theBalthazar

Already tested by me. Yes, It is disposition based of your Main Character. So !... Ideally if you want max bonus for all = same order for all, relative to you main character dispositions. (even if himself is not a paladin) If not you must conceed few points of defense. The biggest problem is truly for bleak walker and kind wayfarer. Impossible to conciliate. If you are globally agressive and cruel : MC Chanter, and 2 kind wayfarer and 2 bleak walker. Bleak walker x2 will have hightest defense. Kind wayfarer x2 will have low defenses. It is not relative to the character himself, but always the Main Character. Benevolent/Diplomatic : Bleak walker hate that.

Lieu : Description de Réflexe dans l'écran de chargement. [...] "Les autres types de défenses sont Déviation, Force d'âme et Volonté" [...] MP : Les autres types de défenses sont Déviation, Robustesse et Volonté [...] ---------------------------------------------------------- Lieu : Frénésie spirituel (panel du barbare ligne 4) "En cas d'attaque réussie" MP : En cas de Coup ou de Critique

Obsidian are not incompetent and lazy. They don't feel subtly the level of necessary nerf. The difference between classes, to keep a balance for each class. The best solution is to preserves a niche trump card. Wizard (High AoE damage, AoE debuff), Chanter (Buff, Paralyse) Druid (Stun, petrfication, AoE Overtime damage) Cipher (Charm + double buff) Priest (AoE buff + Single strong Debuff) Fighter (Safe single damage via accuracy) Rogue (High single damage) Barbarian (High AoE physical damage) ETC ETC. Each class have a trump card and can do the job for others domains.

Hum, in fact there is few cool stuff with priest. Supress affliction (Against afflictions) Barring death door. (Immortal) Triumph of the crusader (Strong +200 heal) Shining beacon (Debuff + Overtime damage) Devotion for the faithful (even if... now it is... just OK frankly for 4.5s of casting time...) Dire blessing (Perception inspiration) BUT... 3 of theses spells are on the same line. The rest... is OK but not particularly crazy. A +5 with inspiration is not bad... but... I don't know, you can take a another melee, perhaps would be better... +A lot of inspiration are already here : You have 2 berserkers ? Crusader is useless for 2/5 members of crew. You have 2 fighters ? Dire blessing is useless for 2/5 members of crew. ETC ETC. So, yes Priest is not totally bad, but he his not good. Low tiers is perfect for him.

True. I have just a problem now : if you have a zealous aura or stance of fighter. The true bonus is only of 5 pt. Not 10. +10 is really perfect, IF there are no stacking rules. 15 accuracy was perhaps a better choice, with actual situation of stacking rules and at 4.5s of casting time. Now you have two choices : 1) TAKE Devotion for one of your priest. But need 4.5s at the start of battle. And you don't pick aura or conquerer stance for your fighters/Paladins. 2) DON'T TAKE Devotion. You are free to use something else with a priest, or even don't pick a priest. And you take a free and permanent aura but you are only at 5 and not 10. Or Fighter at 10 with his stance. A lot of thing which are supressed each others. Boring. Personnally, With only a true gap of 5 accuracy. 3s is now a better casting time. 4.5s is too much for the difference. I am a fervent defender of full stacking rule since the very beginning with two rules to limit haxx : 1) Containers (inspirations / Afflictions) don't stack. (Tenacious + Strong) 2) Same nominative spells don't stack (Devotion for the faithful from one priest + Devotion of the faithful from an other priest) All the rest = stack. From a personnal perspective, I found that far more interresting. EVEN with again few nerfs (not a problem for me) !... I prefer full customization, always. Even with less powerful passives abilities. Because with that you have a better feel of choice and assembly.

It is me or... There is less difference between levels of spell now. Before, in POE1, that was already not a panacea. Few spell line 7 was inferior to line 5. But here in POE2, it is not... accentuated ? (apogee is... uselessness of line 8-9)

Obsidian don't like challenge. But I don't understand why. Josh Sawyer choice for casual gaming surely... But Potd ? Casual don't go here... Start is OK. But why after that it is so easy ?

