Jediphile

I didn't say they had immunity. I said it's reasonable that they do. Why? I have argued why I do not think so. You may question that, but the discussion is unfair if you will not be called to do the same.. I don't know for fact that they do, no. However, I can speculative and have stated why. You, however, say that it is reasonable that they do, only you feel justified in doing so without providing any basis to do so, while calling mine into question. If you cannot or will not provide any observations in support of your position, then you have no argument. You might as well argue Tigh is actually God and the whole series is his dream or some such. It does follow that they are different and that some different rules apply. Quite possibly, the human rules. Again, why? They are not humans, but cylons. They are different from other cylons, yes, but why does that make them more like humans than like cylons? Where is your basis for reaching that conclusion? I refuted one point of yours. I called your other points into significant question that you can no longer say that Helo definitely can't be a Cylon. Actually, I can if I'm allowed to take what the episode tells me as factual in the discussion. The episode tells us that Athena, who is NOT one of the final five, has become immune because she had a child with a human - Helo. If that is to be a valid argument - made by the episode, not by me - then Helo must be human. QED. Unless, of course, you want to argue that he is "special" or that it doesn't apply if the person in question has given up his seat to a traitor to stay behind on a dying planet ravaged by nuclear winter beneath a moon made of cheese or whatever...

Besides, you can use the Qixoni crystal, even if you're LS, you just have to put it in the same lightsaber as you put the "name" crystal found on Dantooine. Not sure if you need to "level up" the "name" crystal to the max, but I've managed to have them both in the same lightsaber while having LS mastery (and without cheating).

O RLY? Yeah, given how they made Shaak-Ti look in TFU, I find that hard to believe...

Well, it would make the entire story arc about Hera pointless. For one thing, since the known cylons initially staged the relationships between Helo and Athena because they were unable to produce children among themselves. Another reason is that Athena survived disease on the basestar in "A Measure of Salvation" early in the third season because she had conceived a child with a human, which somehow made her immune. Had Helo been a cylon, that could not have happened. And I should correct myself. I thought the same episode established why Roslin cannot be a cylon, because she met one of the infected cylons and yet did not contract the disease. I was mistaken, though, because I forgot that Baltar injected Hera's blood into Roslin during "Epiphanies" half-way through season 2, so naturally she would be just as immune to the disease as Athena turned out to be. And if you think it's a plothole that Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders were not affected by that disease, then nope - it's not, because conveniently (and perhaps a little too conveniently), none of them ever met an infected cylon in that episode. The same disease also establishes why Baltar cannot be a cylon, since in the preceding episode, "Torn", the cylons sent him to investigate the disease on an infected basestar precisely because he was immune as a human. All of this is debunked by the fact that the final five are close enough to human themselves that they can manage to have children with other Cylons (RE: Tigh+Six). This outright refutes your first point. Accepting this, it's easily possible that they also have the same immunity. Because the final five are different. And exactly by which basis do you proceed to postulate that the final five have the same immunity? Just because the final five seem capable to reproduce with other cylons (and that is assuming Six's child is Tigh's, which we actually don't know either), it does not automatically follow that they must have the same immunity. Hence you cannot refute the point. At most you can question it. The final five may different, but we don't know in what ways. They are different, but they are not a different species from the other cylon models we know. At least, I would not conclude so, since the "there are twelve models" bit then begins to border on the irrelevant. The cylons changed when they were confronted with mortality, and at least four of the final have always been faced with that. That might just as well be what allows them to have children - as long as they retain immortality they cannot reproduce, but when they accept mortality they gain the ability to do so. Granted, that is a supposition too, but it is just as valid as yours. Besides, if we're to believe Cottle's conclusion in "A Measure of Salvation", humans are immune to the disease because it's fairly common to humanity, whereas it is totally unknown to the cylons, who thus have not developed the defense against it over the generations as humans have, because cylons have no generations, as they never reproduced, but just kept cloning the same originals over and over. No, that's not proof, because we can't have that, but it's what we're able to assume based on the clues we do have.

which full Cylon child? You have Hera (I never quite understood if it's Caprica 6 + Baltar's or Athena + Halo's?) which is Human/Cylon and Tyrol + Cally's kid, which is also Human/Cylon. Yes, I noted that too. I guess that will later point to other differences between the seven known cylons and the final five. Haven't gotten there yet. I'm pretty sure Tyrol's son will also be significant, but except for Hera, the others have been left in the background so far. And about the final cylon, D'Anna says four are in the fleet. However, then only humans she has seen at the time she says so are Helo - whom we know is not a cylon - and Roslin. And she did ask Roslin if she knew she was a cylon, didn't she? And come to think of it, didn't Roslin act confused as if she blacked out for a second when the fleet jumped to the nebula at the end of season three, when Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders found out they were cylons. Then again, there is evidence to contradict that as well, assuming Moore has been consistent and known who the final cylon was. How can we know Helo is not a Cylon? Well, it would make the entire story arc about Hera pointless. For one thing, since the known cylons initially staged the relationships between Helo and Athena because they were unable to produce children among themselves. Another reason is that Athena survived disease on the basestar in "A Measure of Salvation" early in the third season because she had conceived a child with a human, which somehow made her immune. Had Helo been a cylon, that could not have happened. And I should correct myself. I thought the same episode established why Roslin cannot be a cylon, because she met one of the infected cylons and yet did not contract the disease. I was mistaken, though, because I forgot that Baltar injected Hera's blood into Roslin during "Epiphanies" half-way through season 2, so naturally she would be just as immune to the disease as Athena turned out to be. And if you think it's a plothole that Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders were not affected by that disease, then nope - it's not, because conveniently (and perhaps a little too conveniently), none of them ever met an infected cylon in that episode. The same disease also establishes why Baltar cannot be a cylon, since in the preceding episode, "Torn", the cylons sent him to investigate the disease on an infected basestar precisely because he was immune as a human.

