Jediphile

My problem with that theory is that it doesn't explain the relationship that clearly seems to exist between the Exile and Nihilus. It also runs contrary with Kreia's comments about Nihilus 'already being dead'. The masters tell us that the threat they face - which is Nihilus - is tied the exile and that they have from the exile what they felt when Nihilus destroyed the jedi on Katarr. They also say that 'these jedi', which I take to mean Nihilus, since they haven't truly identified him yet, have learned what they can do from the exile. Again, it all flows right back to the exile personally and not just what happened on Malachor V. This I doubt for several reasons: 1. There would be a lot more Nihili? (plural of Nihilus) 2. It doesn't explain the close relationship and similar powers of the Exile and Nihilus. 3. The masters would not have drawn the conclusion that the Nihilus learned his power from the Exile. 4. Nihilus being "merely" a perverted jedi does not fit with Kreia's comments that he is no longaer and is already dead. Actually I like the plot. The problem lies in the storytelling, I think. Since the production was rushed, they just didn't get around to telling the final bits well, and those were the ones that carried the story. They do not succeed in justifying the masters decision to cut the exile off the force because they don't explain it well - you just get all this information thrown in your face in two seconds and have to deal with it, and you go WTF?? The revelation of the Exile's power/curse should have been much more gradual, so that you really saw the horror of it when the secret finally came out. Instead it's just, "Hey, you're a wound in the force leeching life from others, don't you know, so we'll just cut you off now, if it's all the same to you..." The plot and how it was told was hurt by the rushed ending, because it means the game takes a huge turn to the left toward the end, and you end up follow the plot simply because you have no other choice as you fight to grasp just what is going on.

You mean Kreia was the Exile's master before the Mandalorian Wars? This I doubt. You could speculate on it, I guess, but I think there is at least one good point against that being the case - when you meet with the masters on Dantooine and Kreia enters, they are shocked to see her and astounded that she could be the Exile's new master. That doesn't suggest to me that she ever had any relationship with the Exile before, since the masters clearly know both her and the Exile fairly well.

Oh, I'd give them the slack, but the fact remains that they used Revan as a tool when it suited their purposes. If it turns out that Revan was planning this actions toward the greater threat of opposing the true Sith, then the masters are scarcely in a position to point fingers. Besides, using and manipulating people is not a trait of the light side... But I could accept it if the masters acknowledged their responsibility after the fact and admitted that their actions were dictated by necessity and that making the moral choice was too risky. The point there is that they don't try to sweep the choice under the carpet as if it was okay just on the basis of being necssary - it might have been, but you don't run away from the responsibility afterwards, not if you're a jedi master and try to set a higher moral standard for others to follow. And take a look at Vrook in K2 - does he strike you with his comments about Revan, even if I set Revan to LS, as someone who is humbled because he took part in a dirty little jedi secret and used Revan against his will? Not my impression...

Atris will never follow you, but if you can persuade her she may agree to charge you finding the jedi and say that you are welcome back in her base. It really doesn't matter, though, since you never have the option to do so. You will come back, but that is dictated by the linear plot, not by any player choice. I think the rest was already answered.

