Politics' Official Eighteenth Thread

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

The heck does abolishing age of consent have to do with transactions between voluntary parties? There are limitations, mainly the age 18 thing and theres parental consent. I don’t see where you’re going with the second sentence.

 

 

He was poking fun at internet libertarians. It's kind of a meme.

Indeed.

Edited May 24, 2018 by KaineParker

[smjjames]

What’s the vertical axis? Authoritarian-egalitarian?

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Okay, so, correct me if I'm getting any of this wrong...

 

Your problem is that the government has the power to create legislation that unduly favors those with the power and influence to buy their favor, which the disempowered workers can't do.

 

Your proposed solution is to negate the government's ability to do so.

 

This would presumably bring about a change, because then the workers would still be without power and influence, but the rich would be... deprived from one of the vectors to exert theirs, leaving all the rest? How is that supposed to help?

 

Because what the government does is enforced by guns. The most powerful and wealthy corporation in the world could not take a penny from my checking account unless I willingly let them. The government can take all of it. Suppose for a moment your house is prime real estate and a developer wants it:

 

Developer: We want to buy your house

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale

Developer: Fair market value is $100k, we'll pay $125k

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale

Developer: Mr./Mrs. Politician here is a campaign donation of $125k

Politician: Thanks for your support, I won the election.

Developer: We want to develop the land Aluminumtrioxid's house is on. If we do the tax base will improve.

Politician: Aluminumtrioxid we are exercising Eminent Domain, and seizing your home. The taxable value is $60k but you haven't cut the grass in two days so we're offering you $50k. Take it or leave it.

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale.

Politician: OK, we are condemning your property by Act and transferring ownership to the "public" (meaning us). You get nothing and can go f--k yourself if you don't like it. 

Aluminumtrioxid: I'll sue

Politician: Sure... good luck with that.

Politician: Hey Developer want to buy some land?

 

This EXACT scenario plays out here in the so called land of the free every year. Who is the bad guy here? Sure the "evil capitalist" initiated the whole thing but who actually took your home? Now, suppose the Politician does not have the power to take your home:

 

Developer: We want to buy your house

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale

Developer: Fair market value is $100k, we'll pay $125k

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale

Developer: Well, it's valuable to us so how about $150?

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale

Developer: OK, $175k, that 75% more than market value.

Aluminumtrioxid: It's not for sale (or OK $175k)

 

Without the government to do their dirty work they cannot force you to do anything.

 

Here is another scenario:

 

Me: I want to by health insurance

Company A: We have a policy for $10k a year

Company B: We have the same policy for $9k per year.

Me: OK, I want company B

Politician: You can't have it. You HAVE to buy from Company A.

Me: Why?

Politician: Because we have decided Company A gets exclusive rights to your state.

Me: Company A supported your campaign!

Politician: That's none of your business.

 

Take the politician out and you get this:

 

Me: I want to by health insurance

Company A: We have a policy for $10k a year

Company B: We have the same policy for $9k per year.

Me: OK, I want company B

Company A: whoa we;re getting killed here. OK, we'll lower the price to $8800 per year

Me: Yay!

 

Simplified examples yes. But without the government circumventing the process what holds everything together is contracts. Company A agrees to to this if I agree to pay that. and if we have to go to court then we are equal before the law. Try facing the government at any level in court and you find out real quick you are far from equal.  

 

The government does not exist to serve anyone. It exists solely for it's own self perpetuation. But it does have a purpose to fulfill and we do need to to fulfill that purpose. But that s--t tends to get out of hand real quick if it's allowed to do so. We're well past that point here in the US but I'm always optimistic that it's never too late to turn back.  

[Guard Dog]

i hear you can make a killing by selling gunz.

Not since Obama left office. Gun sales are in the tank. That man could flat out sell guns. 

[Guard Dog]

 

If that is so it sounds like teachers should have a bit more leverage when negotiating a salary.

That sounds very pro-union from you.

 

They do have good leverage in states where unions aren't considered a dirty word. California gets bashed over the power of the CEA pretty regularly by Republicans.

 

I've got nothing against Unions. I do have a problem with compulsory membership in a Union. All associations should be voluntary. Of course, Unions can't FORCE you to join and pay them dues. But guess who can.... that's right, your old friend the government. Or the company your work for sometimes. But you can tell them to f--k off and go work somewhere else. The NLRA allows the government to create "Exclusive representation” (more accurately, monopoly bargaining) privileges for Unions. Which means they are empowered to negotiate for you whether you want the to or not. And as your government is so fond of saying you can go f--k yourself if you don't like it.

 

That is what I have a problem with. I am 100% in the Right To Work camp. Unions can do good for people who join them. But that stops when the government puts a gun to your head and says "join or else"

[smjjames]

For the healthcare example when you take the politician out of the equation, hasnt that been tried and shown to utterly not work the way you say It would?

[Bartimaeus]

 

i hear you can make a killing by selling gunz.

Not since Obama left office. Gun sales are in the tank. That man could flat out sell guns.

 

(...I think it was a joke in that guns are a weapon that can be used to kill.)

