DigitalCrack

Paladins need the same thing priests need. A clear and distinct change of feel between Orders(deity's for priest). I know they already have some talents that change the functions, slightly, of existing paladin abilities based on your order. They should be way more distinct than that. Each order could not only have variations of the base paladin abilities, but order exclusive active and modal abilities as well. Like bleak walkers could have an aura that steals endurance from enemies and and gives it to friendlies affected by the aura. Kind wayfarers could get an active, per encounter, ability that grants them freedom of movement and immunity to disengagement for a certain amount of time during combat you could call it "wanderer's spirit". In a completely different vein of thinking it could be cool to give paladins active abilities that are only usable when specific auras are active. Like with zealous focus you could have an ability called "true strike" that hits every enemy with range of the aura without the possibility of missing but also without the possibility of hits being critical. Just trying to give an example, not necessarily a realistic/balanced one, but something to help translate the idea of what I am saying.

First time I played a cipher was in this build and I thought the class was fantastic. It was really fun and way more dynamic than I thought.

This ^ combined with more distinct status effect visuals would prob do the trick on making the status of characters and enemies more obvious and easier to understand at a glance.

@Seari See this is a nice detailed response as opposed to "facepalm". I disagree BG would have had similar effects if they had the same tools available and honestly they add to the fun and immersion instead of a spell being cast resulting in a few twinkles and no visual effect to the character hit by said spell... thats kind of lame. Not trying to convince you since I am sure its an agree to disagree scenario. Bottom line is the tools exist now to make it both visually appealing and functional so really it would be folly to ignore the visual simply because they didn't do it back in the day. Its one of the benefits of doing a modern throwback is that you can add some "flare" to the vfx that wasn't an option at the time.

/facepalmWhat? Functionality isn't the end all for everyone. Or do you think the BG series was over the top with animations? Because facepalm gives no details by itself. If you thinks its absurd or ridiculous at least say why.

Yeah more talents is what I was talking about. It is too late prob to add a bunch of new spells for each deity. Talents though should be easy enough with the development time they have left.

Why would it be too late to add? I don't really know how long these things take to implement but it seems like they could bust out enough before release in early spring

Something that would be cool (and has nothing to do with compare PoE to BG concerning wizards) is utilizing the grimoire a lot more for the utility and vatiety that is "missing" in the spell selection. So as opposed to adding spells add more grimoire centric abilities that make up for the lack of variety in spells.

Ha you are right, and I know I am minority on thinking that way. There are some cases where the "feel" is more important to me than how functional it is mechanically. However I would agree that there are at least a handful of effects that are too much.

Maybe each deity offers their own set of abilities/talents on the "dead" levels to pick from like the rouge or fighter.

This is one aspect that I felt IE games were a little lackluster with. So I am kinda glad with Pillars being a little over the top.

Deity specific spells would be the thing that takes the priest to a chanter level of interesting. Honestly if both the paladin's orders and priest's deities were distinct and unique from each as far as what they added to the class, it would make them feel a lot less generic. Maybe there are plans to do this that we simply haven't seen. Right now what you have are these interesting history and back-stories to pick from and then the character immersion they create is broken and the mystique gone once you realize your the same as any other priest or paladin sub choice. Sure maybe there are some dialogue choice specific to what you choose, but how your character plays and the talents and abilities available should reflect the ideology you chose for your character too.

They should have done that from the start considering no other class was forced into such a rigid role.

Something that would be fun for rangers to have that others classes don't really have (outside a few spells) are abilities that can be used to buff/prep before being in combat. going along with the ranger being a scout of sorts it would make sense that a completely different set of pre-battle buff abilities could be given to them. As a representation of their constant preparedness and heightened awareness of their surroundings, plus they would be the only class designed to be able to buff outside of combat. Anyway, Just a thought I had to spice up the ranger. On the topic of light weapons, I created a paladin that dual wields daggers and he seems to deal death quite well.

If you want to build a ranger as an archer or medieval woodsman the pet is somewhat unrealistic. And if you want to make a purely ranged bowman, the shared health means that the pet can be a major liability by putting your health in melee range. Wish they would have tried something more unique than just a pet. Hopefully they do something else to make it more interesting. I do agree with the others who said it was disappointing that the ranger is pigeon holed as a class. As far as I remember they did try to not have pets but there was a cacophony of complaints from the forums. The pets fine Just wish there was something else with it that seperated it from ranger/hunter characters in other games that shoot bows and have pets. I guess I kind of felt like the ranger should be swiss army knife type class. Overall they are portrayed in many fantasy settings as being resourceful in any situation which is what gives them the edge. Like they are the "Macgyver" of the fantasy world and should have abilities that reflect that resourcefulness.

