theBalthazar

Problem, this phase need a complete strategy and custom team. If you have no cipher and you are a glass cannon, you cannot beat the game. I also think to a solo player... who cannot separate people against sirrocco effect beecause... he is alone. No, this phase is too much hard. It is easy to say : I put in place a full perso team for this fight and It is easy "no need to nerf". But in reality, in videogame, you must always have a chance to recover the situation, at least once. Here if you screw, it is always over, even for an hardcore gamer. Definitely not legit, nerf is a good thing.

Yes but the main point of his argumentation is : The feeling of choice is down with this beta (was already bad in fact, but it is more seeing now). And it is true. You waiting a new beta with much promises. And you finish with few classes who have almost less than before. Casters side is OK (at least two good new passives). Melee side is catastrophic. Single class, single class... Yes. You have one or two more possibilities. But overall, at least 1 or 2 unique talents per line are missing. Abilities like Retribution, cleave stance, aegis of loyalty etc. This is true : I am pretty sure than all experimented players pick 95 % of "shared" talents when they build the fighter... Yes... Line 1 ? Knock down. Line 2 ? Stances etc etc. Becoming obvious choices. Even for single class. Specifically for melee (fighter is the worse) I can to be provocative : Why leave the choice, if they are not really. There is a name for that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice There is not this feeling in POE1 because you have a free big pool of talents. So yes, there is MORE talents in POE1 than in POE2 multiclass. It is sure. Class VS Multiclass (Don't stack all abilities of POE2, it is not the debate. Debate is Player's choice with ONE character, so one or two classes).

I give an idea, precise number come after, it is not my problem. You can down to 30 % the fixed variable, it is not a true problem. You understand the idea, it is the main objective. And if possible, with for each ability a clear indicator of evolution in sheet ability. --------------------------- Sneak Attack Damage under affliction : 60 % When you put your mouse click on 60 % : (tooltip) Base 35 % + Power Level 25 % Just bellow Power Level : +25 % When you put your mouse click on +25 %: (tooltip) (Single Class Level y * x % = 25 %) ---------------------------- Because if not, actually, It is extremely obscur if I am a three years child. I don't understand anything. Yes, but it is not a critical problem. It is a great problem if you have a system with full "Power Level" and all is dependant of that. Here, you have a part of damage which is fixed. That already cut back a little bit the problem. You can even put the cursor to 70%, 80 % of fixed damages, as your wish. Secondly, Atm there is no specifically major boost in Power Level. So it is not an argument. After that, it is more the choice of dev on the game overall. But this system is far more enjoyable than strict equility between single and multi. I prefer an open system than : - Awful stacking rules. - Locked numbers between single and multiclass.

True, when I have do the complete analysis of classes. I have found a good compromise : 50 % of damage. 30 % is too small. 66 % is too much because multiclass combo.

There is a simple way : Fixed amount + Variable amount Variable amount = Power Level. Like : Base 35 % Fixed + Power Level Single class level 20 = +35 % (=70 %) Multiclass level 20 = +15 % (=50 %) In short, you have less bonus than actual with multiclass level 1, but you finish with the same amount (50 %). WIth single class, at level 10, you have ~50 %, and you finish at 70 % atr level 20. it also means that the power level takes on a whole new importance ...

Power Level is already an underuse concept. He has much potential, but now he is just a little adjustment.

Boeroer, you are right and wrong at the same time. In fact, if you WANT min max, you pick one or two active abilities and the rest of passive. Problem there is no more full list and simply less passives than before. So, that's was there is this feel of "passives garbage remains". (Snake reflex, disengaging etc.) (and the true reason of my thread the other day : because I waiting true additionnals passive. Where I put my Point ? I want to hesitate you know ?^^ Hesitate when I choose x or y.)

If we speak frankly guys... Most of time, SEE your own battle : - 80 % of Full damage. (Yes... you use your power source... simply) - 80 % of trash mob so overkill increase. ~10 % of DPS loss (See MaxQuest post. More you have HP, less there are bottleneck effect.) So in fact, globally 2 weapons is always better. Only exception, few primary attack with high effect.

