Jediphile

You're not. I'd like the jedi code to finally mean something, though. The jedi code dictates no relationships, yet we have them in each and every game. And although we could argue that TSL doesn't to some extent, since they never lead to anything and Kreia tells us in the end that we must leave such things behind, it still doesn't make it a choice. I like it if you KotOR3 could give you the option not to seek romance and have that have plot impact. Because so far it hasn't. Every time somebody makes that point, people moan with "oh, but you don't have to pursue the romance options in the KotOR games - it's your choice". Yes, it is, but it's a choice between whether I want to play that part of the game or not, and if I choose not to, my only reward is that there are parts of the game I don't get to see - players who defy the jedi code and choose romance face no detrimental effects as a consequence of that choice, which begs the question of why the code dictates this in the first place. When are we finally going to see why this is in the jedi code? I can see the potential problems for it, but as much as the jedi preaches having no relationships, the plots always, always prove the opposite - in K1 romancing Bastila makes it easier to turn her back to the light side in the end, and in TSL Atris falls to the dark side not because she loves the exile but because she denies those feelings for him. Let's see the other side of that, for crying out loud! Because the jedi are correct that romance can lead to disaster. The Star Wars plots just never support that position...

Male and male. I've played female in both games, but the male versions make for better plot IMHO. Somehow Revan dropping his guard, giving Bastila the option to kill, just to prove that he trusts in her and their love for each other is more poignant than "remember the Jedi Code, Bastila". In TSL, I think the female version of events suffers. Atris' fall is has less impact, because it's harder to see why she respected the female so much, while she was in love with the male exile, and that love was perverted over the years. It also makes for a better dramatic triangle once Handmaiden gets involved. Instead of Atris, female exile gets Sion as a "lost love interest", which is completely out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever, and so bad storytelling IMHO. Mical has good points to make (in his own sanctimonious ways), but overall I think Handmaiden adds more to the story plotwise.

Funny that you would ask for proof, when you provided none yourself. The point of my original post was that neither side can prove their claims. "The thing about "they wouldn't have bought it anyway" is that it's just as valid an argument as "every pirated copy is a lost sale", because there is no way to prove it either way. I suspect the truth is in the middle." The legal principle is that the one making the accusation carries the burden of proof, and in these cases, it's the gaming companies that accuse the piracy of dwindling sales. However, I can no longer take that claim seriously. The music industry claim that piracy kill their business. The movie industry claim that piracy kill their business. But guess what? The music, movie AND gaming industries all STILL produce material, and they all STILL make money. I especially don't believe the claims of piracy killing the gaming business, because piracy has been part of the gaming industry since its very birth - it's always been there, right back to the days when games were written by lone programmers sitting in their parents' basements. And games STILL evolved into an industry that now makes more money than the movie industry, according to some sources. It just doesn't add up that piracy is quite THAT lethal to gaming. If it were, the business would have gone under by now, rather than actually making more money than ever and developing into the mammoth industry it is today. Now, that's not to support piracy. I don't. I'm just saying that there will always be piracy to some extent, but that the business can survive even so. No amount of copy protection or registration is going to make it go away. None. Companies have been trying to create a fool-proof method for decades now, and the pirates always find a way around it, and I suspect they always will. A shame, because it means some people don't support the industry with money. But I doubt it'll kill the industry.

I can see it now... "Who will save the free world from the extremism of the Middle East?" Nana-nanana-nanana-nananana - BATMAN! http://youtube.com/watch?v=IQBobrCBTNI

You actually do find out if you get influence to 100 with him and then ask him where he came from. No, it's not all said outright, and is actually said by the exile's comments on his bleeping rather than T3 himself, but if you combine the bits and pieces in the game and interpret them, you can figure it all out... to a point, at least.

