Kaylon

I thought it was possible to zoom it if you save the image but it doesn't work... I will do also rogue dual Bittercut vs Dawn in Spring. Rogue with the same bonuses as above, but tis time 2xDrawn in Spring(top) vs 2x Bittercut (bottom). Blue means Drawn in Spring will outdps Bittercut. dvsb.pdf

RP aside, once you have durganized weapons the +0.3 crit dmg is always the best choice. Also the paladin is not that bad either because Sworn Enemy/FoD allow him to land quite a few criticals during each fight. Ah, I forgot about Sworn Enemy, as I hadn't gotten it yet in my recent (now lost) playthrough. How does FoD compare in terms of Tidefall v. dual Bittercuts? FoD is better with 2xBittercuts because of the higher base damage, but if you want the higher dps overall then Tidefall is better.

I made a chart showing rogue and ranger+wolf dps (as describied in my previous posts) with their base accuracy vs various combination of DR/deflection. On top is the rogue dps - green means he outdps the ranger. On the bottom is the ranger+pet dps - blue means he outdps the rogue. Increased accuracy (either because of enemies deflection debuffs from afflictions or various buffs) will shift the tables to the right helping more the ranger because of his higher base damage. RogueVSRanger.pdf

RP aside, once you have durganized weapons the +0.3 crit dmg is always the best choice. Also the paladin is not that bad either because Sworn Enemy/FoD allow him to land quite a few criticals during each fight.

In ch.2, besides Drawn in Spring, Bittercut and Rimecutter you have Danulya, Shatterstar and Resolution worth mentioning. I wouldn't include Cladhaliath on ch.2 because that means losing the critical dmg bonus from the Doemenels... In ch.3, besides what was already mentioned, you have also Strike Hard which is at least as good as Rimecutter and the Last Blade of the White Forge which is slightly worse but looks better .

No need to test Pilferer's Grip - its effect is shown as suppressed if you wear a durgan enchanted armor.

Of course Driving Flight wasn't included in my calculations. I also considered a party situation where the rogue/pet are assisting a companion which is something normal if you want them to stay alive as long as possible. My post wasn't made to support Boeroer or somebody else, I just tried to show the potential of each class. (In fact most of the things I pointed were in the favor of the rogue).If you think the rogue has higher accuracy please post your numbers, maybe I missed something.

Kaylon you initial base damage for tidefall is less then 1 arrow from persistence? And there is no allowance for crits, sneaks, deaths? The reason the bow damage is greater is because the ranger fires 2 arrows at the same time (it's 2*12.5). Sneak attacks and death blows were counted, hit to crit was counted too. Pure criticals (not hits converted), grazes and misses are difficult to count because they depend on the enemies defenses. But if we decide on enemy's defense we can of course have an even better estimation. More criticals favor the ranger (because of his higher base damage), while less criticals favor the rogue...

Without the legendary enchantment and the wounding (also depending on might) you cut easily 30-40% of the Persistence damage...