Yes, but that's only part of it. The real problem is that the Exile doesn't even realise his own potential and doesn't use his powers anywhere near to the extent he could. If he realised his potential and used it, he could destroy the force itself. And yet that danger is still only part of the problem. As the masters say, the Sith's power - Nihilus' power - is tied to the exile directly, and if the wound that the Exile represents is closed, then the abuse of his power would also be closed, including the power that Nihilus holds. Taking that into account, the masters choice is understandable, if extreme - they can end several great threats by simply cutting the Exile off of the force. I don't see it quite that way, though. To me Nihilus didn't merely learn the power by being in the proximity of the Exile on Malachor V - if that had been the case, then you would have had several - erm... Nihilii?? (well, plural for Nihilus) and you don't - you just have one. Why? Well, it's all tied to force bonds, and note what Zez-Kai Ell has to say about that on Nar Shaddaa Zez-Kai Ell: "such bonds are a connection that can be formed at moments of crisis - or in the slow understanding that grows between master and apprentice.It is most common between two beings who are sensitive to the Force. It allows the transmission of feelings, of influence. {Musing}It was something you were gifted with, as I recall, before your fall. You formed such attachments easier than most - even to those who could feel the Force only faintly. {Rueful}Even Vrook could not ignore it, which is saying something. {Frowns}That is most unusual - and unnatural. I have never heard of a bond of such strength. There were a few within the Order who knew more than I did of such bonds - but their students were few, lost in the Mandalorian Wars. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war. I do not know - a bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It not a choice... it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force.To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die - but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound.{Becomes quieter at the end}One of you would have to die, but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound." I find this bit really telling. Even with the Exile's unique abilities for force bonding, it would still take something rather major to produce the results of Malachor V. What is interesting to me is the bit he says about the bond between master and apprentice. We don't know who the Exile's master was - we're never told - but if he was on Malachor V and died there, then you had yet another factor - you have the Exile's powerful force bonds, you have the unique corruptive nature of Malachor, you have the deep bond between master and apprentice, and you have a crisis. And note how Zez-Kai Ell describes the consequences of breaking a force bond - it would leave a wound... Well, that's exactly what we have here, and it may also explain why Kreia *wants* the Exile to kill her in the end - she *knows* it will leave a wound, and maybe by killing her, the Exile granted her final victory by wounding the force even further... But I still find the master/apprentice relationship interesting in relation to what its significance might be, if the Exile's master was at Malachor V. Lots of jedi died there, but if the Exile's master was killed - the one person the Exile would have a uniquely powerful force bond with - then the consequences could be far worse, and that might be the source of the force wound the Exile has created. His master is dead, he is falling to the dark side, he cannot bear the pain and suffering being imposed upon him by the bonds... So what does he do? He tears the bonds apart, he denies the force, he casts out a part of himself, as he would cut off an arm infected with gangrene, before it can infect him... And where does the "rot" go? It travels along the severed bond to his dead master, turning him into an undead being - the master remains dead, but his body is animated by the part of himself that the Exile has denied and becomes a host to that dark part. He becomes an undead thing, a "force vampire" that has no true life and so must drain it from other force sensitives. As Kreia says, he cannot truly be called a man anymore... Kreia: "Power? Do you think so? You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls."

The Star Wars universe does tend to have the force and the LS/DS struggle at its heart in most plots, but it doesn't need to. All good plots needs villains, and we have plenty of non-force-sensitives to choose from, such as: The Hutts The Exchange/GOTO - or Black Sun Czerka Genoharadan Empire or Remnant (movies era) For example, Czerka and the Exchange are still active in KotOR, but we hear nothing about them later on. So a game where they are major bad guys could be made, in which the player eventually brings either or both organizations down.

The Exile cut himself off from the force, yes, but that's not all he did - he also wounded the force itself in the process. It's a unique ability to deny the force and thereby wound it, and that ability is something the jedi masters fear. He did not do it out of desperation, though. As the masters explain, the Exile forms force bonds easily with others, but just as this means he makes attachments easily, it also means that he suffers when those he has formed these bonds with suffer, and this is especially true for those strong in the force, like the jedi. On Malachor V, a great many jedi that the Exile had fought with and thus formed such bonds with suffered and died horribly, or were corrupted according to Revan's plan. Feeling their pain and anguish through the force was too much for the Exile, and that is why he instinctively cut himself off from the force - doing otherwise would have driven him mad or even killed him. That he thereby rejected his own corruption may even be considered incidental in this context. And yes, like the others on Malachor V the Exile was to fall the dark side, I think. The only reason why he didn't was because he, as the masters put it, was deafened to the force by the suffering he experienced there through his force bonds. His bonds are both a gift and a curse - he may gain power from them, but they also transmit pain to him, and he cannot escape that... except by cutting himself off from the force. That's the reason for some of Kreia's comments in the end. If you're LS, she says that you're not a jedi, not really. If you're DS, she says that you're not really a sith... That is true because the Exile has cut himself off from the usual LS/DS bias. He can access the powers through his force bonds, but he really isn't that affected by either side. Personally I tend to see this as a repression of reality, since the Exile wouldn't accept the truth, and his denial, I believe, has caused a sort of "force neurosis". Note a few of the comments the masters make, when the pass their sentense on Dantooine: "When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it." And a bit later... "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you." What I find interesting in this is that the masters are convinced that Sith threat they faced is somehow tied to the Exile himself, because they felt the same thing when Katarr "died" as they did from him the day they exiled him. Now note something says about Nihilus' powers: Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." Given what the masters tell us, does not that suggest a striking similary between the powers of the Exile and Nihilus? It's all about connections to life and powers of instinct, and since we know that Nihilus "destroyed" Katarr, it is obvious that the masters see a connection between the Exile and Nihilus. But even if all the clues are there, it is interesting that nobody ever draws the conclusion or at least says it out loud in the game. Since we know that Nihilus was created by the destructive forces of Malachor, we could argue that he is what remains from a jedi who was there at the time, but I don't think so. After all, Nihilus was not there alone, and neither Kreia (Darth Traya) or Sion has his power to "drain" the force, even though they all studied together at the Trayus Academy. But the Exile has that power! So I think the connection is closer than merely being on Malachor at the time, and that is why I think that Nihilus *is* the Exile and vice versa - Nihilus is the "force neurosis" that the Exile created on Malachor V.

