Elric Galad

Yup, saber nerf didn't exactly helped the rogue. Small weapons, or maybe axes could be the way to go now. Quickswitch + Firearms is probably a good idea to add some spike damages to a rogue build. And sorry, I forgot to add the link with class relative power thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88395-what-are-the-most-powerful-classes-in-303/

Hmmm 18dex... Guess you are aiming for some atk spd / recovery break point later huh? I don't get it. Dex is independant from recovery speed... and it is always a multiplicative factor.

Borrowed instinct does not stack with devotion for the faithful accuracy part. Oh, yes, tactical meld. But mm, I think I prefer being able to cast it right at the beginning of the fight, and tactical meld is probably too much focus for this. With all that Acc, I suppose I won't miss any dragon anyway. The flying one should be immune to ground, which is not the subtype of the fighter's knockown. And fighter even has disciplined barrage and 5 more acc than cipher for even more Accuracy galore. Plus knockdown is a full attack, so you'll get 2 Prone rolls if you dual wield. I think I found my plan against the alpine ^^ I was slightly worried because my party has no druid nor wizard to petrify him. But a phase 1 Dominating the dragon to kill the adds, followed by a phase 2 knocking the dragon with my high acc fighter will do the trick ^^

Paladin with coordinated attack + marking weapon + Devotion for the faithful + blessing or zealous focus + anti beast chant (or anti-beast armor) + Cipher = great fun with dragons I would probably use Puppetmster in this case, just for the fun of having a full-powered dragon on my side. By the way, do you guys know if several paladin with coordinated attack or several marking weapons stack ?

Pretty similar to mine, except for 2 more might, and 2 less dex. I wanted just a little bit more might for damage spells (you get slightly less focus with might than with dex, but you use it more efficiently). Except mine fought from reach with a quatterstaff (and was not my main, she had a party to tank for her). I'm totally in line with your level 1 powers. Level 1 powers are (comparatively) weak, so their casting speed is a very huge factor. It makes them time-economically spammable, and it is exactly what you want. Whisper of Treason 3.0 is especially good for this reason. Antipathetic field is circonstancial but strong when well placed. It remains useful from time to time at high level. Also consider some Power levels have less interesting spells than the number you can pick (level 6 post-mind plague nerf, I'm looking at you. Level 7 too...). So you might pick eyestrike later.

As DAoM doesn't stack with frenzy speed buff, I don't get why one would want to use both.

Well, given you can cast reaping knives on your barbarian, I guess you can imagine.

I didn't say this, No priest => Druid Does not logically imply : Priest => No druid In case you have already a priest, secondary caster could be either druid or wizz, druid being more defensive. If we were really talking about optimal party, I wouldn't even consider limiting to 2 casters. You'll want a maximum number of casters, plus a couple of slightly tankier damage dealers. For flly optmized endgame party, you'll want something like : 1 paladin or chanter 1 chanter 1 priest 1 druid 2 wizz So not even close from considering bringing a rogue. But we're not speaking about optimal party, we're discussing about a Class bringing enough advantages for its particular role to counterbalance its defect. Rogue is not that bad in this aspects. Just it has not enough superiority in its speciality to balance its unability to do anything else (party support and resistance mostly).

Well if we go to the "pretty well unanimously accepted" route, Rogue is also pretty unanimouslt accepted as the weakest class in endgame. But I agree that wizz are considered as better caster overall. Usually, wizz are seen as #1 or #2 best classes (competing with priest), while druid are #3. But Rogue are usually seen as #11 (I'll add the link later, sorry.) That does not mean wizz are strictly better. And the main advantage of druid over wizz is not really spiritshift but a couple of very powerful party wide buff (moonwell, Form of the Delemgan and possibly nature's bounty). In a group without a priest (which I don't do), I would pick druid instead of wizz. 1 per encounter Form of the Delemgan at high level is just incredibly useful. Fast casting 8DR that stacks with zealous endurance is just that good. So for me druid vs wizz is a matter of taste. They basically play is the same league.

Mostly because of alacrity.Alacrity + Eldricht Aim + Chained Fast casted Shadowflames is quite disgusting. Sure, druid can do this with items, but then you have to consider Fighter as the top CC class due to crazy accuracy and scrolls ^^ Wall of many colors is harder to use than Relentless but it is recursive long duration CC. Probably the most powerful CC spell of the game (not as convenient as Relentless of course). But I'm just saying Wizz is a bit better. Druid also suffer a bit for having most of his best spells at levels 4-5, which limit a bit their use. If only there were metamagic talents...

