Jediphile

They don't have a say in it. They want to do K3 and have said so several times, but LA owns Star Wars, and so it's all up to them. If they don't want to do K3, there is none. If they want K3, but don't want Obsidian to develop it, then Obsidian is out. LA wants to do only so many Star Wars games a year, and it seems right now other projects take priority for them. I'd agree if you think that blows, but there it is...

Fairly certain the last cylon is in the fleet too, we just don't know who it is yet. What are you talking about? They were instrumental in helping Starbuck realise how to find Earth. No, it was to force the cylons to confront the concept of mortality. When they did, they became very similar to humans indeed. Besides, the final five can't resurrect, as it would make no sense - how can there cloned bodies for them, if the known seven don't even know who they are? Still ten episodes left - it's not over yet. Waiting for them will be the challenge of patience indeed.

What, you expect LA to tell just you? Sorry, but I think KotOR3 remains in limbo since the staffers at LA working on it were laid off a few years back, and LA seems at a loss for what to do about the series next. There is no news, but assured that if there is news or just rumors (more than enough of those...), it'll be all over this place in seconds. Also, this thread is about to be locked down, as K3 speculation is to take place in the topic for that only.

Boy, did they ever manage to end that mid-season finale on both an all-time high AND low note I agree with Apollo - where do we go from here? Waiting for the final ten episodes is going to be plain torture!

This is a known bug. I've never encountered it myself, which may be because it appears to emerge with one of the patches for the game, and I never bothered to patch TSL. Reverting to an earlier save may be the only solution. At the very least the game should have made an auto-save for you. Still sucks, of course, but for games like this one, you should save often AND in different slots. It's true for all games like this, and TSL is no exception. Alternatively you might use the KotOR savegame editor to "reset" your position and missions, but I'd be careful messing around with that stuff myself. While I do use KSE, I do so lightly.

The problem is that Bioware tells pretty much the same plot every time. They may do it well, but how long can you stand that? Unless, of course, you don't care about plot and just want nice graphics and cool gadgets in the game. TSL may have been bugged over severely and suffer criminally from cut content, but the plot was much, much deeper and original that Bioware's was in the first game, which was basically a retelling of the original trilogy with the mandatory Bioware "I have forgotte my dark, evil past and must confront it"-plot thrown into the mix. But like I said, they did it well... except for just about the cheesiest villain I've yet seen in a computer game. I mean, just listen to Malak's laugh

That bit is notably bugged. After you get the mission, you're supposed to stop by Czerka to see Lorso and find the two criminals there. During a cutscene Lorso promises them safe passage to the Surface on Telos, but when you recognize them, they escape without giving you the change to fight them. You're then supposed to go to the surface and hunt them down, only instead you can simply go back to Lt. Grenn and tell him you already hunted them down and killed them on the surface. He'll believe you and say there is evidence to support your claim and give you your reward. However, if you don't do this, they should be on Telos' surface. Otherwise they will be replaced by a group of Czerka mercenaries. Like other quests, such as redeeming the jedi on Dantooine, this quest suffers from cut content or just plain bugs and glitches. G0T0 always objects to getting the fuel from the Hutts, but Vogga is the only one who can provide it. This bit is frequently bugged, and I think I've only got it all to play out right once after numerous playthroughs. Basically, start get the quest from Lt. Grenn on Telos. Once you reach Nar Shaddaa, visit Vogga. You'll find someone outside his place on the same mission, btw. Then ask Vogga about fuel for Telos. He'll tell you that he has the fuel, but that he won't ship it, because Goto is hijacking his transports. You can now make a deal with him to sell fuel to Telos, if you deal with Goto for him. It's as this point things usually go wrong. I have this suspicion that some events related to Vogga somehow resets or lets the game "forget" that you made the deal with him. Anyway, once you've been taken to Goto's yacht and finished that mission, you can return to Vogga. If things aren't bugged, you should be able to tell him that you've dealt with Goto for him and he now has to hold up his end of the agreement. He'll try to haggle the price for fuel up of course - he is a Hutt, after all - but you can remind him of the agreement and even get him to lower the price, if you have a high persuade skill rank. After that you return to Telos' Citadel Station and inform Lt. Grenn of the good news. But like I said, it doesn't always work. For some reason you don't always get the option to have the last conversation with Vogga, and it instead reverts to him talking about Goto hijacking his transports, even if you've already been on Goto's yacht.