For no particular reason?? You killed her family! You destroyed her clan! Nonsense. The exile and her family fought on opposing sides in the Mandalorian Wars, but to go from there to saying the exile personally killed her family is a pretty big stretch. Besides, if a family/clan doesn't want to fight in a war, then simply don't fight in one, particularly one which your side started and pushed. Otherwise it's like saying I should seek blood vengeance because you killed my brother when he forced his way into your home and tried to kill you and your family at gunpoint. Which makes her non-aggressive, but calling a self-proclaimed bounty hunter specialized in the use of mines non-violent seems odd to me. So she's not blind... She sure didn't have much tact, though. And she's not the only one. Kreia comments on relationships too, and in their own way, her comments are far more amusing than Mira's, which are usually just tactless or embarrassing or both. Not really. I have no problem that she turned the male exile down. After all, the female exile can't romance Bao-Dur either. It was the constant "ooh, you're my bounty" comments that made me wanted to force a lightsaber down her throat repeatedly... and I play LS. At least the game could have let me tell her to stop doing that, but oh no - "because Mira's so perky and got so much spunk - hahaha!"

Yes, Mandalore is tough. He is nasty in both the good and the bad sense. However, for me the bad heavily outweighs the coolness factor, since it disgusts me how he takes pride in attacking the innocent and helpless of the Republic. That's the infantile boy who torments his baby sister and makes her cry because he doesn't feel he gets enough attention from his mother. That's how I see the Mandalorians. I can appreciate their skill in war, but their attitude is immoral, inexcusable and infantile.

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As KotOR3? No. As a KotOR CRPG? No. As a Star Wars computer game. Sure. The thing is, prequels are notoriously difficult, because nothing can happen that might possibly contradict the established chain of events in the material already written and set chronologically later. This is a problem for both books and films, and I think it's worse for a CPRG, because the backgrounds tend to be more expansive on account of the games being interactive and the plot dictated by the choices of the player. That will make it very difficult to write a CRPG plot with real player choices that won't conflict with what is in KotOR, TSL or even the KotOR comic books. I mean, if you set it during the Mandalorian Wars, there is no way around Revan and Exile, because they are pivotal characters of that conflict. What then do they look like? What genders are they? What are their motives? Well, you have to avoid all that like the plague because those details are chosen by the player in KotOR and TSL. That puts a huge strain on what sort of plot you can tell. It can work in other genres, though. RTS or FPS games (like Battlefront in the latter case) might be okay. But otherwise no. I used to think I'd like a game like that, but since the KotOR comic is now busy chronicling the Mandalorian Wars, I like the idea less. Too many cooks and all that... Besides, KotOR3 needs to deal with the True Sith after TSL. I mean, we were left with a cliffhanger... We need that story finished, or it would be like doing "Empire Strikes Back" without doing "Return of the Jedi" next.

Yeah... with lightsaber nightsticks...

Both Wookieepedia and IMDb still lists it to be expected in 2009. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_l...ction_TV_series http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458291/ Besides, even if it is postponed, it makes little difference to the argument - games are notorious for being delayed too, TSL being a notable exception in that it was released two months before originally planned...

Wow. Definitely showing... LA's target demographics

AFAIK, Sony's license for a Star Wars MMORPG is set to run out in 2009, which incidentally just happens to be the year the tv show begins. So my suspicion would be that Galaxies will be discontinued and shut down to make way for a new MMORPG set in the time between episodes III and IV just like the tv show will be. But we'll have to wait and see, I guess. Not that I'll play either anyway...

Hmmm, let's see... Kiph was a slicer in TSL Bib Fortuna was Jabba's majordomo in ROTJ Mission Vao was a street urchin in K1 Yuthura Ban was a jedi-turned-sith (and possibly turned jedi right back again) in K1 Guun San Haresh was a jedi in the Great Hunt referenced in K1 Tott Doneeta was a jedi during the Sith War some forty years before K1 Zhar Lestin wa a jedi master who trained Revan in K1 and previously according to TSL Those would seem to me to those best known to KotOR players...

Not sure there are that few jedi left. Order 66 mostly just did away with the council and the top jedi, but there could still be any number out there. Somehow it would be cool if people get to play jedi only to hunted down and killed by the Empire - serves the little munchkin-fanboys right Bioware: "Certainly you can play a jedi in the new MMORPG." Fanboy: "Oh that is, like, so cool. I'll make TEH MOST POWAFUL JEDI EVA! HE'LL ROXXORS!" (Don't ask - I don't even know what that means...) Bioware: "Sure. Just choose 'jedi' here and go min/max your stats..." [continues while slipping knife in player's back]. That would be cool. It'd be worth it just to watch all the little munchkin wanna-be jedi players get wiped out over servers worldwide for their immature little fanboy jedi wet dreams. Sure, they'll be upset, but then they are anyway. Maybe that's why LA and Bioware made a separate website for this More like dozens of dozens of times... if not dozens of dozens of dozens of times. I know I've said it often enough

Hmm, Summoner. I liked that for some reason. Total rip-off, but I liked the atmosphere and the plot twist. As for replaying games, I recently played a remake of Millennium 2.2. How's that for replaying old games? I mean, it's close to two decades old now or something?

