Boeroer

Because of the added Flame Shield?

Monks in PoE fuel their abilities with pain like medieval monastic Flagellants did (where there "ability" was to purge sins with pain). Hence all the ability names with Mortification, Flagellant's Path, Suffering, Agony and so on. There's complete lore behind it, Zahua shines some light on that whole shebang and I think the designers/writers embellished the whole wound mechanic quite nicely. Anyway: Temple of Eothas is not a good performance benchmark for a build. Some which will become really great will struggle there (e.g. some Barbs, Priests etc.) while others do quite well there but never really take off (nost Fighters for example). Novice's Suffering isn't that bad early in the game especially because grazes are not as punishing and crits are not common that early in the game anyway.

Don't know why PoE Monk wouldn't feel like it - but whatever. Monk is one of the strongest martial classes (I'd argue the strongest overall) and if you want a character with most effective unarmed attacks then you should pick the Monk. Everything else is inferior in terms of unarmed dmg - but viable. Cipher with Novice's Suffering can indeed have some D&D Monk vibes due to some powers the Cipher can cast. Soul Whip's damage bonus only applies to the base damage of weapons (and thus picking Biting Whip would be a bad idea for a Cipher with Novice's Suffering since the base damage is so very low). The focus generation of Soul Whip however takes a fraction of the whole damage you roll, including NS's flat dmg bonus, dmg from all additive bonuses + also lashes (not damage over time lashes like Wounding though). Therefore Draining Whip would be a good pick for a Cipher with Novice's Suffering because it doesn't apply any bonus dmg that wouldn't work well with NS anyway - but instead increases the fraction of the dmg roll that gets turned into focus. You should have a weapon set with non-crush damage as backup. Something like a pair of hatchets or spears or so (same weapon focus, different damage types).

Kris Kross were objectively great --> argument destroyed! Yeah people enjoy doing drugs while posting in forum is objectively bad. Lol. Clown is for the emphasize of lol.

Soul Whip does only boost the 5-8 base dmg. The flat bonus is untouched by it. So additive dmg bonuses do work, but only for the tiny fist base damage which makes almost no difference. Novice's Suffering isn't a weapon you can ROFLstomp things with. Because of its special mechanics it's a god pick for builds that want to go into melee and do decent dmg but at the same time don't want to/cannot afford/don't have access to ACC and additive dmg abilities. And who want to spare resources, too. Chanter with NS will still not be a melee monster, but it's viable as a melee addition to his chants and invocations. Once he gets "Their Champion" it should be pretty cool though. With a mix of Mith Fyr and a few short phrases in between he might be able to cast Champion and get to 0 recovery and then fit in for example Hel-Hyraf before Champion wears off. In combination with Vulnerable Attack Hel-Hyraff can be a great way to crack open high DR foes. +10 dmg per attack is great if you have fast attack speed. With 20 DEX and Gauntlets of Swift Action a Chanter with Champion and Two Weapon Style can have 0 recovery with fists even when activating Vulnerable Attack and will punch every 15 frames (with 5 DR bypass which is like a flat +5 dmg bonus against everything with 5 DR or higher). With Hel Hyraf it's a bit like a 10 DR bypass. Imagine punching tough enemies with respectable dmg and 10 DR bypass more than once per second... without having stellar ACC and without having invested in enchantments and melee abilities.

No, it would not gimp the build. A slightly different allocation of attribute points also won't have any noticable impact.

Of course: Carnage is really nice with weapons that proc something on hit or crit. But still: the Barb is a good pick if you want to use Novice's Suffering to begin with. Until lvl 10 (without Accurate Carnage) the accuracy of a Barb is not good compared to other martial classes like Rogue, Fighter, Monk and Ranger - and therefore Novice's Suffering works quite well for him - on top come attack speed buffs like Frenzy and Bloodlust that work very well with NS - as well as the hgith MIG of Greater Frenzy (one of the few cases where I would pick Greater Frenzy). Soul Whip is an additive dmg bonus like Sneak Attack. Therefore Cipher is not an obvious pick for Novice's Suffering. I did a buildwith Novice's Suffering on ciphers and it works, but it's more like a theme-build that tries to emulate a cipher/monk multiclass.