With lightsabers, starships, and a plot continued from a game that is then said not to exist. Uh-huh...

Overconfidence. He thought he could wield the dark side like a weapon and not be touched by it. But like Ulic before him and Luke later, he found it doesn't work that way. Yes, I know Kreia rationalises that Revan never fell, because his fall was a sacrifice, a choice, more than anything, but for one thing, she is scarcely an impartial source as Revan's proud master, and if Revan did it all just to save the Republic and never fell in any way, then why did he use his fleet to attack the Republic? I would agree he still did it all to save the Republic from the true Sith, but the dark side of the force has a tendency to twist the goals of those it lures to it. In Revan's case it was by lure him to think that he could only save the Republic by defeating it and then building it into a stronger entity. In doing so it made him harm the very thing he started out trying to protect. Not sure all the above applies, though. Revan is a good swoop racer depending on how you play him in K1, and he is only a good technician if you build those skills too. He may been HK-47's creator, but I'm less certain he actually built the unit or had someone else built it for him. Somehow I can't picture Revan setting aside time to built a new droid from scratch while he is leading a war effort with the Republic's future hanging in the balance. I also don't think we know he's that great a lightsaber duelist. He killed Yusanis and Mandalore, sure, but they weren't jedi or sith and do not wield the force like Revan did. As for finding the Starforge and learning of the true Sith, the latter definitely was due to him going to the Trayus Academy on Malachor V, and maybe the former is too. By going there, Revan gained access to ancient lore long forgotten even by the sith. An unfair advantage, perhaps, but then it cost him enough, since that is where he fell to the dark side. Regardless, I don't see this makes him smarter than everybody else. If we know anything, then it is that Revan must be charismatic to be able to entice so many jedi to his cause that he split the order in defiance of the council, and that he must be a good strategist because he is so admired as such by the Mandalorians. And I'll grant him some elements of wisdom too, since he was insightful enough to resist using the Starforge without limitation and so become a slave to it. But otherwise I don't see Revan as that incredible. Lots of people have a take on Revan that to me seems vastly exaggerated to the point of Revan being a virtually invincible, unstoppable, omniscient, omnipotent force god. Given that these people all play Revan in first game, that smells unhealthily like a bad case of Narcissus to me Don't get me wrong. I like Revan, and I enjoyed playing him. I think he is an excellent strategist and charismatic leader, who is probably also one of the powerful force-users of his era. But that's as far as it goes for me. How many other times were he attacked that we know of?

Rehashed stories won't continue to sell games. The plot with the amnesiac who must discover a dark past is old to say the least. I'll accept it for Bourne Identity, because - hey - that's what the Bourne Identity is, but in other instances it's very old hat. Note: There is no SecureRom issue anymore, is there? I thought Bioware dropped that idea after exceedingly negative feedback. Unstable? I haven't played NWN2, but in TSL's case I'll chalk up to LA pushing the deadline and publishing a game that is unfinished in my book. I'd call it stable. It crashes and has bugs at points, yes, but then again, what game doesn't? Indeed, that Obsidian was able to finish TSL and make it workable in about a year is a marvel of an achievement. As for the graphics, I honestly don't care that much. Nicer graphics would be, well, nice, but it's not that important to me. Besides, since LA will always be the publisher of a Star Wars game, they could just cash out for a nice graphics engine, if it's really that important. I disagree. TSL left a big plot hanging. It was deliberate and would have worked, were it not for all the cut content, but still... we need closure to that. Exploring consequences of choices would be good, though. The best option there is probably Revan's fall, since it took place before the first game outside the player's control and so is a fact regardless of choices. If the plot takes us on a guided tour of how Revan's choices are the reason for the Republic's seemingly inevitable demise at the hands of the True Sith and why, for example, that would be pretty good, if you ask me.

I suppose the point is that redemption is a lasting dedication - Revan must strive for the rest of his life to repay for his evil deeds, as the debt can never be fully repaid. It is his dedication to this goal and accepting a life of servitude to the greater good that washes him of his sins. But he never reaches a point at which he has done enough and is let "off the hook". At least, that's what I see in his redemption.

