But nothing that seriously prevent most of the people playing the game. If you find game to be enjoyable because of those scripting glitches that is different from game having major bugs that would mean that there are fundamental problems in how game's code works and how it interacts with other software. Which are bugs that need to be fixed with hotfixes because they aren't just annoying but they posses threat for those who play they game or even have it installed. I would also consider bugs that prevent people playing game at all as major bugs as they mean that players didn't get working product when they bought the game. But scripting errors that make some systems in game work differently to what they were described I would not ever call as major bug or scripting that don't always launch correctly. But if you find game unenjoyable then that is unfortunate but sad reality when you buy entertainment as everyone has different tastes which means that every piece of entertainment don't work for them. If you feel that entertainment would had been more entertaining if it had higher production value that is fine opinion and you probably should look more AAA games which have much higher production values if you don't want risk you money on products with lower production value.
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I'd define a major bug as one which significantly impairs the core functionality of the software in question. This is a CRPG. Its core functionality is to entertain. One of the ways it does so is through the fictional accumulation of power and abilities. There are multiple bugs with impair this and they are therefore "major". So bad writing is major bug?
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I suppose the bugs with Windows, web browsers, financial planning software, big data software, educational software, etc. etc. were my imagination? You have yet to provide an actual argument about how a normal and competent development is guaranteed to produce zero bugs, and how each bug is clearly the result of extraordinary incompetence. You have also not provided an argument about how developers are meant to 'take it into account', beyond doing a lot of Q&A, patching the game on Day 1 and then in Week 1, and postponing the game for polish. All of which has been done. You answered your own question: do a lot of QA. Testing and bugfixing is an integral and ongoing part of the development process. To again clarify, I'm talking about MAJOR bugs. Producing complex software which is entirely bug-free isn't a reasonable proposition and I don't expect any company to be able to accomplish it. Producing complex software which is free of bugs that undermine the essential functions of said software for a significant portion of the user base is an entirely different matter and thousands of developers do it every year. What major bug you speak? Bugs that leave your computer open to criminals? Bugs that let criminals steal your money from your bank account? Bugs that let criminals steal your credit card information? I didn't know that there are such bugs in PoE can you point where someone has found one of such?
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A delayed release could hurt Obsidian's revenue as well, especially when we seem to be in a time of CRPG resurgence. When releasing software saying "just two more weeks" is dangerous because you will never have a bug-free product on launch no matter how hard you try; just the larger group of players when compared to your beta testers and QA team will bring in new scenarios that you could not have thought of or possibly tested. I agree that some of these bugs are serious, but saying that Obsidian should have delayed again to try and catch every issue while they have to consider competition, the cost to continue development and the financial state of their company (OE was planning on shutting down before POE) then it should be obvious as to why they released. If you're that hung up on buying buggy software, wait a few months before you purchase. A fiercely competitive market and unstable revenue streams aren't the fault of the consumer and they're perfectly normal parts of a free market economy. Obsidian may have found themselves in a situation where they had no financially tenable solution other than to release a buggy game, but that doesn't mean that those of us buying it owe them some kind of "forgiveness". We can empathize with their passion for making games and the challenging circumstances under which they have to operate while still holding them accountable for their shortcomings. Games are pieces of art and they work as they creator intend them to work. So if there are bug it is just because they are part of their art and you are evil person if you ask them to edit their art work as that is censorship
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THIS is exact the lie I was talking about! Espezialy computer games do NOT have that many code lines compared to other software. http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/ Quake 3 engine (just the graphic) a bit over 300k lines. Cry Engine 2 or Age of Empire online a bit over 1 millions lines. Unreal 2 engine around 2 million lines. Compared to something simple like Google Chrome which has 5-7 million lines ... Facebook 60++ million lines (WTF??? what for??? *g*). Average modern car software 100++ million lines. Games are NOT that complicate and most of the code is invented 35+ years ago and can be downloaded! And just imagin ... if a computer game with let's say 3 million code lines has so many (and sometimes critical) bugs ... would you EVER again trust a modern car software? With auto park asistent, auto drive (Google-Car), break asistent, lane hold asistent, routing-planer ... what ever . The second statement is, unfortunatly, true . But it hits all and everyone working as software engineer. In germany for example we have no spezial IT union and no collective agreement . That's why I stoped to work as game coder. Yea, I did this job 3 years. Up to 18 hours 7 days every week. The closer the release date, the more hours. I started it as I LOVE games ... then I had to learn the hard way what's your position ... and