Absolutely not. If 2 handed is already behind... Bottleneck effect (Overkill) + Additive damage (Benefit to 2 weapons) + 2 sources of bonuses (Two weapons) Theses three concept put 2 handed much more behind than only... "behind". So, there is always a big problem with that visibly... Even at the start of the game, 2 weapons are first, by far. Eventually I can understand a predominance at the end of the game. But from the start, this is weird. Don't forget all bonuses from gear. Perhaps there are a majority of multiplicative bonuses, but we don't know. If there is +1 might by weapon, it is already a better double bonus. Except if Obsidian put better bonus at 2 handed.

There is definitely a problem with Stacking Rules and extended concept of logic. In short, i there is a source of fire damage, +1 penetration is possible with scion of flame. It is logic. Nobody will understand if there are "exceptions". to shorten the possibilities in a deliberate way with Stacking rules is one thing, not to respect the rules that one has to fix oneself is another.

Penetration + 1 is always ... difficult to estimate. So, I prefer the bonus of POE1, more simple to understand directly. An other solution was to do : +5 % bonus damage +1 penetration

Except this is not a question of optimized or not here. Blights can wipe out 90 % of my best teams in PoTD and also litterally my best team. You cannot do anything if you cannot move with any of 5. It is more a challenge, it need a special thinking arround to win. Seems a joke or an error. First april ? : p

Yes. But active abilities have now a problem. A problem found by Boeroer : You have a pool. So, we can admit (except if there is a tactical change to use, often with a priest buff/wizard afflictions with all theyr tools) that cumulate active abilities past 1 or 2 is a pure loss. Sadly. That why a "passive-active" abilitie is OK. (like disciplined strike, active overtime + Another active ability like knock down is possible ) But all the rest is problematic. So physical classes suffer more of poor choices in term of Passives abilities. Because quickly, you have already your disciplined strike + Your Mule kick. I prophesy a HIGH risk of re-train, when you hit level 20. Why ? Because, with this system, perhaps there are better active abilities level 14-16, mule kick perhaps become useless. ETC ETC^^ So, Active abilities have this problem. It is perhaps a false investment. Or a starting investment. In all cases : If in the same power source you have more than one pure active ability, this becoming a loss (FoD, Mule Kick etc.) Other point, charge seems to be buggy or it is me ? I click on this and nothing happened. (Never used in POE1 too so... perhaps it is me : p)

Lol. Unending recovery time. You cannot do anything to save the situation. Absurd. End of the battle. Blights > Titan.

Same feel here. Totally true. Few "lines" are awful for few classes. Line 3 or 4 in Fighter tree (I don't remember exactly but this is level 9 in Fighter multiclass). Difficult to pick up a good thing which is not "garbage" like you said : p Give the impression to... water down few lines. It is strange.

Lol, Obsidian breakdown with blights. I can't move : p Infinite recovery time. Josh : "Ah you want difficulty ?...Good... Wait Beta number 4." I was never completely dead (all my team lol) since first days of first beta, snif... tricky. Impossible to react in time on the first try.

So +1 penetration for each additionnal damage with FoD (fire and corrode = +2) ? crazy ! Ideally I would like always have this situation of combination. Discovery of good combinations of multiclass is what I prefer in that kind of game (like multiclass in NWN1 and 2). Unfortunately sometimes the stackings rules break a little atmosphere. But good news ! That said, that was only few ideas to put in a light what I say by speaking of "uniques abilities". Because if you add 4 poor and bad abilities, even a single class only invest on theses industrial abilities, nothing more. "True" abilities are abilities with a powerful and good concept. The new ability retribution for example, is the perfect example of simple and creative new thing. A really true and enjoyable ability. Duplicate old POE1 talent bonuses is not particularly creative. A cool thing would have been Snake reflexes = +5 reflex AND +1 dexterity. To make the player think. Guaranteed effect... But this problem is the same for one of the new proposition : the 5% of pure dodge is sympathic but not really appealing. 95 % chance that it does not fire... You cannot count on this. And you have also a 5 % hit to crit. So, of the specific part of hit. Like what arround 2.5 % more critical ? Dirty fighting should be at 20 %. And this at 10 %. Minimum... In the same intention, that's why nobody will never take the evolution of aura of paladin (zealous focus) But no, Obsidian refuse to increase this value. However in exchange of 2 abilities points (it is a heavy invest...), 10 % would be perfect. Ok, the first you have a package of 3 things (but only one active at a time), but the second invest is just for that. Same for Fighter. There is a bad gamer will take the +2 healing each 3s ? (evolution) Nobody will take that. So yeah, you have the illusion of choice but not really a true choice. +5 per 3s seems already perfect, sadly. Obsidian does not know how to lure the fish... The second bonus must always 50 or 60 % of the final value. If it is 35 % of the final value, it is more complicated. Especially that it's nice, but not totally decisive ability. Like often with Obsidian. So 35 % is not attractive. You can to boast of a diminushing return like Dark souls yes. But not with only two level of evolution like here. Dark souls you have 1-40 points to invest in one stat to start the diminushing return. In Witcher 3, it is not complicated, each point have the same value. Logical, implacable, indiscutable. In Witcher 2, in magic branch, "control over the power" for example is at 30 % of the final value with +3 damage at the first level (1/2) and +10 damage with the second (2/2). All theses examples work far better than Pillars for me.