The link I pointed to has been mentioned several times in these threads, and not by me the first time around. I repost it because this persistent KotOR MMO rumor keeps turning up even though LA has denied it. One word of clarification, though. We don't know what LA and Bioware are working on, not even whether it's an MMO or not. All we know is that it's not related to KotOR. That it's Star Wars and an MMO is my own speculation. It may not be either. I sincerely doubt it's a new, original intellectual property, as I don't see why would LA be involved if it were, but for all we know so far it could be, remote though that possibility may seem. But even if it's a franchise owned by LA, it need not be Star Wars.... It could be Indiana Jones. Or Willow. Or Howard the Duck. Or Zak McKracken. Or Monkey Island. Or Grim Fandango. Or... you get the picture.

Then why did he use his fleet created with the Starforge to wage war on the Republic instead of using it against the true Sith? Your interpretation of Revan is not invalid, but that's just the point - it's an interpretation. And Revan is a hero or a villain depending on how the player chooses look at him and consequently play him... or her.

Sony's contract is up next year. If LA doesn't want to continue it, then that's it. They own Star Wars and can do what they like with it, as long as it doesn't violate contracts they've signed. If LA don't want to extend the contract with Sony, then I don't see that there is really anything but timing to prevent them from saying so and what will happen next instead. And note that while LA has said the project with Bioware has nothing to do with KotOR, they have not said it has nothing to do with Star Wars... And incidentally, the Star Wars live-action tv-series is also set to premiere next year Bioware is not working on a KotOR MMO, according to LA. My suspicion is that the LA-Bioware collaboration is actually a Star Wars MMO set between Episodes III and IV to cash in on the live action tv series. KotOR is a fairly small franchise within the franchise. It has a dedicated fanbase, but not a particularly numerous one. LA has a habit of not releasing "competing" products, so I doubt they'd launch two Star Wars-based MMOs. If they align the new MMO with the live-action tv show, they can probably cash in a lot more than they could with a KotOR MMO, which will get a mixed reception from the KotOR fanbase at best.

Agreed! Why would they even go there? Maybe, what with everyone being fired and all, they'll have to start from scratch. Again. This is the same source that we heard the other day which attributed a KotOR MMO to a collaboration between LA and Bioware. Hence I don't believe it, since LA has already denied that. Yes, they are working on something with Bioware, but it has nothing to do with KotOR. http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/852/852342p1.html

The articles are old, yes. But unfortunately it doesn't change anything. A big part of the problem lies with the writers' strike, because the episodes we're seeing now are those they shot before it struck in november, at which point a portion of the crew was laid off or suspended, and there was fear the last episodes would never be shot and show would never be finished. Under that threat, I'm relieved the show will at the very least be finished, even if I have have to wait half a year for that to happen, though that - of course - still sucks... See Ron Moore's blog entry in november for info on this: http://www.rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries...tica_wraps.html

Sounds about right Alas, so it would seem... http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33862 Well, not a full year, just until febuary 2009, it would appear. Still seems like an awfully long time to me.

IIRC, the current fourth season is going to be last one with 22 episodes. However, they did not get to shoot them all before the writers' strike, and there was some concern they might not be able to finish them all. Not sure if that is settled. http://www.variety.com/article/VR111796608...mp;cs=1&p=0

If that's to be the goal, then I'd rather have them both killed by a pack of angry gizka just to prove that their alleged illustriousness means nothing when it comes to serving the plot... Or have them be captured and incapacitated by a bunch of pathetic, useless teddybears. Oh wait...

You must keep a scrap book with all the speeches in the game... Just Kidding. Thanks. I simply have the KotOR2 dialog.tlk file handy, since it has all dialogue in the game in it. And I've argued these passages many times now. Well, the council is blinded to the truth behind the exile's wound, because they don't want to acknowledge the consequence or, more to the point, their own ignorance or flawed choices of the past - to do so would redeem Kreia's teachings to a point and force them to admit their own flawed ways, and they are too arrogant to do that. However, there is a connection between Nihilus and the exile, and Kreia used the wounds the represented in the force to wage her war against its will.