... with a blaster <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, actually no. Or at least, I haven't seen any dialogue or information to suggest that. The only thing HK-47 says about is: "Recollection: The last thing I remember is having my core wiped from the last five years. I believe my master was responsible." That doesn't suggest to me that Revan used a blaster for it. It's not an impossible idea, but there is nothing to support it.

It did, in a sense. Remember what HK-47 says about Revan using Malachor V as a conversion tool that turned the jedi to evil and made them loyal only to Revan's cause. HK-47: "Observation: Master, that was the lesson of Malachor. Any Jedi involved in the systematic slaughter on such a scale cannot help but doubt and question themselves.Observation: Master, I do not believe that the Mandalorians were the true target at Malachor - I believe that the intention was to destroy the Jedi, break their will, and make them loyal to Revan." This happened to all the jedi there - they either turned to the dark side or were killed on Malachor as Revan intended... Except for the Exile - he alone resisted Revan's intentions and avoided corruption. But he did so by wounding the force, when it tried to impose its will upon him, and that wound is focal point of the plot in K2. Kreia says it after killing the masters... Kreia: "There is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side.Did you never wonder how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly?The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion.Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from... save one.And that is what I sought to understand. How one could turn away from such power, give up the Force... and still live. But I see what happened now. It is because you had no choice.It is because you were afraid."

Revan didn't shoot HK up, he just shut him down... :D

I'd also recommend Persuade no matter which class you choose. Only the Exile may take Persuade, and it grants several conversation paths, so it's really a must IMHO. I always take and always place top priority on it. YMMV...

Actually, I think both T3 and HK went with Revan to the Unknown Regions and then returned with the ship. The recording of Bastila very clearly suggests that at least T3 was there... Bastila hologram: "I need you to be the beacon, T3. If he is lost out there, on the edge of the galaxy, if he finds whatever terrible thing he has seen, then he may not survive. If he doesn't make it back, then I need you to return to the Republic." There are comments by HK to suggest that he was damaged because Revan sabotaged or at least disconnected him. I guess Revan trusted T3 to go back or else he programmed him to.

Hmm, I've mentioned before that there seems to be a cut option to fight the Handmaidens in non-lethal combat upon the return to confront Atris, but now I've found something else that's interesting. It always struck me as odd that the Handmaiden joined the group. She may fall in love with the male Exile, but that seems unlikely to me from the brief conversation they have on Telos (the Disciple made more sense for the female Exile, since he knew her long ago). But now I've found voicefiles where Atris actually orders the Handmaiden to join the Exile's group and spy on him. Since they play as one almost uninterrupted sequence, I assume they were intended as a cutscene that never made it into the game. These files may be found in the \StreamVoice\262\ATRHAND folder. Interestingly one of the files (262ATRHAND015.wav) refers to the Exile as female, which is at odds with the current situation, where the Handmaiden only joins the group if the Exile is male. That seems to suggest that at least at one point the gender of the Exile was not a condition for Handmaiden being in the group. Is this cutscene something The Restoration Project team is aware of? I tried looking in the FAQ and Progress Report on the site, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned.

I take the fact that four pages of discussion on this topic as an indication that he or she was never mentioned in K2. Hmmm, that's actually rather interesting...