That's it... I feel like a stoning... "Say... Are there any women here today?" Hey Pidesco, you might as well shout "Jehova" now

Kreia and Handmaiden of the choices offered. My favorite character is a contest between Kreia and Visas with T3 a clear third. I like Visas, but mostly it's because she is so mysterious, and frankly, once you've talked to her thoroughly, and usually in one long conversation, she has nothing to say afterwards. Since I don't want to be accused of liking women to be silent, I'll have to rank Kreia higher just for that reason alone Besides, Kreia is just about the best written character in any computer game ever. She has some of the best one-liners, even compared to movies and tv shows, and she is complex and insidious too. Yes, she's also a manipulative, evil old hag as well, but she sure isn't your usually cheesy villain lilke Malak. Kreia has a cause, and in her own demented way, she is the heroine of her own philosophies, since she is willing to sacrifice herself to her ideals. T3 is a powerhouse in TSL, but he's also more of a character. In K1 he was just bleeding trash compactor bleebing his way through various access codes and nothing more. In TSL he is the secret mover and shaker of things, who manipulates the circumstances and stages events as Revan would want them to be, at least to the extent that T3 interprets it. It's nice to see a droid that can have a heart of gold and remain the secret power behind the throne at the same time. Oh, and he gets to zap HK-47 Next I would probably choose Bao-Dur, HK-47 (who IS funny, even if the humor is dark), Handmaiden, Atton, Disciple, G0T0 (nasty, but voice-acted so well), Mira, Hanharr and finally Mandalore, who may be hard as nails, but whose utter disregard for life and shameless pride at how he and his people killed the innocent makes me cringe... If only I could have made him see why he and his people are pigs, it might not have been so bad, but the option to do so is not there, which sucks. Of the optional characters, I like Handmaiden better than the others. I don't hate the Disciple, but next to the Atris-Exile-Handmaiden triangle drama, his plot impact just plain sucks IMHO, and his long rants of morality and ethics can be really annoying too. Mira's attitude is even worse at times, though. She's supposed to play this tough young woman character, but shows way too much cleavage to take serious in that regard. At least Handmaiden does it because she likes the exile. In Handmaiden's case, I could at least care about her issues. Mira just bit my head off for no particular reason, at which point I stopped caring what her problem was. Perky kid? Try overconfident and self-important... Her constant bragging about me being "her bounty" was not "fun", just annoying... Hanharr is better written, but he's a pig with few redeeming features. Yes, I get why he ended up as he did - his background is interesting, but it does not make me want to be anywhere near him. As interesting as his reasons for killing his tribe are, it still leaves him as a crazed murderer.

That's what I thought, which is why I shamelessly stole it... http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/index.html

His guardian angel Or God. Or a manifestation of a part of himself that he suppresses. A hallucination created by his own sick mind or by drugs. 42. A ghost or spirit. Personally, I'd go with a manifestation of his mind or a hallucination, but who knows. Point is, the last cylon could be anyone. But since it would undermine all of Baltar's betrayals if he turns out to be a cylon, I tend to doubt he's the last cylon. I mean, if Baltar is a cylon, then he really didn't betray his own people, did he? Therefore it cheapens his actions, and would not be good writing IMHO. Baltar has to be human for that reason alone. Besides, Baltar is pathetic, self-centered, cowardly, selfish, egotistical, narcissistic and self-absorbed, all of which makes him the most human character on the show. I have this pet theory that lots of people don't want him to be human for that reason - because if he's a cylon, then all these unsavory characteristics can be written off as being cylon. And we don't like those aspects of humanity, do we? So let's write them off to cylon-land. If Ron Moore does that, it will be cheap. But I doubt that he will. He's too good a writer, and if he can highlight this point when he confirms Baltar as human, then he's a bloody genius. One pet theory of my own, though. Going back all the way to the mini-series, do people recall that a message was left in Adama's quarters saying there twelve cylon models? Now, who wrote that message? And why? Why didn't this person just come forward and spill the beans? My theory is that it was Baltar. He knew there were twelve models, because Six told him so just before the bombs went off on Caprica. And being on the run with the fleet, he wanted to warn Adama, yet couldn't come out and say it, because it would draw questions to his source, which he couldn't get into without also revealing his own treason as far as the part he played in compromising the defenses of Caprica. I suspect that will be revealed at one point, when they really do want to kill Baltar. I suspected it would come up at the trial in Baltar's defense, but then again maybe it didn't exactly because it would again draw attention to his treason on Caprica, which he couldn't afford at the time. But... just a theory.