Yes but I think he want to say, in this case, you haven't a big choice if you want to be a shifter. Eventually, a Fury have a +1 penetration with electrical. (But attention with stacking rules we never know with Obsi...) A non shifter can use what he want. A shifter... IS ON a monotonous highway. I don't understand WHY NOT new uniques abilities like : Passive. Sharp claws = Penetration +1 when shifted. Passive. Sacrificial restoration = If you reach the end of the shifting, you can reuse the transformation for half of your life. (Actual HP / 2) Active. Modal. Broken bones = +30% critical damage and +40 % damage taken if under an affliction. ETC ETC. It is not complicated to... create good abilities. It is only numbers and RP logic. Often there are not even a sound effect. (except for modal perhaps ?) So...

Yes I forgot the thing with Casters in Good Points. It is far better now. There are always few stranges choices (somes 6sec +3sec non legit like essential phantom) but "feel" far more enjoyable in the course of the fight.

My ultimate argument : I waiting one Single Fighter different than an other. Because with the actual system, all classes characters, EVEN multiclass, will have the same talents (passives abilities, and active abilities for physical classes). My words. It is an ultimate proof than there is a little problem with this system. FOR EXAMPLE^^ : Level 1, you take ? Knock down. Obvious. Line 2 After that ? Fighters stance + One style. ETC. ETC. You see now ? You are almost forced to pick a logical choice. And quickly, for few lines, there are no "true choices" remains ! Only the wizard escape this phenomenon with a lot of active spells.

Good question. I have not proceed to a test for that. But if theses damages are calculted in "reported pieces", this +1 doesn't work. Certainly (must be tested) only work if you have pure damage. Pure fire, pure elec, pure decay. So there is a very limited utility if you are not wizard and co. Because it is impossible to divide 1/0.25 (corrosive damage)... OR, surprise, Obsidian is generous ( : p I don't dream personnally) and as soon as you have a source of THIS damage, you gain +1 in this attack overall. Never mind, I am the only one to understand the problem with that visibly. It is not a problem. We will see the final result. But I have never seen a game with so few passives. Or with so few "true choice". For for example, hold the line is not a choice for me. +10 in x or y is not a true choice. Trues choices : Retribution - Confident aim - Armored grace ETC ETC. A TRUE CONCEPT !^^ Original Sin 2 choices : http://divinityoriginalsin2.wiki.fextralife.com/Talents ^^...

So stay the problem of claw with spiritshifting (druid). Source of my demarche at the origin. Devoted = (Conditionnal) when shifted. If we consider unarmed = claws, there is a bug. Because this don't work. If not, Obsidian must create a new proficiency with claws. During POE1, peasant weapon focus was "unarmed". And unarmed = Fist AND claws. Memories.

No. Once you take one talent, He is locked at the other side.

For active abilities yes. But for passives, few lines have no others "original" choice than a big overlap. Except if you want to pick up hold the line, that is extremely specific. In terms of pure choice for ex-talents new passives abilities : POE1 (you love take this one in example) +30 choices each time I must choose. POE2 Eight in multiclass ! (good try obsidian) 4-5 choices each time I must choose.

I want to clarify what I think : In fact, add new abilities is a thing. But personnally, often, in specific level, I don't know what to take, because there is not really much choice. You speak of POE1. But in POE1, you have complete list, almost directly (there is here and here few talents that unlock at level 6 max) BUT globally you have the full list. SO, THE RISK, of not create totally personalized character is weaker than here. Here, I am in the obligation to take what I would not have taken. I took the least worse. But there is a poor choice. Even with this BB4.