Yes, there are several builds that are good with Novice's Suffering. The weird mechanics of those "special fists" make it so: You will keep the teeny-weeny base damage of your fists (5-8 iirc). But you will gain a huge flat dmg bonus on top. This flat dmg bonus doesn't get influenced by any dmg modifications except Might. Since that flat damage bonus is quite big the impact that might has is substantial. That means that grazes, hits and crits will nearly do the same damage which makes this weapon dish out very consistent damage. Since crits will not do a lot of additional damage and grazes will not do a lot less it's possible to have good dmg output even with rel. bad accuracy. It also means that additive dmg bonuses like Sneak Attack and so on don't so that much because they only get applied to the teeny fists damage, not the flat bonus dmg. Barb is indeed a good pick because: first of all he has access to higher MIG (Frenzy/Greater Frenzy) and also because his starting base ACC and starting Carnage accuracy are both rel. bad. Carnage's ACC does scale with level but it will take you 10 levels (without Accurate Carnage) to reach the Barb's base accuracy which isn't too great to begin with. Another good pick is Priest (who would have guessed?): a Priest can reach very high MIG with Minor Avatar/Champion's Boon + Aggrandizing Radiance (stacks with everything). So besides casting his usual stuff he can also run around and punch enemies really hard. A Chanter can use Mith Fyr to gain a burning lash for his fists. Lashes are multiplicative dmg bonuses and do work with all the damage you roll (including the flat bonus) so that's good, too. They also can raise their (and others') MIG via invocation. Basically all builds that can reach high MIG but don't want to invest into accuracy and damage bonuses too much are good picks. High attack speed is good for Novice's Suffering, too (e.g. Barb's Frenzy, Ranger's Swift Aim and such). I even did a Wizard with Novice's Suffering focused on touch spells like Jolting Touch, Draining Touch and so on and it worked well enough ("I cast 'Fist'!" ) Unfortunately Novice's Suffering stacking with Druids' Spiritshift weapons was patched out (was too good). But Novice's Suffering can be a good backup for Druids when their Spiritshift runs out and they don't want to put effort into upgrading a normal backup weapon. Another bonus of Novice's Suffering is that it costs nothing to scale it up. This frees up resources for you part members' gear. Enchanting is expensive and needs rare resources sometimes. The cons are: no lash enchantment, no durgan steel.

Yes, it is a talent which every class except Ranger can pick (because Rangers get the "original" Wounding Shot ability). Same as Veteran's Recovery, Aspirant's Mark, Apprentice's Sneak Attack, Rhymer's Summons, Enigma's Charm, Outlander's Frenzy, Acolyte's Radiance, Prestidigitator's Missiles and Gallant's Focus.

Duality of Mortal Presence will go up to +10 INT, not only 5. As a Nalpasca it's pretty common to be at max wounds often (if you combine drugs with Enduring Dance and Hylea's Talons for example - self damage doesn't influence Dance of Death).

Chilling Grave does indeed not proc SF/HBD. By the way: Grave Calling's Chilling Grave + the paralyzing effect of Grave Bound can help a lot with generating crit-chains (because Paralyze gives you +25% hit to crit) - another option for a SF/HBD setup - for example if you have a Chanter (or even Beckoner) with Ancient Brittle Bones in the party. A lot of enemies wil be paralyzed after some pulses of the Chilling Grave Chillfog once you killed one or two of the skeletons.

I personally would use a bit less MIG and a tad less INT and put something into DEX (best dps stat imo) and maybe also PER - just to make the early game more enjoyable where you tend to miss a lot and won't have access to Ring of Focused Flame, Enduring Dance etc. yet. But it will also work fine like you posted. My ability picks would be a bit different - but there's always retraining so I would experiment. Thunderous Blows is very good (it also works with spells etc.). Because +2 PEN is - and the added MIG is also not bad.

iirc the Wael Titan can indeed march towards Ukaizo and attack Eothas, but doesn't the wheel get smashed anyway (maybe they fall onto it while struggling, don't remember to be honest)? Still cool option though.

Iirc it only lauches the burn head attack witzh Swift Flurry/HBD. If the frost head is implemented like Chilling Grave etc.: would it still proc Swift Flurry? Afaik spell-like abilites like for example Forbidden Fist will not...?