what the position of the publisher/investors (the REAL bad boys) . I decided: before I'm part of a BUGed release because of greedy publishers/investors ... I'll never be part of this modern slave holders anymore. There are software and there are software. Windows and Linux have millions of lines of code just for their kernels let alone software that comes with them, but they also have thousands of developers and they have been developed over decades (Most of your average car computers code lines come from operating system which they use.) Google chrome is also product of over decade worth of developing time and it has been developed by hundreds if not thousands of people. Game engines also have quite lot code lines, although not any where near the amount what previously mentioned pieces of software have, but they also have developed during very long time and by relatively large number of people. PoE for example don't probably have even 100k lines that Obsidian has written, but it only has under 10 programmers and it has been coded and scripted in two years. It is also made in format where some of it features are hard to test by automatic tests and going it through fully takes quite lot time from human. Difficulty software development is not only in number of lines that something has but how big it is compared to team and time frame where it is done.
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Patch notes for 1.03
Elerond replied to Sleazebag's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Because pre-buffing is tedious and if you allowed it you would need to balance encounters around this thus forcing everyone to pre-buff. This one doesn't make any sense(IN-GAME). There is no justification for this whatsoever IN-GAME. It is absolutely contrived. What, there is an invisible god in the sky who bans certain spells from being used until enemies see you? Please.. There are lots of things that don't have in-game justification but work as they work because of mechanics of game -
Patch notes for 1.03
Elerond replied to Sleazebag's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Yeah balance don't matter in single player games as we see that only half of this threads messages are complaining how wizards are weaker than other classes -
There are quite lot enemies and some armors (Exceptional/Superb Breastplates Fine/Exceptional/Superb Mails) that have either slash or crush DR and in some case both over 5 points lower than pierce DR. So estoc is not always superior, especially when you compare it to pollaxe, But there are only three type enemies whose slash DR is over 5 point lower than their pierce DR: Adra Dragon, Giant Dank Spore, and Forest Lurker. So Estoc is nearly always superior to Great Sword, only reasons to pick great sword as your weapon of choice are Tidefall and Justice which are quite good magic swords for burst damage dealers. Pollaxe is good secondary weapon for estoc against those enemies that are vulnerable to crush and those few that are vulnerable slash. EDIT: What makes Pollaxe and Estoc even better companion weapons each other is fact that they are in same weapon focus group.
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The Official Romance Thread
Elerond replied to Rosbjerg's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
There is one -
Your definition for game breaking is maybe too wide, because game don't have that many actually game breaking bugs (bugs that prevent one to play or finish the game). Game-breaking / experience-denying, it's a literal expression. And it's there not just for some people, but for many - and when other companies have similar-sized bugs, it's also a big deal. Having one is a significant flaw. Having multiple is an incompetence. Players have one chance to experience PoE as new and unknown, and delivering to people a result that denies them the experience which they gave years of monetary, feedback, and word-of-mouth support to receive is a disservice. My own experience has involved bugs, but I've found ways to work around them. But I know the value to people who wanted to have a PatD playthrough on their first run, and found it too easy and their experience spoiled due to an experience-increasing bug they didn't know about, and I empathize with them. I also recognize the difference that not encountering game-breaking and punishing bugs would have made for my own impression and experience. It's lost reputation, revenue, glory, company equity. It's suffering to see a company make moves which harm value that they seem to not have the sight to perceive. I still don't agree your definition of game breaking bugs. I agree that exploitative bugs can hinder your experience with game, but I don't see such hindrance as game breaking. And I also I don't think that first experience is that important (which is why I play beta, alpha and even earlier versions of games) although I admit that if your first experience is poor you probably don't try game again. To me it is more important that Obsidian improves my experience for future playthroughs and that game can offer me more than initial playthrough. I would also note that game can be too easy for some even without bugs. It may be lost reputation, revenue, glory and whatever, but it is also reality that they didn't had infinite budget and they had already run out of KS money. Meaning that they didn't have resources to ensure that game would be bug free, which is sad reality of game development and it also means that everything that they could had gained from delaying game more could also had meant that they would not had ability to release it ever. Also taking longer to release the game would not had necessary meant that it would not had those bugs that it has now as their resource would had been still limited and their ability find exploits and such would had been still limited. Also Obsidian has also reputation with buggy games, so one more probably don't mean lot in long run. But if you are person whom first experience with game is important you should always wait for some time (month, half-year year) before you play the game and give developers time to fix issues that are found by players that don't have same need for perfect experience as you.
