Hassat Hunter

Let's ask me this. If NWN2 had an item called "metal block"or so in the tut, would you take it with you? And then when you notice 10 hours into the game you suddenly needed this metal block to climb onto something... would YOU prefer that? Kotor1 and 2 did quest-item sorting on a good way, Oblivion does, WHY does everybody wan't the ability to screw themselves over?

*Sigh* That was a reply on Lovewolf's "if the objects are quite obviously linked to the plot"... in this case this key was not. If I had stored it somewhere, who knows I could even link it with the door I needed to open. Is that me being an idiot? Maybe...but I wonder how many gamers will recall the use of that one item with a name like "Iron Key" 100+ further into the game...

Like some given keys. Tried to drop all for some testing and couldn't drop one because "quest item"... due to the lack of a decent name it took me quite some time to figure out for which of my quests I needed that one...

Just be glad you got there and didn't hit "bad design" on Telos Citadel Statin, Telos Academy or the Onderon Palace... which I still call bugs despite whatever people here try to tell me...

If you needed to be there. And that was exactly what happened in PS:T. With me (like said) 5 hours before I ever needed to go there for the first time for any quest... Not saying that that is, but if a quest (may it be secondary or primary) is unfinishable because the devs didn't take into notice one person may get there without item/event X while needed and that item/event cannot be regained/retriggered I damn well call it a bug... That's what I would call a "bad design"... You can finish it though, thus it ain't bugged... Another example of bad design would be the leveling system of Oblivion. It ain't broke (thus glitches/bugged) but just bad...

Slighty paraphrased? How about FORGED! I never even mentioned typo's... never notice them in a game nor being bothered by them... what DOES bother me is unfinishable quests/gamebreaking bugs/exploits and heavy graphical issues/CTD's Hypotethical, no (seeing as you cannot drop the thing)?

I read my posts... and read yours. If I state that due to design decision you can miss a critical item/trigger at a certain point getting you stuck in the plot I call it "bug" but you guys keep calling it "design decision"... And now something was bogused and it is suddenly a "bug"... where IS the difference between "bug" and "design decision" with you guys? As I cannot find the place where they seperate... If Alanschu tells me that the printshop closing in PS:T while you needed it for the main quest was "bad design" I disagree... anything that prevents continuation of the Main Plot is clearly an issue... also known as *bug*, as I clearly DO NOT BELIEVE that was intended at...

Ofcourse not, since it is DESIGN. Cannot alter that pinacle of Developer showing their uber-l33t skills in making inproper programmed quest that can result in a game-stopping glitch... EDIT: Not my opinion...but apparently the opinion of the "insiders"

Oblivion spoilers for SS in this occassion Would you as Beta-tester at Bethesda try to fix such things or keep them in masquerading it in a "bad design" mantle?

So if I ever find a game-stopping glitch in a game it was because the creators explicitely wanted it in there. I will keep that in mind with the gamestopping glitches BIS/OE put in PS:T and Kotor2... Ofcourse OE intended that we should never leave Onderon Palace if we said the wrong thing... silly me with my glitch/bugreport about that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug Read it...if that is too difficult here the main part: Edit: And now please don't start the 'but it is fully editable and thus only the opinion of a fellow fool' crap, okay? Edit2: Report is a nice function, no...

Difficult when he doesn't even HAS that patch " The patch that might be his savior, while being the damnator of many others...

Good thing BG2 and the Kotors got rid of the speech attached to it... Still, invisible walls in TES... what happened to the true freedom promise?