Yes, that was the irony when I first supposed that class for an Ultimate run.

Yes, afaik Rapid Casting also stacks with Martial Caster - and it def. stacks with Swift Strikes (which not only speeds up casting because of its action speed bonus but also because it gives you +5 DEX). Unlike PoE the returns of stacked action speed buffs are not increasing but "only" linear instead. Still good to have.

Eh, now I read it correctly. Singe weapon bonus, not the +10 fire bonus. Sorry for the confusion.

Very interesting. Does the crit conversion of One Handed Style work with the frost head? Does the frost head have a biggere chance of repeating its attack than the burn head (see enchentments)? Sun and Moon is truly a very weird implementation... I have not a very well educated idea why it procs crit chains that often - but it does for me. I toyed around a lot with different setups and it just procs more ofhten than most other stuff. Same is Stunning Surge by the way: the -10 deflection can't be the only reason - wonce I use Stunning Surge I get crit chains a lot more often than when using other abilities. This could be wrong impression or simply bad/good luck since I didn't write down the results of all the console sessions.

Now with the Strand-of-Favor cheese I'm really musing about letting my intitially ironic idea to complete the Ultimate with a single class Mage Slayer become a reality...

I forgot that you can't pause or even slow down an ultimate run. That makes it obviously a lot harder to time the leaps properly so that you don't deplete the uses.

They are separate attack rolls, one with keyword fire, one with keyword frost - so I guess the implementation is correct? Good point about the Ring though, I forgot about that.

Ah, but the -5 PL applies to all rejuvenation spells that are still active immediately, including the moonwells etc. you cast before (suddenly lower duration, less and less potent ticks etc.). So better to not switch at all (unless you are using a healing that works immediately like Cleansing Wind) and enjoy +2 PL at all times. Or cast the spell and only shift when you need more oomph temporarily (because this also works in the reverse way where active spells will profit from the increased PL immediately while they still run). Ah sorry, I meant Martial Caster, not Quick Summoning, you are right.

Yes, Livegiver can summon Firebrand. Only creature summoning spells are excluded (and afaik only the ones from the druid class - the Dichotomous Soul of Monk would still work). A Lifegiver has +2 PL to all Rejuvenation spells in general which is good. However the nicer bonus is his ability to gain +5 PL while shifted (but suffer -5 PL after the shift ends). If you don't shift at all because you want to use Firebrand 24/ I'd say it's a bit of a shame. On the other hand the Livegiver gets all the great healing spells as auto-picks - which will cost you no abilits points and would free up points for some other stuff. So yes: I would pick Livegiver I think. Thematically a Fury would make perfect sense. Too bad the passive(s) won't do anything for you. I just checked again in the game: no increased PEN with Firebrand. I forgot how long Firebrand lasts in Deadfire. It has a base duration of 60 seconds which scales with Power Level and INT. At level 20 with 20ish INT you will have durations of over 120 secs. Nice. Also checked whether Firebrand scroll would work while shifted: it does not. Afaik there's no way to combine Wildstrike lashes with weapons (other than the natural spiritshift weapons). So you don't need need to pick those wildstrike talents if you won't shift at all. Quick Summoning might be good though. Taste of the Hunt is actually a very good melee "spell". Especially with a Monk as second class because the increased INT of Turning Wheel will make it last a long time (doing lots of raw dmg). Would be even better with a Helwalker because of the higher MIG. Helwalker also seems to be a better combo with Lifegiver because not only is the Helwalker more in need of healing but also because the healing spells will be a lot more potent with his bonus MIG. Nalpasca is still fine of course. More constant and independent wond generation. Just beware getting hit by Arcane Dampener at all costs - it's really nasty against Nalpascas because they'll lose the benefits of the drug and suffer the crash maluses while Arcane Dampener lasts (including no healing!). You can throw in a new drug though if that happens I believe... I personally would pick Turning Wheel instead of Iron Wheel and Lightning Strikes instead of Swift Flurry (except when playing below Path of the Damned. with Ring of Focused Flame and a difficulty below PotD Swift Flurry might be good). As Kaylon said: keep some backup weapons like Morning Star and such. Enemies who are resistant to pierce an slash are common so a crushing Morning Star is a good thing. Also the modal of Morning Stars works really well in combination with Force of Anguish...