Probably, but that would actually be cool, too. I mean, depending your choices throughout the entire trilogy, you get to see various cutscenes that influence the ending. That could be good, I think. Hmm, thinking of what I did with Zaalbar in my proposed K3 plot, I wonder if Revan didn't charge him with assembling an army of Wookiees just as he did Canderous. I could see something like that in a cutscene, where the LS Revan tells Zaalbar to do this... "No, Zaalbar, you cannot come with me. Yes, I know you've sworn to always stay by my side, but the path I must now walk I must walk alone, since it is a path for the jedi alone. Just as you could not stand with me in the Rakatan temple, so you must now let me walk this path alone..." "But I do not wish to make you forsake your lifedebt. Indeed, if I survive the darkness that I must now face, then I will need strong allies to fight in the greatest war of our time, and the Republic is in no shape for that now. I have told Canderous to find the lost Mandalorians for this cause, but I fear that will not be enough. You can be of far greater help to me, if you can gather allies as well." "How? By uniting the Wookiees to our cause, Zaalbar. How many of your people have Czerka enslaved and scattered over the galaxy? How many of them have since rebelled and are now lost on foreign worlds? Find them, Zaalbar! Find them and unite them! For if I succeed in my task, then I will need their aid in the final war that will shape the future of the galaxy. Or something along those lines...

One reason is probably that the deadline was approaching. Remember that the verdict of the masters comes right at the time where the plot begins going downhill in most people's opinions. It's not even that the masters' decision is even that horrible - it is understandable to an extent, after all. The problem is that it's just badly written. While Vrook would not hesitate for a second to condemn you, it makes no sense that they all do so, especially not Zez-Kai Ell. As Kreia says: "He has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance!" For Zez-Kai Ell, this is an utter contradiction of what he told you about how he left the jedi because they would not reevaluate their own principles and teachings, and yet he now blindly stands behind the decision to sever the Exile from the force. That doesn't add up. It is far more important to stress in this situation that the masters reach the decision they do, because the wound the Exile has brought to the force is too dangerous, since it could destroy the force and, perhaps all life with it, while Kreia doesn't care, because she hates the force and is perfectly willing to take that risk. But that is never pointed out, and the masters don't even give the Exile a choice to voice his own take on the matter - they don't even allow the condemned to make a comment on their sentense... Bad storytelling there, I think... It would have been far more moving if Kavar and especially Zez-Kai Ell had been show to have genuine regret and sorrow about the decision, and yet know that they had to do it anyway... If you're playing LS, you could even have a sequence where the Exile accepts the sentense willingly only to have Kreia enter and stop it by killing the masters, thereby robbing you of ending the danger you present to the force, since she just won't let you take that option, and so imposes her goal on you over your own choice.

Agreed. In fact, I kind of like Kavar as well. He was a strategist and understood the need to sacrifice in war, but he didn't do it without regret. At least that's my take on him. It's too bad that the ending with the masters is so forced, since both Zez-Kai Ell and Kavar seem to have suddenly lost all the traits that humanized them and made them likable. Vrook, of course, remains the same old grumpy, lovable fool that he always was :D

That would be based on the choices the character has made in the game up to that point, I guess. We could argue that Revan's choice is not final in the game at that point, but that would be dodging the issue, since the masters would have had to base their choice of what they knew of the "new" Revan at that point. And I still find what Zez-Kai Ell says on Nar Shaddaa in K2 to be very revealing of the masters... Zez-Kai Ell: "I, too, lost a Padawan on Malachor. Not to the battle, but to the alternative - to the teachings that Revan brought from the Unknown Regions. {Quiet}And I was not the only Jedi Master to watch a student turn on them. No, no - they were not to blame, but many of the Order did so - it was a difficult time, a time of strong emotion.Perhaps the Council, perhaps the Order itself had grown arrogant in their teachings. It is easy to cast blame, but it is perhaps time the Order accepted responsibility for their teachings, and their arrogance, and come to recognize that perhaps we are flawed.Not once did I hear one of the Council claim responsibility for Revan, for Exar Kun, for Ulic, for Malak... or for you. Yet... you were the only one who came back from the wars to face our judgment. And rather than attempting to understand why you did what you did, we punished you instead.{Frustrated}Our one chance to see where we had gone wrong, and we cast it aside. And now, that decision has come back to us, and may carry with it, our destruction. Perhaps there is something wrong in us, in our teachings. And though I tried, I could not cause that thought to leave me - so I left the Council. And I was not the only one. That is why many scattered... and why many in the Republic do not trust us. And why we do not trust ourselves. Make no mistake - I am no Jedi. This is the end you see. After this, there will be nothing.{Quietly}And I think it will be for the best. Do you wish to do battle now? I have nothing more to say. It provides no comfort at all, for reasons on which I still must keep secret.Suffice to say redemption was not Revan's choice, and I have never believed those of the Council who attempt to console themselves otherwise for the crime they committed."