. . . No. https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Relentless_Storm https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ninagauth%27s_Shadowflame https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Call_to_Slumber https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Gaze_of_the_Adragan

Yeah it is a problem with team building. Why take a druid with his relentless storm at 4.5s, when chanter stun and paralyse for 6s+ at 0.5s. Why take a cipher, when you have a wizard far better on all others C.C. and damage spell. I hate cipher since POE1. 0/6 in POE1, 0/5 in the team in POE2. The trues know cipher add nothing to a team in POE1, and also in POE2. In team building, EACH class must have a speciality AND to be efficient with others domains. That's why fighter is dead now : he was average in all and you cut his performance in DPS. End of the game. Optimal never will take this class again. All classes must have a trump card (here charm+domination) AND stay close in others domains. The second point is essential.

Same here. Shut down of my PC at 72°. (processor security) But, sometimes, stay arround 63° Weird... Too much use of one core. One word : division : p

There are people who do not want to cheat. People want in a legitimate run, switch at low cost. If you are level 5 VS 9, it is crucial... Plus, if you add to this, this stupid gap between official and hired companion... Perhaps 5-6 levels of difference.

1) Spells with "allied" effect can be turned self. So 1 allied target + a bounce on Caster. A way to increase all buff. With that, you have not an Area BUT an intermediate status between personnal and AoE. 2) A passive which allow Accuracy +5 for all offensive or debuff spells.

1 level is OK. 2 is OK. 4-5 is too much. True problem. I love use all members of my teams, test bunch of things with multiple associations (including guys stay behind) Massive problem.

Yes ! Why take kind wayfarer when you have this ?^^ That's why Obsidian will nerf it. That's why it is illogical to stay at 4.5s of casting time with devotion for the faithful now. 3s is enough. I don't want spend 4.5s for that, when for 3s I have -10 on all defenses and damage overtime. We can speak of blood thirst. I don't understand why there is no nerf on this... Far more problematic than minor nerf of beta patch 1.1...

Technically, If there is two classes to boosts VS five classes to nerf. Obsidian will more -boost- the two classes, less work (and less drama : p)

Devotion for the faithful is line 4, in 1.1. Actually +10 accuracy +4 might. (Doesn't stack with anything, conquerer stance or aura are supressed) Drain the debate arguing there is a psychological aspect is also a way to cut any comments : p. With that the argumentation is hurted by a bias of non-legitimacy (same than "you are a troll, I don't speak with you"). It is a bad approach to speak with people. We can also tell : and if there is a part of truth ? And if before 1.1, balancing was better on few aspect ? With that, the assertion is reverted. There is not a total and unniversal truth. Only the time can dispel ALL the psychological effects. Balancing is extremely subtle. It is easily far more harder than POE1. There are multi class / single class ratio. low level L1-2-3 / High level aspect L4-5-6-7 (Locked high level...L8-9). Class VS class battle. Subclass VS subclasses battle... There is also kind of use for a class. For example, a Fighter DPS or a Fighter Tank. Personnally, my main concern is more the role of each class. Because it is here where there is a chance to take a class because it bring something to my team. For example, chanter and paladin are interresting because there is a lot of shared abilities. So, even with a lot of nerf, they stay interresting. More "personnal" class are extremely sensitive to the concurrence. Mainly Rogue / Fighter / Monk for physical DPS. Here, the notion of trump card is important, if not, the numbers win. This special effect, this trump card is often passive (armored grace) or active/pseudo-passive (disciplined strike, cleave stance) and he is extremely important to create combination. Cleave stance was interresting because no one had this thing. Now it is only an addtionnal maximum attack. In fact, I think Obsidian should have give this thing to Barbarian (L5-L6) Barbarian have a crucial lack of active abilities (with passive buff) if you supressed all the upgrade choices. And for replace that : Fighter Specialisation : 15 % and 10 % and revert 25 % hit to crit to 40% hit to crit (disciplined strike) for the second step. To create the best wall VS one target. But here again problem : Paladin and Rogue are on the board... So in fact, the fundamental error was to nerf disciplined strike. A "safe" hit was a great added value. Accuracy + hit to crit on one target was the true trump card of fighter. BUT ! After the first big nerf (50 % to 25 % hit to crit), cleave stance was the only thing remains for the sharpness of this class. Without that. A rogue / Paladin or Berseker / Paladin are better (I think so).

