Armour and weapon designs - a plea.

[obyknven]

 

Actually, the idea here is not realistic per se, as outlined in a few posts. The idea is that the designs can be practical and believable, while still retaining an appealing look.

 

 

Many histoical armor have impractical design. For example this

 

 

Weigtn 60 kg

[TrashMan]

 

 

Can't we all just look like the God-Emperor of Mankind and be happy?

 

I'm pretty sure that's a midget with joysticks driving some sort of robot. In other words, an armor suite mecha.

 

That would be a correct observation if the Big E was a normal human. But he's not. He doesn't have a humans phisyonomy to begin with (the dude weighs half a ton without power armor!)

[TrashMan]

Realistic armor and weapon can be only in Historical setting. It's impossible in fantasy setting with magic, weird cultures and races. You just can't take into account all of the factors.

 

Replace "realistic" with "believable". People want believable armor - it doesnt' have to be an historicly accurate replica.

 

However, any armor - even in the fantasy setting - has to follow the basic rules of common sense.

Armor was made to protect and not hinder.

Form follows function.

While there have been experiments in armor during human history, unsucesfull designs didn't "propagate".

 

You cannot abandon such basic logic, not even with "it's magic" handwave. It immediately kills the world as it assasinates the very core of rational human behavior.

 

 

If I want to make a soup, I boil some water over a fire and throw ingredients in.

I don't throw ingredients into the fire and then pour water over it. Saying "it's magic" or "it's fantasy" doesn't make it any less redicolous.

[Baudolino05]

 

 

Armor changed, evolved and improved over history of humanity and there are a few factors that had a tremendous impact on this evolution.

 

• The development of different types, and more effective weapons: Weapons such as swords, spears, daggers and polearms all changed over the centuries, in part to achieve effectiveness against armor. The longbow and crossbow were very effective against varying armor types and new armor had to be developed to counter these weapons. This changing and evolving between weapons and armor were what could be called an arms race – weapons would improve then armor would improve then weapons had to improve and so on.

 

• Developments in metal working skills – as we moved out of the bronze age and into the iron age the new ways of working with metals made stronger armor and gave armies technologies to make more effective armor.

 

• Changing philosophies and cultures – these things also had a big impact on how armor changed.

 

• Tactics and warfare paradigm change

 

• Social formations changing

 

• Fashion change

 

 

• Theater of war ( landshaft, climate etc)

 

• Gunpowder eventually put an end to armor

 

Realistic armor and weapon can be only in Historical setting. It's impossible in fantasy setting with magic, weird cultures and races. You just can't take into account all of the factors.

 

 

P.S. Your eclectic mix from Early Medieval armor and Renaissance weapons make me lol.

 

Great history lesson. Unfortunately:

 

- You didn't write anything we already wrote several times. Here's some snips from previous pages:

 

As I've mentioned before, the LotR movies, I reckon, had a nice balance between realism & practicality and fantasy look.

 

To me they did a great job designing single sets of armors, but they made a mistake putting togheter armors of different periods (a mistake Tolkien didn't make).

 

Why does Middle Earth have to correspond exactly to our tech progression? Saruman and Sauron both had crude machinery even in the books.

 

Though I know in the original version of Middle Earth that all the humans had roughly comparable tech.

 

The fact is that technology changes the way warfare works...A cavalry charge was less effective in XVI century in the XI century, for instance. So, you can't put thogeter William the Conqueror's knights (Rohirrim) and late middle-ages Swiss mercenaries (Uruk-Hai).

 

etc...

 

- We just showed to oversized pauldron's lovers some samples of good looking historical armors, from different periods and regions, perfectly aware they can't stay together in a consistent setting.

 

- Good fiction is about consistency. If you are not faithful to your narrative premise your are a bad writer. So Obsidian guys MUST answer to questions like: "how the diversity of races and the presence of magic effect warfare?"

.

- The only fictional world your magnificent dark elf armor could make sense in, is a world where armors aren't really about functionality but just about fashion, and the only way to look cool is to appear like the poor cousin of Saint Seiya. LoL

Edited September 24, 2012 by Baudolino05

[Shevek]

I have a book of Arms and Armor I have in storage somewhere. I'll try to dig it up later. Great pictures and drawings of arms and armor from across the globe with some interesting snippets of info as well.

[TrashMan]

- The only fictional world your magnificent dark elf armor could make sense in, is a world where armors aren't really about functionality but just about fashion, and the only way to look cool is to appear like the poor cousin of Saint Seiya. LoL

 

 

I dont' see waht's exactly wrong with the armor there

[Furiku]

I'd love it if they keep their promise about a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment that they stated on their KickStarter and I shall cite from the official vision document of said game:

 

*clears throat*

 

“I don‟t wear pants! Now, that’s entertainment.”

 

“babes,” as in, “TRUCKLOADS OF.”

 

Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. These babes will be present without nipple-age and will all regrettably behave within the TSR Code of Ethics.

 

and more babes

 

Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes.

 

[Shevek]

@Furiku:

 

I think its safe to say the amount of T&A suggested in the vision document and present in the game itself was at least partially influenced by the need of catering to a publisher. Thats not the case here, right?

Edited September 24, 2012 by Shevek

[Uwon de Toster]

Footsoldier from eastern parts of Europe

 

 

You know an idea just popped into my head looking at that guy's axe and then thinking of the people that complain about oversized weapons. Look at that axe and tell me that that thing would do anything to this:

 

 

 

Kinda doubt that a weapon made to fight against regular humans (though armored) will be any help against giant fantasy monsters. So yeah there is even a believable reason for giant weapons to exist in the fantasy genre.