A few points that weren't mentioned: - the rogue can stack Galant's Focus with Reckless Attack for a total of +12acc - the rogue has also Deep Wounds which adds (1+might bonus) dmg/s - if we consider the pet dmg, Stunning Shots and Stalker's Link bonuses we also have to consider the time used by the pet to move from target to target, just like for the rogue - in theory, under Defensive Mindweb, the rogue can also add more damage via Riposte - the rogue can also stun (Sap) or further lower the defenses (with Persistent Distraction or by applying other afflictions) - the rogue can do 2 types of damage All that being said here are my results: I considered a wood elf ranger with 30mig/20per using a durganized legendary Persistence (with lash) and his pet VS a hearth orlan rogue with 30mig/20per and a durganized legendary Tidefall (with lash). Both are using the Gauntlets of Swiftness and potions of alacrity for nearly 0% recovery. On top of the 60% dmg bonus from might and the 55% from legendary they have: - ranger - 20% dmg from Stalker's Link, 15% dmg from Apprentice Sneak Attack, 40% dmg from flanking (resting+boots), 12% dmg from hit to crit conversion - rogue - 20% dmg from Reckless Attack, 15% dmg from Two Handed Style, 50% dmg from Sneak Attack, 100% dmg from Death Blows, 30% dmg from flanking (resting+boots), 30% dmg from hit to crit conversion They both have 120% crit damage (durgan+merciless hand+dungeon delver). The ranger has 20% hit to crit (and since 50% of the attacks are hits he will have 10% more crits overall, ie 0.1*120%=12% more dmg), the rogue has 50% hit to crit (and since 50% of the attacks are hits we will have 25% more crits overall, ie 0.25*120%=30% more dmg) . The rogue deals 1.6 raw dmg/s with Deep Wounds. The ranger has 116 accuracy with Stalker's Link, while the rogue has 118 with Reckless Assault and Galant's Focus. Both of them attack every 1s. The wolf pet deals 16-23 base damage,has 8DR penetration (base+Vicious Companion) and a total of 212% dmg bonuses (72% level bonuses, 15% Vicious Companion, 30% Merciless Companion, 50% Predator's Sense, 15%might, 30% flanking). His accuracy at lv16 is 105. He attacks roughly every 3s. The rogue will do on average every 1s: 17*(1+.6+.55+.2+.15+.5+1+.3+.3)=78.2 slash/thrust dmg (weapon), 19.5 elemental dmg (lash), 31.3 raw dmg (wounding), 1.6 raw dmg (deep wounds) for a total of (130.6dmg - 1.25*DR) The ranger will do on average every 1s: 25*(1+.6+.55+.2+.15+.4+.12)=75.5 thrust dmg (weapon), 18.9 elemental dmg (lash), 30,2 raw dmg (wounding) for a total of (124.6 - 2.5*DR) The pet will do every 3s: 19.5*(1+2.12)=60.8 thrust dmg (fangs) if the target has less than 9DR and a total of (68.8-DR) if the target has at least 9DR that also means the pet will do on average every 1s: (20.3 dmg) if the target has less than 9DR and (22,9 - .33DR) if the target has at least 9DR Both the ranger and the pet will do on average every 1s: (144.9 - 2.5*DR) dmg if the target has less than 9DR and (147.5 - 2.88*DR) if the target has at least 9DR Conclusions: - without the pet the ranger is always outdamaged by the rogue (higher dps, faces less DR, dual dmg type) - ranger+pet outdamage the rogue if the DR<9; if DR>=9 the rogue gains again the upper hand because he faces less DR and has 2 types of damage If the ranger has an accuracy advantage then he can gain the upper hand at higher DR too... And if the rogue uses 2 weapons he will be outdamaged even more easily.

The accuracy is basically the same for both. The ranger has Distant Advantage + Marksman which will compensate the loss from Twinned Arrows; then it's Stalker's Link vs Reckless Assault.

A few comments about ranger vs rogue damage potential. If we don't consider the pet, then a ranger with Twinned Arrows and a rogue with death blows do similar ranged damage (by the way Persistence gives always the best ranged dps and if durganized, in combination with the Gauntlets of Swiftness and a potion of alacrity you have nearly 0% recovery). While the ranger shots twice he also faces twice the DR and in the end the damage is similar with what the rogue does with deatblows. Now, for melee, the highest dps is done by a Tidefall rogue (durganized, Gauntlets of Swiftness, potion of alacrity) with death blows. The rogue attacks as fast as the ranger but has 36% higher base damage and much higher damage bonuses/accuracy (than his ranged version) - all these make his dps far superior to what a ranger can do. Of course he has to move to do the damage (unlike the ranger) and that's why the melee damage should always be superior to the ranged damage... The pet has very high damage potential if you pick his offensive talents but his attacks are slow, he has low accuracy and defenses which means his damage isn't very reliable (he misses often, can be disabled/killed easily). In a perfect world however I'm expecting Persistence ranger + pet = Tidefall rogue with death blows.