Nerf, nerf nerf of 1.1... Yes but talking of ...boosts ! Notes : Barbarian * Lack of Active Abilities. Barbarian have a lot of false connection (Choices of tree etc.). But in fact, there too few active abilities. It is perhaps personnal feeling but... I don't know, not a lot of choice. * Blood Surge. 25 % of chance to gain 1 ressource per kill... For a line 9... During this time, for paladin, and line 6... * Heart of the fury. 4 ressources is FAR too much. Now ranger have 2 ressource for twinned arrow... So WTF ? [-> MIN 3 ressources...] Paladin * Sacred immolation. Without haxx strategies of barring death door and co., now 43 raw damage (without count +might), it is absolutely ridiculous. [-> 20 raw damage seems to be enough...] * Exalted focus. OK I retry : p : 5 % of hit to crit = 2.5 % of true critic. No optimal player will take that if there is no boosts. [-> 10 % hit to crit] * Exalted charge. Same debate. 10 % of hit to graze = 5 % of true efficiency (95 % of attacks are not concerned...). Don't worth 1 invested point [-> 20 % hit to graze] * Blood frenzy. I am the only one who found that upgrade of frenzy are totally useless ? 4 damage is not crazy, so on crit, it is worst... [4 raw damage ON HIT] Chanter * Set to their purpose. Return to 5 phrases. Actually not worth it at 6 (Phrase+1 for only one addtionnal inspiration level 1 ?). But also return to inspiration L3 ! But ! With a modified version obviously. like -1 ressource cost, or per 6s or per 9s or a thing less powerful than pre-1.1 etc etc. [-> 5 phrases and/or return of Brilliant inspiration deeply modified] * The dragon trashed. Intermediate position between now and POE1. Perhaps in the first, it was too much powerful ? OK. But now... Nobody will take that. [-> 6 burn damage, 6 slash damage, I start slowly...] Second part.... Druid * Relentless storm. Too much nerf = not usable. Chanter stay the king 8s+ of paralysed and stunned without interruption and... faster. Relentless is atually at 2s of stun per 6s with an average of 3s of stun per 6s with High INT. [-> 3s of stun per 6s, 4.5s with INT] *Spirit****ing. With a transformation you lose all bonuses of items. (weapons etc.) So, the minimum is to supress the time of recovery of transformation. [-> Supress the 3 ? seconds of recovery with transformation] * Create a special level (like knock up now which is not a real level of affliction) for PETRIFICATION. Actually, paralysed is 25 % of hit to crit ? Petrification return to the druid ONLY with 50 % hit to crit ! [-> Embrace of the earth talon : add a new ex-?affliction PETRIFICATION. 50 % hit to crit / OR damage x 2 / OR what you want] Fighter * Cleave stance. Take my idea of an another topic. Engagement become a stat which allow the same number of cleave. [-> Primary attack+No self-triggering. Engagement = number of attack of cleave stance. Continue to work even when engagement is broken, like one stand alone, in fact] * Charge. Add a fixed amount of crush damage. No maximum damage and no primary attack this time. Because when you charge... difficult to imagine you don't do any damages... [-> 10-15 of crush damage] Priest * Devotion for the faithful. If obsidian don't want to broke actual stacking rules with active abilities (the case, sadly...) the best remain solution is to down the casting time of this new modified spell. Because now, it is only 4 of might and 5 of accuracy if there is somewhere a free and permanent zealous aura. It is not direct damage or not even an invocation. No special reason to stay at 4.5s... [-> 3s of casting time] * Holy radiance. Need to be a better "lead in". With 2 Tree's choice, 2 new investment. [-> Choice 1 : Accuracy+5 on the team. Choice 2 : 15-20 Fire damage on all foes] Ranger * Concussive shot. WTF... need a boost of damage. Plus, this is only primary attack... [-> +20 % of crush damage minimum] Rogue * Withering strike. Good job globally for the patch 1.1 but... stay this ability... I don't understand the concept at this cost. And it NEED to be at 3 of ressources, because there is already tooo much 1 or 2 ressources before. So... [-> Base 50 % of damage ; 20 accuracy, stay on 3 guile] Wizard * Substancial/essential phantom. 6 seconds is far too much in the course of the fight. Generally you do that first at the beginning of the battle to enjoy a sort of damage overtime, and it is insanely long for only one invocation (VS 3 skelettons for 4.5s, which is already long at the start). [-> 5s of casting time]