I wasn't talking about when they did the mind wipe, but when Revan came to Dantooine from Taris and began his retraining. I thought that was more than obvious from context - what companions did Revan have when Bastila's strike team brought him back to the jedi? None. So those can't be the companions I talked about. Only it's not their choice to make. Again, how many people is it okay to sacrifice for the greater good? The answer is none. The only one who could morally have made that choice was the individual himself - Revan. He was a different person from his experiences on Taris, and if you had played him as LS, he might even have gone along with the sacrifice they put him through. But they didn't. They didn't ask Bastila whether he had changed - or if they did they, it certainly had little or no influence on their use of him - and they didn't ask his companions. That doesn't paint a very nice picture of their motives. They had turned Revan into a weapon they could use and manipulate, and they never hesitated to do so... Where were all those moral and ethical standards they claimed to protect then? They got casually tossed out the window when they became inconvenient. Now, as I've said before, I can accept the necessity for using Revan under the circumstances to a point - that's not the problem. The problem is that the masters won't accept the moral responsibility and confess their sins after the fact. That makes them immoral and no better than the Sith, because it's exactly what the Sith would have done in their position. Yes, but you can't really blame Revan for that choice. As a jedi, it's his nature to wish to protect the innocent. It's only what they have themselves been teaching him to do his entire life... They may not have been happy about his disobedience, but looking at it only as that is exceedinly narrow-minded - they also have to examine his motives and reasons for choosing to defy them in the first place. There might have been good reasons. After all, if the masters are not willing to re-examine their own position, then how will they ever discover if they made a mistake themselves? Or put differently, it's the ancient question of "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" - who watches the watchers? Apparently nobody does, and that's a problem. Zez-Kai Ell even muses on this himself, when the Exile meets him on Nar Shaddaa in K2 - the Exile was a mystery, yet the masters were unwilling to examine it or to examine their own motives. They created a new personality to be totally loyal to their own goals, and yet at the same time they refuse to show trust because of past crimes from before the new pwersonality that themselves created... I guess double standards are better than none... "

I found it stupid that helping a clearly DS Kreia is LS. In the end I went nobody and "Apathy is Death" (part of the freak-out too). I didn't "learn" anything from their either. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's probably because Atton, Bao-Dur and T3 are determined to kill Kreia simply because she is DS, and though her alignment might prompt them to be suspicious of her and her motives, it is no excuse to simply murder her. I might have killed Hitler for his crimes, but I would still be a murderer if I did, and murder is never a good act. In fact, harming other people is never a good act, unless done to prevent them from causing direct harms to others (which would apply to soldiers in a war). It's not just a question of LS vs. DS - it's a question of motive. Standing up to evil Kreia is fine, but if you just kill her outright for being DS, then you really aren't being any better yourself than she is.

No need to wait for that - here's the recorded conversation from the dialog.tlk file (though I've identified who says what, but that's pretty obvious...): Droid: "My apologies, Jedi.You are on the register as one of the Jedi who left the Enclave to fight in the Mandolorian Wars. My memory has no record of your return before now.You had no direct interaction with this droid. However, I have one instance of a conversation between Masters Vrook and Vandar regarding you.Beginning playback... Error, recording partially corrupted. Resolving..." Vrook: "{static, 1 sec}...{annoyed}today I caught him in a heated argument with my Padawan! His Master refuses to properly discipline{static, 1 sec}. I want to know what action you intend! Vandar: "Vrook, I respect your wisdom, but it is not your concern." Vrook: "{upset} But... {static, 1 sec} uncontrolled! {static 1 sec}...whatever the other Padawans see him do, they are quick to do the same... {static}other students dislike him intensely!{patient} Vandar: "True, an average student of the Force... {static}but with a unique strength...{static} is a natural leader...{static}" Vrook: "{upset}I strongly disagree...{static, 2 sec} mediocre Jedi...{static 1 sec} lust for power! {static, 1 sec}...will lead to the dark side! Furthermore it... {static, 2 sec}" Droid: "Recording degraded. End playback..." Hmm, is it just me or is Vrook - again - in danger of falling to the dark side - jedi masters shouldn't be this upset over students, methinks. I mean, if he's that easy to upset, what will happen when he faces a true test to his temper? Anyway, I've quoted the conversation since it's come under the discussion here. An interesting thing is that Vrook actually mentions the Exile's master, though that still gives us no clue as to who that master was. A shame, but they I guess it goes without saying - expecting Vrook to be helpful would be too much to hope for... "