which full Cylon child? You have Hera (I never quite understood if it's Caprica 6 + Baltar's or Athena + Halo's?) which is Human/Cylon and Tyrol + Cally's kid, which is also Human/Cylon. Yes, I noted that too. I guess that will later point to other differences between the seven known cylons and the final five. Haven't gotten there yet. I'm pretty sure Tyrol's son will also be significant, but except for Hera, the others have been left in the background so far. And about the final cylon, D'Anna says four are in the fleet. However, then only humans she has seen at the time she says so are Helo - whom we know is not a cylon - and Roslin. And she did ask Roslin if she knew she was a cylon, didn't she? And come to think of it, didn't Roslin act confused as if she blacked out for a second when the fleet jumped to the nebula at the end of season three, when Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders found out they were cylons. Then again, there is evidence to contradict that as well, assuming Moore has been consistent and known who the final cylon was.

And when you get the scene where she admits to her feelings for you, but concludes that it's only due to your mutual bond, tell her that she's hiding from the truth. She'll say that such feelings are not allowed among the jedi, and you have to tell to give in just this once. That should trigger the scene in the cargo hold that HK-47 mocks in the sequel. You'll still have to be firm that she is hiding from her feelings and admit your own to her as well, though.

Perhaps. He does seem to be the favored contender for the title. But the jury is officially still out on that one until LA sees fit to tell us who it is. But honestly, I don't think it's particularly important, so maybe we'll never know...

D20 rules, which KotOR is based on, use the Two-Weapon Fighting feats for both a weapon that requires both hands to use and two weapons (one in each hand). Although the feats have been revised heavily for both games, that principle remains the same. To compensate the Dueling feats were introduced to make a single weapon a viable option (it doesn't quite do the trick IMHO, though). The Dueling feat does not appear in the D20 rules, at least that I've seen. Then again, I hate D20 and its ilk with a passion...

And you can put more crystals in two lightsabers than one... And you can really find some saber crystals in TSL that will buff damage, speed and particularly stats to absolutely ridiculous degrees, even without cheating.

Darth Bane is the sith lord who implemented the "rule of two" among the sith about a thousand years before the movies (about 3000 years after the KotOR games). If you're interested, start your reading here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane

No. Just plain no, you don't need good graphics. I played games with terrible graphics back way back, and I loved it. The graphics of Tetris was woefully outdated when the game came out. Did that stop from being great or even popular? No. It was a good game - a classic - and that is all there is to it. It's even true today. Heck, some of us still play Fallout 1 and 2. Or take another example, I don't play Star Trek Armada II because I don't like the plot, but I loved it in the original and would still play that today if it worked on my system, and that game far less features and not nearly as good graphics. Quite simply, if the game is good then the graphics are a total non-issue. The only reason that graphics seem important today is that the developers are so out of ideas that pushing the technical limitations is about the only frontier they got left, and naturally graphics is the frontrunner there. Besides, the graphics in TSL are EXACTLY the same as in KOTOR - that they used the EXACT same graphics engine was what allowed them to do the game in about a year. Had it not been the same graphics, the game would not have been released as soon after KotOR as it was.' And storyline was the one thing where TSL beat the original hands down. TSL is original. I'll grant that it's told badly in places, and one of those is regrettably in the endgame. It's why I consider K1 the better GAME, but it doesn't change the fact that TSL was far, far more original and had much, much deeper characters. You've got about one of the best characters in any computer game plot ever in Kreia, both from the plot around her and the voice-acting. K1, by comparison, had a carbon-copied plot stolen from the original movie trilogy with Bioware's by-now mandatory "I have amnesia and must find and confront my dark, evil past"-plot thrown in for good measure, complete with about the cheesiest villain imaginable.

As much as I like KotOR, I'll be wary of K3. LA rushed TSL and released a game that is IMHO unfinished. And the reaction and reception was not kind, because a lot of sources seem to agree that Obsidian had done a fine job, which LA totally dropped the ball on. My own suspicion is that this matter is still so embarrasing to LA that they've put a hold on K3. I mean, they even nixed the content patch that Obsidian wanted to do, and now the FANS are finishing the game. Can it get more embarrasing? I wouldn't be surprised if LA is waiting for TSLRP to come out and make some waves, and once that's all over, then we'll hear about K3. Pure speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Seems the last "half" of the final season 4 has been extended with two more episodes. Yay! http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-200...ry_list;title;0

Yeah... You know what that means.