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[Spoilers] Hylea
Elerond replied to Longknife's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
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Game has bugs that I encountered, but any of them wasn't game breaking as I was able to finish the game. Worst bugs that I encountered were such that they give you ability exploit them for your benefit (that can sometimes trigger even without knowing effort from player), and lose of some abilities that characters should have. I also know that there are some bugs that cause some event/encounter scripts not working, which can mean that player needs to load game from earlier point of time and go event/encounter through again. I also know that there are bugs or more accurately unnecessary information that is saved in savefiles causing their size to bloat. There is also some problems with some specific hardwares and softwares. And there is bugs that case minor glitches in sounds and rendered graphics. (In some hardware-software combinations these glitches aren't just minor) But at end in my experience game is not bewitched by bugs that one could say that it is unplayable for majority of players or that it has some much bugs that it is release is incomprehensible thing. But of course it would have been better if game would had been released without any bugs in it, but sad reality is that such is not usually possible from monetary or time perspective for majority of games.
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In end game you get superb small shield that gives +5 to all deferences, which means that difference between deflection bonus with it and large shield is only 3 points. Fighter have modal that gives +10 deflection bonus to all your party members which is sometimes nice. Also fighter can slash melee damage quite reliably. But anyways Fighters, Paladins and Chanters are best classes for tanking in the game. You can build them to have 120-140 deflection by their own and their other defenses you can build up to be about 100. Fighter has ability to engage more opponents than any other class and their disengagement attacks hit more reliably and usually with more damage than what Paladins and Chanters. They can offer little area support with one of their modal abilities. They also per encounter ability to knockdown enemies, which may come handy depending on your party composition. Paladins have reliable support auras, they have burst damage in form of Flames of Devotion, they have ability suppress negative effects that your party members suffer and they have healing ability that can be useful depending on your party composition. Chanters auras aren't as instantaneous as Paladins, but they have much more variety in them, and even though they don't have similar abilities as fighters and paladins their chant build up ability to cast invocations which have nice summon and foe only AoEs, which forgives quite well their lower melee capability. If you have all three in your party you have quite nasty front line fighting (stopping) force.
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Wait, really? Was there a vote on that that I missed, because I would absolutely have been against per rest spells. They're terribad for balancing and gameplay. There was no vote, but when Josh explained his idea for wizards lots of people were quite angry that it was MMO like cooldown system that don't have anything to do with IE games, which lead that they changed their plans and created more Vancian style system for wizards.
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Wizards are great even with slicken and ice fog changed. As Wizards (at least Aloth) probably will still be best end game class regardless at least until they fix those rings of wizardry, because 43 per encounter spells is just ridiculous and those 25 level three spells and 17 level 4 spells isn't bad either. EDIT: Wizards have per rest spell because that was what backers wanted, even though Obsidian originally planed that wizards could get their spells back even during encounter. So if you don't like current system remember give your thanks those who it belongs