Je viens de le rajouter, c'était une boutade : p EDIT : Et d'ailleurs puisqu'on parle français 5 secondes, le ranger serait très bien placé désormais dans le classement single class avec le twinned arrow de la gratuité totale. Ils devraient faire pareille avec heart of the fury, pour récompenser des singles classes qui en ont bien besoin...

Base ranger was always here

- Average between start and end-game. - Average between single (60% of decision) and multi (40 % of decision). Even if, like say above, can be cool to separate because it not always the same thing. (Perhaps I will do that the next patch ?) - Average of all tools, offensives, defensives, healing, armor, C.C., without particularly equipement except if it is totally related. (Like +1 PL for evocation.) - Always party, for me. (If not Wizard-Monk would be highter) - Tiers have no description. It is a feel of power with all the previous facts. Even if it is partially objective, all of this stay subjective, obviously. But you can see a "general" trend. Beguiler and Bleak walker will be never at the same tiers. It is obvious. - All of this is not serious, I do that for fun, mainly for discussion arround classes/subclasses, more than for a real discuss to "yes wizard is one place under x or y." general trend !^^ - You can do a list you too, or give answer to the questions of my OP. No limit here.

Problem, there is large connection between general nerfing and multiclass and singleclass. So if Obsidian nerf Fighter, single class is the most hurted. Why ? Because Obsidian don't use enough Power level and variables to create a true gap between single and multiclass. Gap between single and multi SHOULD BE automatic (25 % of hit to crit with multiclassFighter ? A variable on x %, 50 % for single !...). Here and now, if you nerf a thing, single class is always more penalysed. I am chocked to see how multiclass share 90 % of thing with single... Only missiles are -a little- different, but it is not enough.

No, it stay automatic, like pre-patch 1.1. For example. You have Engagement +2 (Abilities, equipement etc.) So in fact you can engaged 3 ennemies. There are 5 foes. You kill an ennemy. You are now surrounded by 4 ennemies nearby in melee. Automatically you do a Primary Attack arround you. You do 2 attacks. 2 ennemies are injuried, 2 others are not concerned. If we count the basic engagement (all characters can engage only one ennemy at the creation ?) and we are severe : Cleave stance doesn't proc IF you don't have additionnal engagement. So Engagement+2 = 2 attacks. If we are cool and nice : Engagement +2 = 3 attacks. In fact it is more logical because if not, cleave stance have no effect when you have no boost for addtionnal engagement. And finally theses attacks have no self-triggering, to trigger another attack. Cleave stance does not trigger cleave stance. With that : Engagement become the ressource to attack arround you, and you must invest or place equipement for that. All haxx is supressed : self-triggering, maximum attack. Fighter is not killed but need investment for a good cleave stance. And it is totally logical with the "spirit" of cleave stance (and the "spirit" of his upgrade...).