No need. I've never had to do that, even though I max my influence with Visas in the first conversation. You just have to make sure your influence is pretty high with Handmaiden before you talk to Visas. As for sacrificing Visas, that can be done only at one point in the game

The problem with Peragus is that it's just such a long, long walk through the tunnels and corridors as you kill droids. There is virtually no interaction at all. Until you meet the HK unit, of course, at which point you're drowned in dialogue... Taris at least gave you a sense of being in a place that mattered a little and was not the hind-end of space that everybody forgot about. Not that Taris doesn't have it's flaws - it's actually impossible to make the Sith troopers aware of my status as a Republic soldier, even though it's blindingly obvious and they are supposed to be actively looking for me...

I didn't this time

They don't have a say in it. They want to do K3 and have said so several times, but LA owns Star Wars, and so it's all up to them. If they don't want to do K3, there is none. If they want K3, but don't want Obsidian to develop it, then Obsidian is out. LA wants to do only so many Star Wars games a year, and it seems right now other projects take priority for them. I'd agree if you think that blows, but there it is...

Fairly certain the last cylon is in the fleet too, we just don't know who it is yet. What are you talking about? They were instrumental in helping Starbuck realise how to find Earth. No, it was to force the cylons to confront the concept of mortality. When they did, they became very similar to humans indeed. Besides, the final five can't resurrect, as it would make no sense - how can there cloned bodies for them, if the known seven don't even know who they are? Still ten episodes left - it's not over yet. Waiting for them will be the challenge of patience indeed.

What, you expect LA to tell just you? Sorry, but I think KotOR3 remains in limbo since the staffers at LA working on it were laid off a few years back, and LA seems at a loss for what to do about the series next. There is no news, but assured that if there is news or just rumors (more than enough of those...), it'll be all over this place in seconds. Also, this thread is about to be locked down, as K3 speculation is to take place in the topic for that only.

Boy, did they ever manage to end that mid-season finale on both an all-time high AND low note I agree with Apollo - where do we go from here? Waiting for the final ten episodes is going to be plain torture!

This is a known bug. I've never encountered it myself, which may be because it appears to emerge with one of the patches for the game, and I never bothered to patch TSL. Reverting to an earlier save may be the only solution. At the very least the game should have made an auto-save for you. Still sucks, of course, but for games like this one, you should save often AND in different slots. It's true for all games like this, and TSL is no exception. Alternatively you might use the KotOR savegame editor to "reset" your position and missions, but I'd be careful messing around with that stuff myself. While I do use KSE, I do so lightly.

The problem is that Bioware tells pretty much the same plot every time. They may do it well, but how long can you stand that? Unless, of course, you don't care about plot and just want nice graphics and cool gadgets in the game. TSL may have been bugged over severely and suffer criminally from cut content, but the plot was much, much deeper and original that Bioware's was in the first game, which was basically a retelling of the original trilogy with the mandatory Bioware "I have forgotte my dark, evil past and must confront it"-plot thrown into the mix. But like I said, they did it well... except for just about the cheesiest villain I've yet seen in a computer game. I mean, just listen to Malak's laugh

That bit is notably bugged. After you get the mission, you're supposed to stop by Czerka to see Lorso and find the two criminals there. During a cutscene Lorso promises them safe passage to the Surface on Telos, but when you recognize them, they escape without giving you the change to fight them. You're then supposed to go to the surface and hunt them down, only instead you can simply go back to Lt. Grenn and tell him you already hunted them down and killed them on the surface. He'll believe you and say there is evidence to support your claim and give you your reward. However, if you don't do this, they should be on Telos' surface. Otherwise they will be replaced by a group of Czerka mercenaries. Like other quests, such as redeeming the jedi on Dantooine, this quest suffers from cut content or just plain bugs and glitches. G0T0 always objects to getting the fuel from the Hutts, but Vogga is the only one who can provide it. This bit is frequently bugged, and I think I've only got it all to play out right once after numerous playthroughs. Basically, start get the quest from Lt. Grenn on Telos. Once you reach Nar Shaddaa, visit Vogga. You'll find someone outside his place on the same mission, btw. Then ask Vogga about fuel for Telos. He'll tell you that he has the fuel, but that he won't ship it, because Goto is hijacking his transports. You can now make a deal with him to sell fuel to Telos, if you deal with Goto for him. It's as this point things usually go wrong. I have this suspicion that some events related to Vogga somehow resets or lets the game "forget" that you made the deal with him. Anyway, once you've been taken to Goto's yacht and finished that mission, you can return to Vogga. If things aren't bugged, you should be able to tell him that you've dealt with Goto for him and he now has to hold up his end of the agreement. He'll try to haggle the price for fuel up of course - he is a Hutt, after all - but you can remind him of the agreement and even get him to lower the price, if you have a high persuade skill rank. After that you return to Telos' Citadel Station and inform Lt. Grenn of the good news. But like I said, it doesn't always work. For some reason you don't always get the option to have the last conversation with Vogga, and it instead reverts to him talking about Goto hijacking his transports, even if you've already been on Goto's yacht.