The cipher is much more effective from range (the fact that his class soulbound weapon is a bow means something...) and I think your party will have some problems because it's too squishy (and you have no buffs, nor heals).

I don't deny the numbers, I deny the conclusions Also why pick the wolf pet for testing when you don't even know his base damage? The average base damage of the most damaging attacks/spells varies somewhere between 40-60 and 27% of that is roughly 10-15. Like I said, 10-20 samples are meaningless if you want to draw a conclusion (no offense!). To show how misleading a small sample is let's take the ogre - he does 40-60 dmg with 21might - that means 30-40 base dmg. A crit should do 55-80dmg ie 67 average dmg. If the dmg reduction is multiplicative then the critical damage after reduction should be 40-58 dmg ie 49 on average. If the damage reduction is not multiplicative then the dmg range is 47-69 dmg ie 58 on average.

The belt works vs everything and yes, even in the tavern, vs your companions. The test is very simple - if the reduction is multiplicative then you can say exactly what is the max damage you can take. If you can take more damage than that then it's a straight reduction. Very simple to check and no need to do averages which are meaningless unless you have a very large sample. Once you know how the reduction works then it's very simple to make an estimation of the damage reduced because it's 27% of the base weapon damage. VS enemies using normal weapons (2h weapons) the average reduction is less than 5dmg and can go to 10-15 in the case of the dragons or the most damaging spells. In the end there are a few things to keep in mind: - how often I'm hit by a critical - does it make sense to equip a belt just for crits or there are better options (like reducing all dmg by 5 or having a bigger endurance/health pool) ? - it's good to take so many crits to make the belt worthwhile? it's efficient to heal such build? how reliable it is (what happens if you take 2 crits in a row)? Of course, the game is easy enough even on potd and you don't have to optimize everything to feel like a boss.

The Blunting Belt is good for melee characters only, who already have high armor and get hit often by slash/pierce attacks. The +3CON belt is good for everyone and it helps against all types of damage... The Girdle of Mortal Protection reduction bonus isn't multiplicative, is cumulative like all bonuses/penalties in this game - instead of 150% damage you will take 123%. 27% of the base damage is insignificant most of the time and it works only on crits - in other words don't bother with this belt (sorry Boeroer )

You can also use ManageParty before the cinematic scene, that way you can keep them alive. Or you can recreate them again at the next inn... (it makes no difference because they have no interactions).

Well, her face has nothing special, it can be easily reproduced at the character creation. Or maybe you want to make your character face look like the portrait?

Yes, you go to the companion portraits in your game directory (Pillars of Eternity\PillarsOfEternity_Data\data\art\gui\portraits) and copy her portraits into the player/female folder.

The chanter... He can unlock Stormcaller, has ranged attack speed chant and can use other support chants from the back at the same time.

I have Bittercut and Resolution. I might go get Purgatory, but I want to finish getting Durgan steel first. But can't a dual wielder with 2 top-end weapons do the same - or at least in a similar time frame usually? The best is to try it and judge by yourself...

Redeemer is a very strong vs vessels even without leveling. There are many resistant vessels (animats, eyeless, undead, ...) which can be killed in 2-3hits with it.

Well, Massuk Hunting Bow has better range/dmg than wands/scepters and will outperform many bows because of the dual damage. Until you get the Engwithan Sceper, the Stormcaller or Persistence it's a very good option.

Many paladin's abilities are redundant if you start thinking like that, but Righteous Soul protects against many afflictions, some of them not covered by priest's defenses...

That's way too many talent points to deal with this problem though. I already have Aegis of Loyalty, will get Sacred Immolation, and then Righteous Soul on top of that? I want him to do some DPS, too! I don't know what abilities your paladin has, but Righteous Soul is one of the best he has...