Wizards...butchered.

[evilcat]

The same thing could be pretty much said about Priests. Spellcasting in general is one of the worst blunders of this game.

If someone thinks Wizard is weak definetly should play pure Priest. Gives perspective. Priest is like Wizards but:

You cant switch grimoires in combat at will, instead of 2 bonus spells almost of your choice, you get 1 spell know/level from list, which is sometimes decent, sometimes not.

At each level you have like half the spells to choose from comparing to wizard.

Your buffs sometimes take 3s+4s to cast, and last 10s. (and it is not even the great buff)

You also get 60s buffs, but they are single inspiration one, and are single target, and at high levels. Also long casting time.

Sometimes your low level inspiration gets outclasses by higher level version of spell, so it is no longer that useful.

At level V+ instead of bundled buffs+heals, you just stop getting heal spells.Generally idea "Buffs for faithfull, debuffs for the wicked" is unpopular amony deities.

No passives at low levels, you can get some at level 7+ but that is when spells are starting to be interesting.

 

On bright side: If you want play Priest for buffs/heals, go for MC Priest/Chanter, KindWayferer, Lifegiver, Wizard.But buffs and heals is limited utility build.

Edited May 17, 2018 by evilcat

[Tosho]

Shoulda been 3 casts per level, until you get lvl 9 (Single Class) Wizard is a huge chore to play.

[Maxzero]

 

Don't forget you buy (steal) a grimoire that gives +1 spell casts per level in Neketaka. There is also a +1 level 1 cast inn bonus too.

 

By level 7 you can have 4 level 1 casts, 3 level 2 and 2 level 3.

 

Way more firepower the you had in PoE1 at the same level plus you can Empower to get more casts.

Where do you find this inn (with +1 bonus)?

The area you first arrive bar bottom right talk to the barkeep about upstairs entertainment. Basically a 'private dance' option.

[Maxzero]

 

Don't forget you buy (steal) a grimoire that gives +1 spell casts per level in Neketaka. There is also a +1 level 1 cast inn bonus too.

 

By level 7 you can have 4 level 1 casts, 3 level 2 and 2 level 3.

 

Way more firepower the you had in PoE1 at the same level plus you can Empower to get more casts.

To be fair that book has a negative on it, if i recall correctly. Every damage you eat interrupts spellcasting, so you better buff that wizard well or keep him out of harms way.

Its definately for a backline mage but a melee Wizard don't need it anyway.

[Tosho]

Also I get that Mage classes in CRPGS (like BG2) typically "suck" at the start and become the most OP by the end (lol Meteor Storm).

 

That's true here too.

 

But this game makes them suck a little bit TOO much compared to other CPRGS of old. Never was my BG2 Sorc or Mage this pathetic at the start compared to my POEII Wizard. And it certainly didn't last until level 7-9 like Wizard sadly does. The issue is the "off" levels were you don't get a new resource charge and your new rank is sitting at "1" charge for a few levels.  Fix this. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Tosho

[Ryz009]

Also I get that Mage classes in CRPGS (like BG2) typically "suck" at the start and become the most OP by the end (lol Meteor Storm).

 

That's true here too.

 

But this game makes them suck a little bit TOO much compared to other CPRGS of old. Never was my BG2 Sorc or Mage this pathetic at the start compared to my POEII Wizard. And it certainly didn't last until level 7-9 like Wizard sadly does. The issue is the "off" levels were you don't get a new resource charge and your new rank is sitting at "1" charge for a few levels.  Fix this. 

 

BG2 wizard doesn't start at level 1. (least it didn't in my imported save). And googled you start at level 7+ or something.

 

BG1 wizard level 1 is garbage. You don't get decent til like...level five ish?

 

Comparing it to BG2 isn't really fair.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Ryz009

[Sanctuary]

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, but I don't know why you decided to list all of the spell tiers, when my first post was talking about how Wizards in general are one of the worst classes up until level 7.  Then they start becoming tied with single class Rangers.  Only mid, to mid-late do they start to pull their own weight and then later screen wipe kings, (which isn't really a big deal with so many other screen wipes from other classes).  The transition from zero to hero is not a smooth one at all in this game.  Offensive casters generally start out weaker in these types of games and then become stronger late game, but it's really exaggerated here.

 

I already covered empower too...

 

 

WIth Blessings of Bereth you can start with main char wizard at level 4, extra gold,+2 all stats and vendor that sells gloves with +2 power level to evocation spells in Port Maje. Mix that with Infuse with Vital Essence Nature Godlike for another +2 power levels and you are probably highest damage dealer at level 4. Chillfog ticking for 37 damage in big aoe that also blinds? I would understand if you called that imbalanced but weak or worst? Nah, you just haven't found enough game breaking **** that make wizard strong. I just hinted you one above. I'm sure there are more.

 

 

So now those blessings, and race are exclusive to the Wizard?  Also, not only have I already mentioned empower, I mentioned Chill Fog.  Twice now, and you can't use it every fight.  Not every enemy is going to bunch up and stand perfectly still for you, especially early on when you're using a tank that can only hold three enemies at most.  Ranged enemies generally don't bunch up with melee either, so you're either hitting melee, or you're hitting ranged, but not both.  It also makes using any class that has a flanking bonus way more obnoxious to micromanage than they need to be if the blind gets resisted, because either they won't be getting their damage bonus, or you risk blinding/damaging them as well.

