Jediphile

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canderous

I'm fairly certain that when this topic started, "old jedi order" meant the jedi order during Revan's time, which was all but annihilated in TSL, while "new jedi order" meant the jedi order during the prequel movies (episodes 1-3). Now I'm not so sure, though... Erm... Okay, I won't then. Otherwise you can look here, since that way I wasn't then one who said it... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#P....80.9311_ABY.29 IIRC, he said something to that effect in an interview on 60 Minutes at one point. That being the case, I can't point to a convenient link, I'm afraid.

1. Nah - I missed the Heal powers way too much playing DS, so I don't think that holds. Heck, even Luke used Force Choke in RotJ, and he became the jedi grand master. It's how you use it, not what you use. Using Force Push to push the helpless soldiers over the ege to fall to their deaths DS if incapacitating them with Stun powers is just as viable an option for you, even though Force Push is a neutral power. 2. No, the sith are bound by moral codes as well, or rather a lack of them. I might misinterpret you, and if that is the case I apologize in advance, but this sounds awfully like the classic D&D argument that "chaotic evil is more "free" because you're not bound by ethics and can do whatever you want". But aligments or moral codes are not straight jackets - they are descriptions of what sort of a person a character is. If the person is moral and ethical, he follows a moral code and will not do evil things. It can limit a person at times, sure, but being evil and selfish does not make you more "free" somehow, because still defines you by an "anti-moral code" or lack of a moral code. If you're like that, then you do selfish acts. Suddenly choosing to good is not an option, because then you're not behaving according to the character you've defined yourself as, which means you have moral inconsistency and that you're probably facing an identity crisis. Sorry, but I've had far too many players argue that way in my various RPG campaigns over the years to fall for that argument... 3. I agree. Anakin was more powerful. He was not, however, more experienced, and he was also arrogant about his power. Those are the reasons he lost, not because Obi-Wan was stronger. Anakin was just overconfident and untrained in his true potential, and that virtually always leads to disaster, whereas Obi-wan knew his limits and strengths and played to them. 4. I wouldn't call it one-sided or say Yoda didn't have a chance. I thought he had a fair chance. But he did lose and admitted it. In the end Sidious was just too tough. The film has a major plothole there, though. We know the jedi don't have a code of "it must a one-on-one fight" because Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fought together against Darth Maul two-to-one in Episode I. Yoda and Obi-Wan are both there on Coruscant with Sidious, while Vader is on Mustafar. So why the heck don't they stay together and take Sidious down? Surely they would have stood a better chance two-to-one than Yoda alone against Sidious... And after that, they could have taken Vader on together. I've always desperately needed an excuse for why they could not do that, but the plot never gave us one. 5. Thanks.

Way ahead of you http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...5628&st=467 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=177894 EDIT: Oh, those should be marked "potential K3 spoilers" btw - I don't claim to know what will happen in K3, but Avellone subsequently stated things that definitely lended more support than speak against the above speculation.

Maybe it'll surprise you to know that the KotOR games are founded a system used by the Star Wars tabletop RPG system, the latest incarnation of which is based on the D20 system, which basically just means it uses the same base as the third edition of Dungeons & Dragons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_d20 The fringer is a class in the D20 Star Wars system, just like other non-jedi classes such as scoundrels like Atton (pre-jedi) and Mission, tech specialists like Bao-Dur (pre-jedi), soldiers like Carth or Canderous, or scouts like Zaalbar. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fringer And no, I don't bring it as stats relevant to movie - you did by saying the following: My point is that it's a minefield beginning to do that, which you did by claiming characters in KotOR are far more powerful than those we see in the movie. But there are gamebalancing reasons for that, and hence it is best not to interpret too much from that. What excuses? That's just an explanation. Besides, post-movie EU see Luke, Leia and the emperor far, far stronger than we did in the movies. Sure, it can be argued that much was forgotten because the jedi were all but wiped out by Palpatine's treachery, while he and Vader were the only two sith around, but much was reclaimed later with the re-discovery of Ossus, Korriban and other forgotten places. Besides, no matter what anyone argues, George Lucas has decreed that Palpatine was the ultimate sith lord, and in Star Wars his word is law.