The story of Revan's fall and the motives behind it something we don't know a lot about, probably because the developers wanted to the leave the reasons with the player. The only thing I've seen that sheds a bit of light upon it are the KotOR2 Chronicles, which are considered canon unless they contradict with other canon material, as I understand it. So does Revan turn to evil because he is twisted by Malachor V and has no other choice if he wants to live? Interestingly, it is the same choice he forces upon the jedi during the Battle of Malachor V later. But of course, it can also be interpreted that while Revan had to give up his morality and benevolence (assuming he had any), he was able to hold onto goals like protecting the republic from the Mandalorians and the true Sith. Regardless, the passage does seem to me to cast doubt on just how "voluntary" Revan's fall was. Maybe the KotOR comic book will shed more light on this, though I doubt it. Luke did indeed turn to the DS. It took Leia throwing her own life (and that of her unborn child) on the line, before Luke could reach a point where he could break away. Getting close to the emperor's clones was the intent behind his apparent choice to fall to the DS, certainly, but - like Ulic - he could not pretend to wield the DS without being affected by it, and it took Leia risking everything to bring him back to the LS.

What? There wouldn't be KotOR4 threads?

I laughed so hard at that bit - Moore really is messing with us And of course, we're now left wondering whether D'Anna was overstating her point by suggesting something that is not true or something that is Lots of good points this time. It finally reached the climax that has been evolving for a number of episodes with nice eye-candy for those who want the big space battles. That should quell the crowd wanting "bang for their bucks" for a while. Of course, the episode was told un-chronologically compared to the last episode, but I actually expected that since it worked dramatically that Galactica could find only the aftermath of the battle in the last episode. The timetable does seem to suggest a bit of a plothole, though - last episode was all about what the fleet did when Roslin and the cylons were missing. Galactica jumped to the hub and saw the aftermath, then jumped back, had some plots evolving, then left Adama behind. In this episode we're told that after the battle the basestar jumps straight to the fleet as fast as possible and finds Adama. But that doesn't seem to add up... We know the cylons have better jump-capability, so how can Galactica jump to the battlesite AFTER the basestar has left, jump back, have lots of stuff going on, leave with the fleet, and only after all that does the basestar find its way to where the fleet was? I would have expected the basestar spending time repairing the jump system or hiding from pursuing basestars or some such, but nope, none of that... Smells like plothole to me. Maybe I missed something... There was more here than the predictable battle, though. I was noteworthy seeing that the basestar jumped away not because the hybrid was in shock, but because she realised Natalie's death. That the cylons did not turn on the humans in anger undermines both Roslin's attempts to justify humanity's survival, given that she immediately plots against the cylons by preventing them access to D'Anna. Baltar's confession was also surprising. Naturally it had to come out sooner or later, but I like how he confession was used to illustrate how cold-hearted and cynical Roslin has become, even to the point of her realising it herself and giving her pause. I suspect we'll see a relationship between Adama and Roslin now, since they've both cast off their duties as leaders and are now free to admit to their feelings. Indeed, Adama already did, when he told Apollo he would stay behind because he couldn't live without Roslin. I guess all of the "love somebody" talk suggests the same for Roslin in that she will finally let someone into her heart. Fine by me, as long as it doesn't get too mushy.

Assuming that is the case, why do the masters insist on cutting the exile off from the force, regardless of whether he follows the light or dark side? In fact, they argue quite the contrary. The following is spoken to the LS exile. "In you, we saw the end of the Force. Yes... you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. You are a cipher, forming bonds, leeching the life of others, siphoning their will and dominating them. It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.Within you, we see something worse than merely the teachings of the Sith. What you carry may mean the death of the Force... and the death of the Jedi. So you think. It is not the strength of a Jedi you feel. He's right. It's... all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds - only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?But what's worse, is that bonding you have - it hasn't gone away. It's gotten stronger, and the more attachments you form, the more you draw others to you.And that is why you are a threat to us all.What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill? For you, Malachor was that crucible. What's worse, is these Sith that we face... I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near. Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you. And so you have brought about the end of the Jedi, and perhaps all the knowledge of the Force."