Edited May 24, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

Unions in South Africa are both recalcitrant and intransigent, they have become a major stumbling block to address economic transformation 

 

 

They are stuck in some bizarre view where they still think its the 1980's where you ignore the P&L statement and just protest at the expense of the sustainability  of the company. They are completely out of control and our government really needs to reign them in   

 

So yes you can imagine I do have an issue with SA  trade unions 

Edited May 24, 2018 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

Unions are ok by me, do need equal weight to have a fight after all

[Guard Dog]

Yep. It' when the government begins to give them power over people who are not members that they become monsters. Of course, who is really to blame? The Unions who supported the politicians that empowered them or the politicians that took the support and created the monster? Don't know. But I DO know we CAN take the politicians power away. And God knows we need to.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/nfl/president-donald-trump-praises-nfl-new-anthem-policy-1.4675835

 

Ah, patriotism

[Hurlshort]

Ugh, this whole anthem thing is so frustrating. It's one thing to disagree with the way they are protesting, or disagreeing with what they are protesting. But this whole political theater act where you make the protest about something completely different is incredibly ugly. I can't believe how many people buy into the blatant narrative change that is going on here. What a mess.

[Bartimaeus]

I read someone else sum it up as, "Patriotism is not nationalism, nor is it fascism. We should strive to be a country where people WANT to stand up for the national anthem, not one where where they're forced to."

 

P.S. Trump's summit with North Korea was cancelled. What a shocker.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

Jeez... this anthem thing is like the fly at the dinner table that just won't go away. They don't want to stand? Fine. NFL makes them stand? Fine. People boycott the NFL for one reason or another? Fine. This isn't even 0.00001% important enough to deserve the kerfuffle it has caused. It's ok not to stand. It's ok to be mad, or not. It's ok for the NFL to make them stand. IT'S ALL OK!!! GET IT? No one's first amendment rights are being violated. Read the goddamned amendment before you quote it! If the US Government ran the league THEN you have something to complain about. 

 

Of course if they did there would only be two teams. Each team would have 2500 players most of whom have never played football before and don't even know how. The two teams would play a 30 minute game ever two years and have and annual budget of $60B and $400B in expenses. 

[majestic]

P.S. Trump's summit with North Korea was cancelled. What a shocker.

 

I like his letter to Kim Jong Un. It reminded me of the letters we had as homework in first grade, just in a different language.

[Bartimaeus]

Jeez... this anthem thing is like the fly at the dinner table that just won't go away. They don't want to stand? Fine. NFL makes them stand? Fine. People boycott the NFL for one reason or another? Fine. This isn't even 0.00001% important enough to deserve the kerfuffle it has caused. It's ok not to stand. It's ok to be mad, or not. It's ok for the NFL to make them stand. IT'S ALL OK!!! GET IT? No one's first amendment rights are being violated. Read the goddamned amendment before you quote it! If the US Government ran the league THEN you have something to complain about. 

 

Of course if they did there would only be two teams. Each team would have 2500 players most of whom have never played football before and don't even know how. The two teams would play a 30 minute game ever two years and have and annual budget of $60B and $400B in expenses.

It definitely did not warrant the controversy, and almost everyone had stopped caring about the handful of people doing it until Trump suddenly decided to make it a campaign issue (and he's still talking about it...just said today that players who kneel should be deported).

[Guard Dog]

Don't blame me. I voted for Johnson.

[Bartimaeus]

No, but it helps explain why there's still an ongoing fight. For worse or for worse, our president saying players should be deported over kneeling for the anthem (a gesture Kaepernick chose specifically because a veteran he spoke with told him it would be the most respectful way of drawing attention to himself without insulting the anthem - hah!) is something people care about.

[Chilloutman]

Aaaaand now God is perv, this is going crazy xD

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html

 

I am rolling on the floor from that video.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Chilloutman

[HoonDing]

[Hurlshort]

Aaaaand now God is perv, this is going crazy xD

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html

 

I get pretty concerned over the accusations against the elderly, because there is a lot more at play than abuse of power or misogyny. Mental capacity does change as you get into your twilight years. If Freeman has decades of this type of behavior, that is one thing. But if it has manifested itself late into his 70's, odds are this is more of a sign of diminished capacity.

[injurai]

Or a sign of getting in your debaucherous kicks before you kick it.

 

Would be disappointing to find out he was earning those freckles by other means...

[Chilloutman]

 

Aaaaand now God is perv, this is going crazy xD

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/24/entertainment/morgan-freeman-accusations/index.html

 

I get pretty concerned over the accusations against the elderly, because there is a lot more at play than abuse of power or misogyny. Mental capacity does change as you get into your twilight years. If Freeman has decades of this type of behavior, that is one thing. But if it has manifested itself late into his 70's, odds are this is more of a sign of diminished capacity.

 

 

What behavior, did you seen that video? he was just nice to her, maybe little flirty or flattering, ITS NOT BAD BEHAVIOR, and its definetelly not worth shaming man by associating him with rapists. Jesus

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, that one's not surprising, especially because there were rumors of him abusing his granddaughter for years (who's now dead, after being brutally murdered by her boyfriend in an attempted "exorcism"). And CNN asking questions without specifically mentioning him and repeatedly getting Morgan Freeman as an answer seems especially damning, though it may depend on exactly how leading the question was.

[HoonDing]

Is putting a hand on the shoulder of a female employee harassment nowadays?