Jediphile

The Rakatan wouldn't know anything about the Sith empire. Remember just how long ago the "builders" were said to have created their empire. IIRC Bastila estimated it at more than 10.000 years, which is long, long before the foundation of the Republic, and the Sith empire is much younger than that, since it was founded by dark jedi expelled from the jedi order. By that time the Rakatan had long since lost their connection to the force and regressed. As for Revan, he didn't need to "feel" anything - he knew all along that the true Sith were out there. Kreia tells us that he sacrificed himself and the jedi who followed him in order to face the greater threat that he knew that the true Sith represented. It's also why he left strategically important installations intact and build the HK-50 droids to infiltrate the Republic at all levels - he needed an army to be ready when the time came. Not so much "a place on Malachor" as the entire war effort there. He staged the whole thing to either convert the jedi to follow him and embrace the dark side or else to die during the war. The corrupting effects of Malachor was one factor that contributed to this. It's true that the Star Forge has corrupting effects, but don't forget that Revan didn't find it until years later, and he needed his army before then. If we're talking a straight fight, then sure. But why would Revan do that? It's far more likely that he would try to recruit true Sith followers to his cause and then challenge the true Sith leaders for the mantle of the Dark Lord, thereby creating a civil war among the true Sith. At least, that's what I think we'll see he did during the years he was gone. Doesn't mean I'm right, though.

That's fine, but probably not in a game titled "Knights of the old Republic" :D

Jeepers - is this thread still alive? I thought we killed it ages ago. Not that I really mind... Nihilus would leave no survivors, and Kreia did not want to kill the galaxy, she just wanted the force dead. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nihilus is a void. Note some of the things Kreia tells you about him, if you can get her to talk on the subject: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." "Yes. And he fed upon its destruction - it will sustain him, for a time.Because it is not something that can ever truly be controlled... and it leaves nothing to conquer in its wake.And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts." "Power? Do you think so?You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls." Basically Nihilus is a thougtless hunger without intelligence. And besides, there is no separating the Exile from Nihilus or vice versa, if you accept my theory above

"These aren't the droids you're looking for. You can go about your business... Move along!" [Lockdown due to spam in 5, 4, 3...] Oops - time to go... :ph34r:

Actually, I rather like the masters, even if their treatment of the Exile is totally unfair. Vrook is doubtlessly the most annoying - totally stubborn and obstinate and completely incapable of keeping an open mind in any way. I like him for being a grumpy old git, whom I can love to hate Kavar is okay. He's very direct and a good strategist, which are good qualities. Unfortunately his directness works rather a lot against the Exile, as he jumps to conclusions at the end of it all. A shame, really... I also like Zez-Kai Ell. He is the only one to say that maybe the masters were wrong. When you meet him on Nar Shaddaa, he laments the fact that they sent you into exile rather than to try and find out what happened to you. Now that was exactly the right way to put it - I was jumping my chair that I could tell the masters this during sequence, where I was exiled. Too bad that Zez-Kai Ell forgot all about this when he went back to Dantooine Vash showed compassion on your part and even stood up to Atris, when she just wanted to punish you during the trial. Too bad she was killed off by the unfinished plot. Then again, it might be better than having her killed off by Kreia... And Atris? The less said the better... " :D

Oh, didn't know that - thanks. That's much better. Btw, what format is TGA?

I think she was just refering to the whole Darth Traya thing, as Kreia wore that title again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. Title, not name. At least that's how it appeared to me - Darth Traya is a title. Kreia is a name, only it is not her real name...

Yup, seriously - worked like a charm for me. Then again, I was a sentinel/weaponmaster when I did it. Still managed to do it as a sentinel/sith lord, though. Totally off-topic: Is it just me or are the mods in lockdown-overdrive mode?

Don't fight them all at once. Run a few circles with Master Speed, so that you distance yourself. They won't be able to detect you, since you'll be out of range. Then activate your defensive/buff powers and approach carefull until *one* of them comes after you - then take it down. That way you can pick them off one by one instead of fighting all three at the same time. Besides, you'll want to explore those ledges, since there is treasure on the bodies there. And once the lightsabers are gone, you can take down Kreia as you please - she won't even resist.

Actually, wasn't that supposed to refer to Luke's sister who was *not* Leia? I seem to recall the original intent being that Luke had a sister somewhere, but that it wasn't Leia, and that finding her would be a part of the planned third trilogy (episodes VII, VIII, and IX), only Lucas lost interest in Star Wars while doing ROTJ and decided to turn Leia into Luke's sister instead, just so that he could close the saga right there without leaving the "No, there is another" comment hanging. Or do I remember it wrong? True. In fact, this is rather common, particularly in an ongoing series or saga. It's called foreshadowing. And given that KotOR2 was written with a sequel fully intended all along, it makes sense to leave some plot unresolved. The Revan vs. true Sith revelation is a major plot, which is only revealed and never explored. Kreia/Kae is one touched upon, but left open for further development. The Exile/Nihilus connection is another. And K3 was intended during the production of K2. So even if K3 is never made, I think your point would be just as valid.

IIRC the droid planet won't be fixed. KotOR2 was cut short so early that next to none of it were ever written, so there's practically none of the droid planet in existence for Team Gizka to restore. Yes, it's a damn shame... Still, I say that just from memory, which doesn't always serve as it should. If anyone from Team Gizka reads this, please drop a line to confirm or deny this.

3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Straight from dialog.tlk, Disciple says: "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled." You guys take stuff too seriously.And I thought someone said Arren was in the Mandalorian War.I thought Kreia said she didn't go to war....must just be me I guess. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When Kreia interrupts the meeting between the jedi masters and the LS exile: Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..." Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes."