My current plan: Reach cipher, boreal dwarf Mig 12 Dex 16 Con 10 Per 16 Int 16 Res 8 Weapons of choice : Tall grass & Twin Stings (Tidefall as a backup) I'm quite surprised to be the first to speak about Tall Grass ^^ Some lowish armor Draining Whip Biting Whip Two handed style WF soldier Interrupting blow Superior Deflection Sneak attack Quickswitch (for alpha and beta shots with twin stings)

You don't have to be the absolute master of something to worth something. Druid can do something like 90% of wizard's job while providing some support. I think this is about as good. And no, Cipher's spells are not that great except Amplified Wave and Mindweb, which both empty your power pool. Cipher spells are nice, but I won't name any in my top #5 list. But hey, I love cipher for their versatility. Rogue is probably still #1 single target DPS and that does not save him from being inferior. When you are a one trick pony, you need to do your trick more than 10% better than anyone. Some people here also think rogue single target DPS is okay, but they should have other tricks (like striking from invisibility, better riposte, deceptions...) or at least better DPS burst. Relentless Storm is also the best CC spell in a number of situations, for example when ennemies are not packed. Given that wizz have awesome CC, he simply does not have a tool like this in his weaponry. It's like saying pal are inferior because they are a compromise between fighter and priest... In my parties, I have no room for absolute specialist which takes an entire slot for doing their stuff just a bit better. I'd rather take another character who can do this about as well and provide other major benefits. And druid party survivability buffs are noticeable enough to worth trading against wizz. But of course, everyone has his own playstyle. And you have to remember that for me the greatest competitors for rogues are rangers (druid single target DPS is great, especially early on, but too unreliable for me)

Druid are not part time caster and part time melee damages. They are full time casters that has a melee damages hobby for their off-time. Their casting is not significantly inferior to other casters. Wizz are a bit more specialized than druid toward CC and AoE damages, but they don't have the awesome support capabilities of the druid. Priests are unparalelled support class anyway, bur their CC is poor. Cipher can't just chain class spells like druid do. They just don't play in the same league for this reason. Cipher spells are very good, but I see no Cipher CC spell on par with Relentless storm. Druid is basically a "jack-of-all trades, master of most".

"To optimal and beyond !"

Sacred Trasher. Coordinated Mindwave. Heart of Relentless Storm. Sneak Charge. Deathballs. The possibilities are infinite.

Just got it. I forgot it scaled with level. But NPC don't get bonus scaling (to replace dispositions) as Paladin NPC get scaling bonus defenses...

Advice #1 : include a druid in your party. Casting Form of the Delegan each fight will ultimately remove the need of an armor (durganized unique robe/padded/naked martyr pants are ok) Advice #2 : use reach weapon. Advice #3 : flanking and using fast CC (whisper of treason) is usually enough to avoid getting slaughtered.

You should retry your maths with Sacred Immolation. Sacred immolation works with combusting wounds.

I didn't even know it scaled with level... Basically an endgame priest NPC has the same holy radiance as a 5 points favorable disposition, isn't it ?

Shadowflames + Shadowflames + Shadowflames is usually a great combo. What I mean is that wizards are very strong and usually don't require combos to be played effectively. They are slighly hard to use at low level, even if a well-placed chillfog is devastating. Simple combos like Eldricht aim + offensive spells work well, and Reflex debuffs + AoE damages are great too.

Yes it does work. Elemental talent does not work on status-like DoT like Dragon Trashed. But they do work on DoT that periodically triggers on an area like Sacred Immolation.

No The same for Paladins NPC (who do get a defense buff based on level instead).

Is it even possible to be lvl 1 when reaching bear cave without cheating ?

Optimal Sacred Immolation only requires 1 talent to work anyway, so investing other talent for FoD won't hinder it. However, I agree that they are overrated. People just want to turn paladin into a damage class that they are not really. It works okayishly so why not. Alpha snipping is quite satisfying Intense flames feels ok to me because it doesn't require to choose a specific order and works with Scion of Flames. Rakhan field is slighly less rewarding unless you go the Bittercut route for these reasons.

I yet again agree with you that rogue needs some minor tweaks. Many times I was considering taking a rogue in party, and every time he was denied a spot, simply because there was some other class that could do the same job plus be more versatile. On PotD, as a rule of mine I use: every of the glassier companions should have at least some emergency hard crowd-control ability to stop his other mate from being swarmed. Ciphers, Wizard, Priests, even Druids have it. And they all can dish out considerable amount of damage. Hard CC is the thing that rogue lack for me. This leads to: - make Sap available earlier (for example starting from lvl 5 or 7) because that stun is needed. - buff Smoke Cloud. Add a stronger cc to it. E.g. instead of Distraction, let it inflict a random of [Distraction, Blind, Confusion] rolled for each affected enemy separately. - using Coordinated Positioning could provide a short duration buff to rogue's reflex and deflection (let's say +10 for 8s or +15 for 5s) Plus I strongly agree on the suggested: [...] While I specifically disagree on: Good suggestions here. I would argue about Rogue Health that Health is not meant to increase survivability in battles (12hp/lvl and 15 base Def should stay as there are) but through several battles. This won't really help rogue's tanking. It is more for day to day convenience for rogue player than a true combat buff for me. But you might disagree of course And Endurance×5 on chanter would certainly be suitable !