I thought he looks more like a younger Statler. Then again, that might just be because he complains about as much

Haha! Lets hope KOTOR 3 is at least in the making by then. That seems a tad optimistic, doesn't it?

You need to both cycle through his various conversations (which are few and short) and build influence with him at the same time. The latter can be difficult, since he generally gains influence only if he is in the group to watch your benevolent acts, which almost always means taking LS points. And he has to be there to see it - you can't sweettalk your way to influence with Bao-Dur. However, if your influence is high enough with him and you've gone through the preceeding conversations, the option to convert him into a jedi guardian will automatically come about. At least it always has for me. Simply. Build influence with her, then talk about jedi stuff with her. At one point she'll make a reference to Nar Shaddaa. When she does, tell her how Kreia once taught you to feel the city and that you'll do the same the next time you're there (you don't have to leave Nar Shaddaa for this, but you do have to have the talk on the Ebon Hawk). Then take her in the group to the central area of Nar Shaddaa where Kreia gave you her "feel the city" speech and the jedi bit will automatically trigger when you get to the right point.

Or they simply used those devices because they had them and using them was more convenient. How breath control works is undetermined, as far as I know, though, which is probably because knowing how it works is not relevant to the plot. It can be argued that jedi/sith can do such things, and then that is enough. They might simply absorb oxygen-molecules straight into the body for all we know. But I don't think it's terribly important... Fast speed seems to be fairly common for both jedi and sith, yes. Luke is a jedi and can counter/redirect some of the emperor's lighting, whereas common people cannot and get fried. Okay, so Luke may not be most experienced jedi at that point, but - going by game terms - he doesn't have to be to learn Force or Energy Reistance. And according to the revised D20 rulebook, Luke is a Fringer/Jedi Guardian level 2/7 by the end of RotJ. Because Battle Meditation was only thought of after the original trilogy was made. Until Nomi Sunrider was given the power in the Tales of the Jedi comic books, it did not exist in Star Wars. It has been speculated, though, that Palpatine had this power, and used the power against the rebels during the Battle of Endor, which is why the battle turned, after Vader killed him. That's speculation, however, and seems to me to rationalize the events after the fact. Comparing the movies to the games in this manner is usually bound to lead to all sorts of flawed conclusions. The simple fact is that the games use a very simplistic hit point system (from D&D 3e) to represent damage. For one reason this is to ensure that your main character doesn't lose limbs left and right, since that is deemed to make the game less fun to play. Losing a limb can be done in the movies for dramatic purposes to serve the evolving plot, but then writers have absolute control over how things evolve plotwise in both movies, books and comics. They do not in computer games or even RPGs. Besides, it's not true - Kreia lost her hand, remember?

Relax. So much of Star Wars history is still unwritten. If we try to define the Sith'ari now, then what stories will be left for future writers to tell?

Master Tyvokka and Lowbacca would be the primary examples.