Wish they would have tried something more unique than just a pet. Hopefully they do something else to make it more interesting. I do agree with the others who said it was disappointing that the ranger is pigeon holed as a class. The health sharing is pretty unique actually. Also, how can the Ranger be pigeon holed if, by BB players's comment in this very thread, sword&board ranger and pet is effective and fun to play? A ranged pet wielding warrior is hardly unique as a concept and adding a shared health pool doesn't magically make it unique. Sword and board obviously wasn't intended based on obsidians description. Players made that uniqueness happen.

Wish they would have tried something more unique than just a pet. Hopefully they do something else to make it more interesting. I do agree with the others who said it was disappointing that the ranger is pigeon holed as a class.

If part of what defines a ranger is the ability to survive and blend into any environment, then why not try to translate that into something that can be utilized in a combat sense. Like a set of skills that the effects they cause and the way they function change based on the environment. Like they would have a "snare" ability but how it works or what it does is determined by whether you are in a desert, forest, city, etc... Basically a way to translate the rangers ability to use his knowledge of his immediate surroundings to full effect in combat situations. He could still have a pet as well to further set him apart.

Definately xp and how its implemented should be a sidenote much less a heated argument. Really enjoyment is decided by the gameplay and story. If niether of those are enjoyable on there own for you then changing the xp system won't magically change that.

Honestly the stubbornness surrounding this issue is like "green eggs and ham" style. I do not like quest only xp here or there I will not like it anywhere! People need to chill out and try it once the beta is actually playable to a degree (hopefully today's patch makes it so). As it stands it doesn't work through no fault of the idea but as a result of bugs.

Yup people have been conditioned from the multitude of games that give xp for kills (not just rpg's) that its assumed as being the best/most enjoyable way of doing things. Its funny cause it really shouldn't make a difference to enjoyment level of combat, if the combat/gameplay is good then its fun regardless of how you earn xp. Honestly the small number of people who purposely skip quests to roam around how they please are the only ones affected by this, which we are all working under the assumption that they don't have a contingency for players who want to play that way (or that someone wont immediately make a mod for it). Its just too soon to be arguing with black and white mentalities when so much of this is grey and personal opinion.

A high Con, high Res Chanter with a sabre mainhand and pistol offhand and mostly status affecting chanter abilities (stun, fear, etc..). Fighter tanks Chanter Flanks. Priest mostly I used glyphs with and the occasional stamina buff/heal. The wizard I gave a rifle and brigandine armor and used his spells in more of a "turn the tide" fashion. If I could do without wizard spells then I didn't use them however if I miscalculated an encounter I had the spells as a contingency of sorts. the rouge I primarily used to pick off weaker/weakened enemies.

Well that is what xp is essentially in any game whether quest or kill. Especially when you think of kill xp, random xp triggers waiting for you to come trigger them. That is what we all want really ;-) we just don't know we want it.

So... alternate suggestions to kill xp anyone? Even if these ideas have been in another thread (as an off topic suggestion) this is dedicated to finding alternate solutions not continuing an argument that no one will win. Currently the status is that there won't be any kill xp and probably never will be. Knowing this the suggestion for discovery xp would be cool especially if tie in a lot of random world history to the discoveries (as an optional read like books but more interesting). Or possibly set up a jobs kind of system that earns you xp, for example: tie them in with backgrounds at character creation, choosing a scholar would give you xp for discovering creatures like a zoologist keeping a log of rare beasts encountered. An explorer would get xp for finding ruins and such. It would be hard to balance but would add an interesting layer to obtaining xp outside of quests without having to interact with NPC's.

Its was pretty effective. I actually thought it was part of the game since the first thing I did upon finding a pistol was pair it with a sabre. What happens is you fire then attack with your melee for rest of round then it takes a round to reload where you do nothing and it repeats that pattern. I had a high resolve build which seemed to prevent most interruption during reload (since I was in melee). Overall it worked great which is why I figured it was meant to be apart of the game haha.