That's actually not so difficult to answer - because (if the Exile is DS) he embraces the dark side during the game (player choice). He did not, however, do so a decade before on Malachor V. Or you could argue that it's not mere rejection of the DS, but rather rejection of the fate the will of the force seeks to impose on him. Whether that fate is LS or DS doesn't matter - it's the fact that something else tries to force the choice for him that he is defiant against, and so the Exile becomes a Prometheus figure or sort of satanic hero as described in the works of Byron or Milton's "Paradise Lost". Agreed, but now that you mention it, this begs one very important question. If these are the dark moments of the Exile's past, then why don't we see him reliving the scene, where he gives the order to activate the mass shadow generator? I think that would also be the scene, where he rejects the will of the force, thereby wounding it. That is his defining moment, and yet it's just not there. Why? It could be because the Exile is still in denial about his choice...

Agreed. To augment the Republic's forces against the true Sith, Revan calls upon his own "army" of Mandalorians, Wookiees, etc...

It's a good question. I expect it should receive an answer if we ever see Revan or Zaalbar again, but I can't call it a flaw in K2, since we don't meet any of them, and so we simply don't know what happened. And there are several possibilities. As have been said, Zaalbar could be dead. A DS Revan could have killed him, but he could also have died for a LS Revan for some reason. And don't forget that in the LS ending for Kashyyyk, Zaalbar vows to come back and be chieftain for his tribe. A LS Revan might have used that to persuade Zaalbar that he had more than just the lifedebt to Revan - he had one to his people as well. Revan might also have charged Zaalbar with a mission before leaving. Note how Han instructs Chewbacca to protect Leia at the end of ESB. I could see Revan do something similar, especially an LS Revan. And, of course, Zaalbar could still be with Revan. We just don't know.

I think I began that by saying we're in "a bit of a dark age", since I don't feel the cRPGs that are being put out today are as good as some of those we've seen in the past (Fallout, Torment, Ultima...). I may have given others the impression that this *is* a dark age, though, or that I think it definitely so. My point was more than I think quality and depth (and plot) is suffering at the expense of graphics and visual combat in RPGs, and therefore many of the alleged cRPGs today are, to my eyes, really just "semi-cRPGs" - glorified hack-fests with few roleplaying choices. KotOR has a genuine choices (DS or LS) toward the end, but there are only two, and that's about the only genuine one. At all other times, it's a question of whether you want to back the lock open or pick the lock with Security - disrupt/detonate or collect the mines, etc... Your choices are few and have next to no lasting effect on the game. Yes, it may seem so at first glance, but there are several factors that we should take into consideration before we simply accuse the devs of wanting to make more money, though they will go where the money is - they're companies, after all, and those exist to make money, and preferably more than before... I mean, examine a classic cRPG like Fallout 2. How long was the production schedule for that, how many people worked on it, and how muc did it cost to make? I don't know, but it wasn't anywhere near to what it costs to make a game like K2, even though that was rushed and unfinished. Metadigitial has accused me in the past of thinking that voiceacting is far more expensive than it really is. Fine, let's say he's right. Even if he is, it will still cost more to produce K2 on the voiceacting front alone, since there is lots of voiceacting in it. Indeed, all text is spoken in K2 except for item descriptions or datapads and the optional conversation paths for the main character. In Fallout 2, voiceacting of any kind was rare, and you only saw it on occasion (those infamous talking heads). So clearly is was less costly to produce on this basis alone. In fact, Fallout 2 uses text only to tell the majority of its plot and background to the player with only the occasional "talking head" and short movie. In K2 you expect *everyone* to talk (and they do) and you expect to see movies almost constantly (and you do). This means more programming, more graphics to produce, and more voiceacting. Or look at graphics. Fallout 2 was simple 2D maps and graphics. That won't be tolerated today - everything *must* be in a 3D representation today, or it will have no chance to sell. Today writing a computer game is a major undertaking - we're usually talking about 25+ people working full time throughout the production schedule, and as others have said, giving a schedule of a "mere" year will raise eyebrows and meet skepticism, since the team doing the work knows that it is an exceedingly tight timetable. In short, the cost for making computer games today has soared to the skies because the standard for what must be in those games is so much higher now - telling the story to the player through text is no longer an option. It's ancient and the market simply won't tolerate it.