1. Don't bring video game powers into this, those powers were put in there to balance out the game so that light sided people would not be too weak to finish the game. Also, the Sith gain the amount of power in a short time that it takes a Jedi his life to attain, so you will obviously have more powerful Sith than powerful Jedi. 2. You ARE a slave to the lightside, more so than any Sith has ever been to the Dark Side. A Jedi are limited by the strictest rules and their own morals, while nothing holds back the Sith and they have the freedom to do anything to accomplish their goals. Take for example the fight between Mace Windu and Palpatine. Palpatine was defeated and instead of mercilously striking down his foe as any Sith would, Windu was held back by the Jedi regulations that would not allow him to kill. Although he did decide to break those restrictions, the time he wasted stalling was all that was needed for soon-to-be Darth Vader to step in and attack Windu. 3. Anakin was much younger than Obi-Wan, the reason it was such a close fight. Obi-Wan had a much longer time to train his abilities, but he was only barely able to defeat Anakin because Anakin was using the power of the Dark Side. 4. Yoda was incredibly powerful in the force and had 800-900 years to perfect his abilities. I have not seen any other Jedi able to do such a thing. I don't really remember the fight except that Yoda didn't really have much of a chance anyway. 5. This point I don't think can really aply to either group as a whole. The amount of bravery or cowardice is not the same across every member of the Sith/Jedi groups. You have to look at individuals' personalities seperately. I actually think that the Sith are less cowardly as a whole because Sith have nothing to fear; they are the most feared group in Star Wars history. 1. I would agree that basing the argument on the video games is ill-adviced. Even if we ignore the heavy modifications to the rules made by the developers as well as game-balancing issues, it doesn't make for a good argument considering lots and lots of LS players take and frequently use Force Storm despite the DS hit in force points. I know I did, and I'm as LS as can be 2. "Great warrior... Wars not make one great." 3. Bad logic IMHO. "You cannot fly. A stone cannot fly. Therefore you are a stone." Besides, DS-fans might just as well point out that Vader/Anakin eventually killed Obi-Wan. 4. "Into exile I must go - failed I have." 5. A Sith would run because he doesn't care about the nation/homeworld or its people. It does not necessarily follow from that that he is therefore weaker. His priorities simply aren't the same, and he sees no reason to stick around to defend a lost cause. A sith would call running in that case prudent. After all, what is gained by staying behind to fight? Yoda did the same btw, when he ran from Sidious instead of staying around to die. Does that make him weak, or does it mean he is prudent because he looks at the greater good in the long run? Not that I disagree that determination is not relevant. It is, but it's not a fair comparison. The common homelander will always win against the trained mercenaries in the long run because they are willing to sacrifice more - they are fighting for their homeland and their families, while the mercenaries are just fighting for money they could probably get with less effort elsewhere once things get tough. Conviction is important. However, that does not mean the Sith have no conviction, it just isn't belief in the common greater good for all as it is for the jedi. Sidious is correct about one thing - if you want to look at things, you have to take a broader perspective of the force than just the dogmatic view of the jedi. Of course, Sidious is completely self-serving when he says it, but that does not make it untrue. When the jedi have failed - as in KotOR II - it is frequenly when they refuse to look beyond their own dogmatic views.

It hasn't always. The fight between Jedi (LS) and Sith (DS) is the fight between good and evil, which is an eternal struggle with temporary defeats and wins for both sides in a war, where neither side will ever truly prevail. Because those who follow the Dark Side know no trust - they had to betray and abuse others to get the power they have, and so they expect the same from everyone else, and usually with good reason too. The Sith 'Rule of Two' would seem to have beeninstituted because many sith lords invariably results in constant in-fighting, but even if it prevents at least some of it, it also keeps those at the top in power and so prevents those below from achieving their true potential. And if they do, they do so by killing and replacing those in power, which means that either way, the Sith are not all they can be. Yet despite that, the DS seems able to hold its own against the LS at every turn. Conclusion: The dark side is stronger, but it can never reach its full potential, because it can know no trust. The LS endures in spite being weaker, because it knows trust and so the jedi can cooperate to overcome the sith.

Thankfully a good ending to a terrible match. IMHO Spain totally deserved the win. They may not have played as beautifully as they did in the initial games, because the Italians were so very defensive and ruined their game, but at least they wanted to play football. Honestly, if Italy hates football so much, why didn't they just bring a gun and fire it at the ball? They were incredibly defensive and destroyed the match. At least the right team went onto the semi-finals. Sort of a shame, though, that Spain must now meet Russia, because they are by far to the two best teams left IMHO, and one of them will have to go. I expect a final between Spain and Germany now.

The <Fullname> crystal is (or becomes through Kreia's efforts) whatever alignment you are, so if you're very LS or DS, that works to "counteract" an alignment restriction tied to the opposite alignment.