Well, the fact is that we're indeed not told either way, so I don't see what your point is with that statement. You seem to think that Kreia is not Kae, fine, but you defeat that point yourself with this comment, since the game doesn't tell us that either. But you're right that we cannot determine that Kreia is Kae. We cannot determine that she wasn't either, though. And the fact that the game ends without revealing this to us doesn't prove anything either way.

Ooh, I sense the dark side beckoning... Choosing yourself as opposed to choosing others seems to be the first step

Hit PrintScreen (key to the right of F12) when you want to keep a picture of the screen. I do believe you can only have one in memory, though. When you leave the game (remember to save first) next, open a program that allows you to deal with pictures. Paint works fine. Then "insert" (or simply Ctrl+V) and the picture should turn up. Then save it. Of course, if you have a better program than Paint, such as PaintShop Pro, PhotoShop, or even Photo Editor (which is usually on all machines these days), you might want to use that instead.

Darth Traya: "Welcome to Trayus Core, Exile" Exile: "Thanks. Nice place you have here... lots of space..."

Handmaiden: "My father was Yusanis, an Echani general. He went to join my mother, one whose movements and spirit matched his. I never saw her face, and she did not return from the final battle of the war. She died in the battle that shattered Malachor V, and her body was never recovered." Kreia: "Well, actually..."

What can I say - the dark side makes people do horrible things even to their own relatives. Ulic killed his brother. Anakin killed his wife and maimed and nearly killed his own son... Besides, we could also argue that Kreia's apparent lack of interest and disregard for the Handmaiden is really just a facade, and that she doesn't want her to come along because she doesn't want her daughter to be corrupted as she was. Or we could argue that she won't allow anyone to see her concern for Handmaiden, since that would be a weakness, and she cannot allow that as a Sith lord.

Well, Luke didn't sense that Vader was his father or that Leia was his sister (until the fact that he had one was revealed to him), and nor did Leia, so I don't find that to be a very compelling argument. Especially not when Handmaiden is never confronted with the possibility of Kreia being Kae... The Handmaiden is beautiful, but note how Atton mentions that Kreia must also have been beautiful once. That could be a clue. Especially when we know how the DS corrupts the look of people in K2.

Sorry, but you remember incorrectly. The actual line from Disciple is this: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had." Note that the master Disciple fails to remember is Revan's master *after* Kae. Therefore it cannot be the first and final master, that Revan returned to in the end, and who we know is Kreia.

I disagree. Jolee was indeed "gray" since he chose to leave the rigid rules of the jedi. Once reason why I would like to see Jolee return in K3 (assuming Revan was LS, of course) is because the jedi order really needs his insights - he stayed away from the order and yet resisted the dark side, while the masters were indecisive and avoided making choices when they were desperately needed. The masters really could learn a lot from Jolee. The masters' greatest mistake was to see everything in pure black and white, LS vs. DS. By doing so, they sacrificed countless lives in the outer rim and forced Revan and Malak to defy their will. They were correct that facing the Mandalorians in war would corrupt the jedi, but they were wrong in claiming that this was all the fault of Revan and Malak. It would be all but impossible for an ethical jedi to stand by and watch innocent people die without doing anything because their masters told them not to. And by being so inflexible in their position, the masters certainly did their part in splitting the order and bringing about the Jedi Civil War. They also distanced themselves from the common people, whom they were rather too willing to sacrifice for "the greater good of the Force"...

Kreia did know her - she said so to the Exile herself. Kreia has a, ahem, talent for "misinformation", though, and I could easily believe that she would mere say that she knew Kae if she is indeed Kae herself. Note also how she refers to the third Sith Lord, who cannot be revealed too soon. That third Sith lord is clearly Kreia herself, so she obviously talks about herself in the third person. She could very easily do the same on the subject of Arren Kae, methinks. However, there are a few clues to suggest that she is indeed Arren Kae. 1. None of the masters ever mention Kreia by name. Indeed, Atris tells us that "Kreia" is not her real name. 2. When confronting the masters, Kavar mentions (without saying her name) that he thought she had died in the Mandalorian Wars. Arren Kae supposedly died on Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars. 3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae. There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

Yes, but I don't think he should put your comrades in statis - he should be so tough that he just wouldn't have to, while you really would require the aid of your comrades to take him on. Another thing is that he should have sucked life and force from your companions. Sure, the Exile and Visas can activate Force Immunity (if they're wise enough to have taken it), but Mandalore can't and so is reduced to being a power-source for Nihilus. That would really have sucked in a good way (pun fully intended) Ah, but there are those of us who think there are very specific reasons why you didn't see that in K2... "

There is also the matter of who Kreia really is. I won't get into all the speculation, except to state to fact from the game. 1. The masters mention at the meeting on Dantooine toward the end of the game, that they thought she had died during the Mandalorian Wars. Not sure, but I think it's Kavar who says it, not that it really matters... 2. When you confront Atris after meeting with the masters, she mentions that Kreia is not her real name.

Actually, I'd tend to think of something like that as being closer to DS than LS. Maiming your opponent is a pretty harsh thing to do, so it would fit better with DS, especially since it would be more difificult to do than and standard attack, and so it would be something that you would actively attempt to accomplish. Don't think we need new feats for it, though - just let the Critical Strike progressions make it possible. That might even get me to choose it over Flurry for once... I don't think jedi should get DS points for using it per se, though. There is already precedent for having cybernetic prosthetics in the KotOR age. Ulic Qel-Droma's brother, Cay, had his arm cut off during the Beast Wars on Onderon (Tales of the Jedi #2) and had it replaced with a prosthetic. Wasn't like Luke's, however, but was more like a robotic arm, suggesting that the technology was indeed more primitive. Actually his "prosthtic" arm is from an old XT-6 droid, which he salvaged. He then has that one cut off too and must replace it with yet another droid arm... "