 

It doesen't matter how big your weapon is. Consider yourself in a place of this dragon - if you can fly and in the same time burn everything to the ground with a fiery breath why for GODS SAKE would you melee with some human bastards!?

Any game that lets you fight ON GROUND with a dragon must be inherently stupid. Or that dragon is...I remeber Tower of Doom - thay made things in the right way:

 

 

[Baudolino05]

- The only fictional world your magnificent dark elf armor could make sense in, is a world where armors aren't really about functionality but just about fashion, and the only way to look cool is to appear like the poor cousin of Saint Seiya. LoL

 

 

I dont' see waht's exactly wrong with the armor there

 

 

 

 

Nothing, in a world where armor efficiency depends on an abstract concept of "power" and a Saint can do martial arts with a ton of gold on his body.

I used to like Saint Seiya, but I don't wanna see anything similar in PE....

Edited September 24, 2012 by Baudolino05

[Michał]

Actually, the idea here is not realistic per se, as outlined in a few posts. The idea is that the designs can be practical and believable, while still retaining an appealing look.

 

 

Many histoical armor have impractical design. For example this

 

 

Weigtn 60 kg

 

And was probably used by charioteer. So it WAS practical for a guy who didn't need to be mobile on his own feet.

[obyknven]

In my opinion best fantasy armor design from these artists.

http://www.waynereynolds.com/

 

http://www.olivierledroit.com/

 

 

http://diterlizzi.com/home/

[Gorth]

http://diterlizzi.com/home/

I believe a lot of PS:T's artwork was based on DiTerlizzi's work

[obyknven]

Actually, the idea here is not realistic per se, as outlined in a few posts. The idea is that the designs can be practical and believable, while still retaining an appealing look.

 

 

Many histoical armor have impractical design. For example this

 

 

Weigtn 60 kg

 

And was probably used by charioteer. So it WAS practical for a guy who didn't need to be mobile on his own feet.

 

This is just a guess. Actually we don't known how they use thus armor. In any case, massive shoulder pads were severely hamper movement.

[Michał]

Last one without spikes would be quite okay, but the rest? (IMO) Terrible - both in style and design.

[Tobi]

I totally agree with the OP.

[Uwon de Toster]

Realistic armor and weapon can be only in Historical setting. It's impossible in fantasy setting with magic, weird cultures and races. You just can't take into account all of the factors.

 

 

non sequitur. Also - so if we cannot be 100% sure sure what would evolution of warfare look like in a fantasy world we should abandon all hope for even bit of sense?

 

About your P.S.:

What people meant when they posted this "eclectic mix" was to show that there are many examples (from many different cultures) of real historical (so practical and functional) types of armour that were ornamented looked cool and still clearly made sense for people that actually had to fight for their lives. So yes - you can make cool looking fantasy armour taht still is believable. EDIT: I like what's being said that this thread isn't about making arms and armour historically accurate but BELIEVABLE. Its fantasy of course but it doesen't mean we should just turn our brains off.

 

 

P.S. I don't really see this kind of elfen weaponry in any setting taht isn't very VERY high-fantasy . Armour is comleteky useless and his sword hasn't got a proper crossguard so he would lose his fingers quicker than he could say Menzoberranzan. It was ridicoulous even for Forgotten Realms (<Greyhawk).

Edited September 24, 2012 by Uwon de Toster

[Pauzulodburzum]

Personally I like the more "natural size" weapons.. specially when at rpg.. the size of the weapon doesnt guarantee the damage dealt.. and a humongous sword in one hand and shield in the other looks a bit off to me

[Thulean]

God I hate Wayne Reynolds art. It was the beginning of the end for good art in D&D.

[-TK-]

Personally I like the more "natural size" weapons.. specially when at rpg.. the size of the weapon doesnt guarantee the damage dealt.. and a humongous sword in one hand and shield in the other looks a bit off to me

 

Yeah Sephiroth is lame.

[Gecimen]

I completely disagree with the OP. If we're adventuring in a fantasy world, let the armor and weapon designs reflect it.

 

If you want a historically accurate theme, you should play a historically accurate game.

[Uwon de Toster]

I completely disagree with the OP. If we're adventuring in a fantasy world, let the armor and weapon designs reflect it.

 

If you want a historically accurate theme, you should play a historically accurate game.

 

Again it's not about being historically accurate but BELIEVABLE.

[horocaust]

While I agree on the point of believable weapons, I think we need more half-naked people without the pretense of practicality. I'd like to see shirtless elves mesmerizing enemies with their toned physiques.

[obyknven]

P.S. I don't really see this kind of elfen weaponry in any setting taht isn't very VERY high-fantasy . Armour is comleteky useless and his sword hasn't got a proper crossguard so he would lose his fingers quicker than he could say Menzoberranzan. It was ridicoulous even for Forgotten Realms (<Greyhawk).

Oh You.

Mikean swords

 

 

 

Celt's sword

 

Saxon sword

 

Italian "Cinquedea" sword

[Uwon de Toster]

P.S. I don't really see this kind of elfen weaponry in any setting taht isn't very VERY high-fantasy . Armour is comleteky useless and his sword hasn't got a proper crossguard so he would lose his fingers quicker than he could say Menzoberranzan. It was ridicoulous even for Forgotten Realms (<Greyhawk).

Oh You.

 

Yes. me;]

 

Most of weapons you posted was used with shield and fighting style didn't require blade binds hence lack of bigger crossguard. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc

 

 

But this is MASSIVE off topic ;]

Edited September 24, 2012 by Uwon de Toster