In this case "Quoted for emphasis" Equally common in "web-slang" and meaning the same is QFT = "Quoted for truth" If you're uncertain about this terms at times (and who isn't - I know I am), I recommend bookmarking http://www.acronymfinder.com/

Given how excellent Croatia played in the first round, I find it difficult to say the least how they did virtually nothing for 110+ minutes. Turkey is one thing - I consider them mostly driven by the mood of the day, but I thought Croatia was a good enough team to do reasonably even on a slow day. Instead they managed to severely underimpress. Turkey may not be as good footballers in my book, but at least they were willing to fight for the victory.

I think that's either Roman Pavlyuchenko (who scored Russia's first goal) or Andrei Arshavin (who scored the last). Pavlyuchenko is a true forward type, very fast and dangerous, but Arshavin was nothing short of fantastic in the match - he challenged the dutch defense again and again, and they had a severely hard time keeping track of him. He broke their defensive ranks repeatedly with his speed and moves. Well, there is some truth to that. Football is unpredictable, which is one of the things that makes it interesting to watch - anything can and frequently will happen. I mean, who honestly though Turkey would score and then win on penalty kicks when Croatia scored about 3 minutes before the end, or was it even that much, on friday? Besides, teams that do well early on and then become complacent and overconfident to the point of arrogance, like Portugal and Croatia - IMHO - this time around, tend to pay dearly for their attitude, which is always appealing. Also, I'd like to point out something about the match between Holland and Russia - the next time someone says football/soccer is boring and there are too few goals, they should watch the first half of that match - no goals, but boy was that excellent football. Croatia vs. Turkey is the opposite example - completely boring match until we reached the extended game.

Agreed. Oh, and don't forget the pacifist "upgrade" I had a saved game from Korriban just after the confrontation with Sion. I gave myself the vocabulator and then installed it in him. Of course it means I have to do the cave on Korriban again, along with the dantooine enclave, the bit on handmaiden with Atris and then the last bit on Citadel station before entering the ravager. I'd still recommend you finish your current game and then play again to experience HK, because at this point you'll have missed the vast majority of chances to increase influence HK and listen to his comments in various situations. You could still use KSE to up influence with him to get the conversations with him, I suppose, but you'd still miss out on a lot.

Yeah, wasn't Hanharr nixed as a potential (dark) jedi because George decreed no to more wookiee jedi/sith? I know Obsidian wanted to have a hanharr as a potential (dark) jedi and someone at LA nixed it.

Agreed. Oh, and don't forget the pacifist "upgrade"

Obviously Joseph McCarthy has not lived in vain...

Very surprising win for Russia. I'm disappointed that Holland did not have the strength of tactical finesse to resist more. They've played beautifully during the tournament, but the russians managed to defend aggressively against them, and the dutch had no countermoves to that and fell apart. Disappointing. I must say this is one of the better Euro tournament in the last decade, though. It's clearly those teams who want to play offensive football who reached the quarter finals. So far I've been dead wrong about who would win those. I was certain Portugal would beat Germany, but they just gave up for about 20-30 minutes after Ballack scored, and although they can claim he pushed his way to that goal and that they reduced to 2-3 late in the game, it's still disappointing that just lost hope for so long during the game. Hence the germans deserved it in my book. I was surprised to say the least at the match between Croatia and Turkey, though. Absolutely the most boring match yet. 90 minutes and nothing. Heck, 115 minutes and nothing. Then 5 minutes and a penalty kick with all the thrills. That tastes like lazy game to me, and it looked like it too - that's 115 minutes we're not getting back, hence neither team deserved the win IMHO, and the winner deserves to be kicked out by the germans. So, so far I've been wrong about three out of four quarterfinals. I suppose that means I should now just begin second-guessing myself and say Italy will win tomorrow. But frankly, Spain is the only team left that truly impressed me during the initial games, so...