Nerf, nerf nerf of 1.1... Yes but talking of ...boosts ! Notes : Barbarian * Lack of Active Abilities. Barbarian have a lot of false connection (Choices of tree etc.). But in fact, there too few active abilities. It is perhaps personnal feeling but... I don't know, not a lot of choice. * Blood Surge. 25 % of chance to gain 1 ressource per kill... For a line 9... During this time, for paladin, and line 6... * Heart of the fury. 4 ressources is FAR too much. Now ranger have 2 ressource for twinned arrow... So WTF ? [-> MIN 3 ressources...] Paladin * Sacred immolation. Without haxx strategies of barring death door and co., now 43 raw damage (without count +might), it is absolutely ridiculous. [-> 20 raw damage seems to be enough...] * Exalted focus. OK I retry : p : 5 % of hit to crit = 2.5 % of true critic. No optimal player will take that if there is no boosts. [-> 10 % hit to crit] * Exalted charge. Same debate. 10 % of hit to graze = 5 % of true efficiency (95 % of attacks are not concerned...). Don't worth 1 invested point [-> 20 % hit to graze] * Blood frenzy. I am the only one who found that upgrade of frenzy are totally useless ? 4 damage is not crazy, so on crit, it is worst... [4 raw damage ON HIT] Chanter * Set to their purpose. Return to 5 phrases. Actually not worth it at 6 (Phrase+1 for only one addtionnal inspiration level 1 ?). But also return to inspiration L3 ! But ! With a modified version obviously. like -1 ressource cost, or per 6s or per 9s or a thing less powerful than pre-1.1 etc etc. [-> 5 phrases and/or return of Brilliant inspiration deeply modified] * The dragon trashed. Intermediate position between now and POE1. Perhaps in the first, it was too much powerful ? OK. But now... Nobody will take that. [-> 6 burn damage, 6 slash damage, I start slowly...] Druid * Relentless storm. Too much nerf = not usable. Chanter stay the king 8s+ of paralysed and stunned without interruption and... faster. Relentless is atually at 2s of stun per 6s with an average of 3s of stun per 6s with High INT. [-> 3s of stun per 6s, 4.5s with INT] [Work in progress...]

Good idea. You can also do : Base - Cleave stance Number of attacks = number max of engagement (Foes can be hurt even when there is no physical "engagement" (the link between two characters) but max possible number of engagements is the key) +No self-triggering +Primary attack. And here, engagement become Gold. : p People NEED to stack a capacity of engagement to increase the effect ! If you want to be strong with cleave stance. Engagement +2 = 2 attacks max arround. A good way to put forward a mechanic a little bit... under used in the actual system. EDIT+ : Engagement is not only defensive, because the next level, each ennemy nearby give -5% of recovery. So the "theme" is respected !^^

Andrea colombo is right. Brilliant was problematic. We are all more or less OK for that. But here he is simply erased. Weird. Perhaps it is temporary, perhaps not. ALL this game is temporary since Obsidian will finish his game at version 4.0. (after 3 DLC) So yeah, during this TIME, people PLAY the game. If not, your are like boeroer or sometimes like me, or others, where you hesitate to create a build with the fear of constant changes. People who like play with optimal style feel often like this. Play a RPG like this is an investment in time. A lot of hours to grow up your team. And personnally, I am not annoyed by an ability which is more viable or more optimal. But I think to the classes : My ex-team have 3 fighter for 10 possibilities (All in multiclass 10/2 = 5 characters) My actual team count 0 / 10 fighter. So... Question to myself... Why you do that Balthazar ? - Fighter has no longer any function that interests me. Simple : p And I love diversity. Ideally I hate to take the same class x5. But for that, the gameplay and balancing must be at level.