As stated by Darth Windu, no, they aren't the same. The HK droid factory is on Telos. Ever noticed that lone HK-50 unit in the military base, where you find the shuttle that will take you to Atris? You can fix it, but not talk to it, and it explodes without explanation about five seconds later. Right behind it is a door to a sublevel that you cannot open. That's the entrance to the droid factory, but it is for HK units only, and since you don't have HK-47 in the group yet at that point in the game, you can't enter. It was supposed to be a solo-mission for HK-47 later in the game while the Exile and co. are taking down Nihilus and his forces. When TSLRP is done, it will be. The droid planet, M4-78, is totally different. Not a lot of work was done for it, and much of what was got moved to other parts of the game. As I understand it, Team Gizka decided to restore only what they could discern Obsidian intended to be in the game, and since M4-78 was very unfinished, they decided not to "restore" it, as that would mean filling the blanks that Obsidian never finished planning themselves. Not to worry, though. Dstoney has said he is dedicated to make his M4-78 mod compatible with TSLRP if there are any conflict issues, so you should get to play them both eventually.

haha, HK and Mical.... I can picture it now... Yeah... I can see how that would go down. HK-47: "Query: Is there someone you want killed, master?" Exile: "Will you stop saying that! I don't want you to kill anyone. I want nobody assassinated. I'm a jedi, not a sith!" Disciple: "I'm relieved to hear you say so, even after the Order cast you out. Not that you were alone. Many Jedi defied the Order during the Mandalorian Wars - and it paved the way for the Jedi Civil War.There is no blame - all must accept. But at its core, one must wonder if it was the failure of the Jedi teachings... or the teachers themselves. Many of the Jedi Council trained Exar Kun, Ulic... Revan and Malak. How could they not see the danger they posed? And if they could not......perhaps there was some essential part of their teachings that was flawed." HK-47: "Restatement: Are you sure there aren't any meatbags, you'd like me to kill for you, master?" Exile: "Don't give me any ideas... Besides, tempting me with the dark side is what I brought Kreia with us for."

Actually, I would once more concur with Scorchy...

Lots of people tend to doubt those, especially in Kreia's case. However, those ages are from the primary source himself, Chris Avellone, on this very forum no less. http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?s=...st&p=184142 And he casts doubt only on Kreia's age. However, since there is nothing to disprove her being 50 years of age, I'll believe Avellone and chalk up any indication of her possibly being older as confirmation of Atton's "hard living" comment.

http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/KOTOR%202/Up...2021/index.html See, even Scorchy sensed Mical's creepiness, he calls him a "sycophant", and he wasn't even a female Exile. For some reason people really hate Mical. I suppose it's because he fills the role of the mandatory Star Wars "preachy little goody-goody two shoes" character in TSL, and he is disliked more than most of those characters because he's so young, gullible and yet spouts jedi principles all over the place even as he stares moony-eyed at the female exile, making him seem highly hipocritical. I don't really dislike him as much as most people seem to, though. He can be annoying, but he's fairly harmless, and though his preaching can be trying, his points are usually quite appropriate, even the come across in a less than fortunate manner, mostly owing to his inexperience. And obviously he serves as a conscience to the exile, which doesn't go over well with most people. Not that I blame them - none of us like being moralized to, and Mical is close to doing that and stating the obvious at times, too, which probably makes him a candidate for someone the player might want to point out when approaching HK-47...