"smart" things, eh. Well, if I have been into a game for 40 hours and then notice I cannot proceed because I sold the crystal to the seller and his stock resetted or he died an aganizing dead... or that I dropped that item because it was useless and now it vanished I doubt I will go: "Ah, it is the way the designers wanted... let's restart then and do it right next time"... I sincerly doubt you will do so either... And the situation I displayed was so because you said that plotcritical elements that are missing is dev. design and thus never a "bug" and I used that to make a comparement with ADVENTURES where that (using of plotcritical elements) is all what makes the game. If thus all that stuff was intended why does an adventure company has QA to weed out all of said "decisions"? Allowing a player NOT to advance in the MAIN PLOT due to a mission item/trigger etc. is not bad design that should be tolerated and be fixed either before release (good companies) or immediately in the first patch (the worse companies) And so does Oblivion and such. Would you really be happy if you were at half Baldur's Gate 2 and had to replay it due to "own stupidity"? And it doesn't even has to be items in journal. It could also be that in order to proceed to area X you had to use a lever in area Y. But that area cannot be returned too so if you forget or didn't knew you are screwed. Call it whatever you wan't but having stuff like that in games makes you get a rep of making games with Game-stopping issues. Which is alot worse than "that single wall is not solid". I also sincerly doubt any dev has an intention as to make players get stuck on the main plot... unless you have sadistic devs, but they would never survive long on the market. And that "bad design" is also called "bug"... There should be save-guarding that allow gamers to be always able to proceed on the main quest. If devs are not up to the task of protecting Quest-specific items someway they just have to do without, don't you think? FOR ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION...LET'S TAKE ONE OF BIS' DESIGN DECISIONS: PS:T; getting the love letter for one of the ladies in the Brothel. If you pissed off the owner of the print shop you could no longer do this. AND it was needed for the Main Quest to continue. Did BIS' do as Alanschu suggested and do a "own fault, you should have known 5 hours before you even came into the brother not to piss off the guy because he was needed"; Restart game? Nah, they added an alternative way of gaining the letter in in the patch. Clear enough now or still not?

How long does it take you to write GIZKA correct? Anyways, it sounds like you have the cheatnode issue so one of the upper 4 sollutions in my link should help (being re-install without patch, Gizka patch, no weapon drop and/or KSE sollution)

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=41038

If poor design allows one to become stuck than it is a bug. Otherwise Testers would never be needed on Adventures like MI...but they are needed, mainly to make sure you CANNOT get stuck in the plot by doing something in some wrong way combination (like loosing the cat to scare of the dog while you still needed it to hunt the rat 4 screens beyond)... Alot of exploits are bugs. Don't tell me MMO's where people dupe billions of gold was due to an oversight which cannot be called exploit. If it wasn't meant to happen it is a bug... because it is not MEANT to happen. Ofcourse with sandbox type games that is harder to define what is and ain't meant (since they allow players more paths), but with most linear games it should be pretty sure what should and should not be possible... I don't know how you would call it then, but I don't call that an exploit. If it is allowed by the devs and was intended then using it ain't exploiting. If the devs never thought of killing enemies by pushing them of some roof but they can it ain't an exploit. If you can get additional ammo by putting a single bullet of a clip in an corpse and get a full clip back it's a bug/exploit. If you can get 100's of a certain item if you talk to said person with a filled inventory (DX Oceanbase, Paris Cafe among other places) that is a bug/exploit. If you can walk "into" an enemy and blast him from the inside it is an exploit/bug. Usually these kind of exploits are unseperatable from "bug" anyway...as shown. There are very few exploits in games I can recall that ain't bugs... would you be so kind as to refresh that memory? But would that be an exploit? That is the question... As I already mentioned above I am not capable at the moment of thinking of some of these "non-issue" exploits... as in the word exploit already is included that you "turn/bend" the system to your advanchment, and that doesn't really sounds intended... PS. Not interested in MMORPG's... even if you guys think I fit in "the group"

Because if a consumer buys Pack X for PC (for 10 bucks less too to boot) instead of for console the devs do receive more cash. If both packages are okay that matters, if one is package and the other nothing...then the package matters

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...=37454&hl=music

It held the C&C name... just like this one does... Only time will tell...

I rather have a nice box, manual and added stuff than additional cash to the devs IF the prices are exactly the same for both...

Still as mean as in thread 1 it seems... [surprised statement] No PNJ? I would have expected hell to break loose... EDIT: Currently playing (in order of time/importance) Enemy Territory Unreal Tournament 2004 Oblivion

Being?

Sorry, but your card is unsupported, as seen by the First time I have seen somebody on the boards display that message. Only thing I would suggest is trying 1.0B (you currently have 1.0A) (and get the Gizka fixes afterwards) as it should fix some Intel issues that makes Kotor2 in a pseudo Kotor2 1.2 state (with more glitches)... That's all I can think of, at any rate