 

Are you telling me that for every fight, if there's any kind of corner or choke point, you try to draw the attention of ALL of the enemies, and then run them all the way back to that point (if they all happen to aggro, since often when you do that half of them don't move) just to make good use of Chill Fog (and then later Fireball)?  If so, you're going out of your way to set up a scenario that puts the Wizard in a way better light than what actually shines on them right now.  For the time it takes to do that, you could have already killed at least half of the enemies or more through other means.  Things start looking different if you're talking about stacking multiple Wizards, but the same is true for a few other classes too, especially stuff like a Black Jacket/Ascendant or Devoted/Soul Blade, or how about 2x - 3x Barbarians?

 

BTW, those gloves don't affect all spells, only Evocations.  Chill Fog is a Transmutation.  The gloves slightly boost the damage output early on with Fan of Flames (should you bother using it) and Missile, but inconsequentially so.  The best thing about them is the accuracy boost.

 

Edit: Is the difficulty level of the game even being considered here?  Despite it still not being very challenging, enemy health pools scale up a little more on Veteran and then PotD don't they?

 

 

I'm playing solo so I'm not having muchos problemos with wizard friendly fire. You points are valid but they state only that wizards don't work as good in melee centric comps so its more composition related issue than wizard itself. Anyway I don't dig your argument about how bad it for wizard vs other means because he's not equally autopilot class and can't just derp in half of his arsenal like other classes. I'm roleplaying this game to a bigger degree I suppose so I don't mind doing clever even if time consuming things while playing a wizard to make him shine. About your issue with mobs placement, go and experiment with Pull of Eora, its insane in deadfire. 

 

I'm not saying those gloves are best item but they truly made my early game a breeze paired with nature godlike, I just put Infuse with Vital Essence, drop Ray of Fire on some stationary target (archer, caster), kite a bit back and drop chillfog between him and me so melees get blinded and get damage by both chillfog and ray, it sounds complicated by seriously the damage with 4 more power levels early on just makes things die super fast. 

 

Later once you get to Nekataka you can steal/buy grimoire of vaporous wizardry that give damage from spells an interrupt effect and it also gives you more spell uses per encounter. At level 10 now I can use 3x (level 1 -4) 2x (level 5) and got 3 empowers, you can easily abuse Withdraw scrolls to reset many encounters if you run out of juice but I haven't so far. 

 

I honestly don't know how can you say wizards are bad, maybe they don't fit your playstyle cause you like to autopilot on AI more or they just don't compliment your party composition and that would be fair to say but to say they are bad, I respectfully disagree on that bit. Even if you want more autopilot wizard you can build one that is focused on quick cast no recovery selfbuffs that buff up in blink of an eye with veil + infuse + spell reflect and then cast citzal lance + martial power and go ham in melee alongside with your regular barbarians, devoted cleavers etc

 

 

Not sure why you're touching upon party composition while playing solo.  I already know too that playing 4 ranged + one tank (or maybe even just five Wizards) would be better suited for going nuts with AoE, but how many people normally set up their party like that on a first playthrough?  And while the game offers enough companions that allows you to play primarily ranged, their stats aren't particularly well optimized for the class options given.

 

Also, not every encounter needs to be some "master of tactics", epicly drawn out scenario, and autopiloting it doesn't make you less of a player, especially if it's just a bunch of trash that plays out like every other encounter.  It makes you efficient with your time in the game.  Spending three minutes to do what can be done in one doesn't mean you're magically more skilled.  For the record though, not that I actually need to justify anything, I don't autopilot anything, other than the very first buff that they always get in combat, until my group stumbles upon areas that they've grossly outleveled (even with the "working" leveling scaling on).

 

Another thing is that the damage summary per character in this game counts overkill damage, and it also counts damage dealt to breakable objects.  So looking at your summary, and seeing that maybe your Wizard seems to have a higher contribution of damage dealt doesn't really tell the whole story.  It shows how much damage the combat log recorded the caster doing throughout the game, but it doesn't say at what point in the fight, nor how much of it actually mattered.  The EE BG games have this same issue too.  Unless you're starting fights from stealth and launching a big nuke, or as I said, pulling groups to chokes (or using something like Firewall, Malignant Cloud or Wall of Force on a protracted fight with a lot of enemies), you could have very well been bursting down enemies with AoE spells that were already so low in health by the time the spell landed that much of it was completely squandered.  The combat log doesn't care about that though.  It only records the calculation results.  It's not just an exclusive issue with the Wizard though.

 

I find it a bit puzzling too how some of you are acting as though the class isn't particularly weak right now (or actually believe the balance is very skewed, in favor of the class), because of the "end game" spells, when at least my argument has been this entire time the transition from zero to hero.  It's not linear at all.  Are you suggesting that Wilting Wind (level 16) or Meteor Shower (level 19) somehow justifies the slog it was to reach that point?  Most other, not purely healing or support classes will be powerhouses by those same levels too, and they would have been generally more useful up until then as well.  With how few casts you have (yes, the Vaporous book helps, but it's like everything else with the class.  Much better as you gain new spell tiers.  It also kind of locks you into a single Grimoire), the class really isn't very good as I said already, until around level 7.  That is the point in which they actually start making a definite contribution, but they still aren't really doing that much. Once the balance pass finally happens months from now, this issue with be even more exacerbated on Veteran and (especially) PotD.  It really does seem like Empower/rest cheese was how they tuned this class too.

 

Even with a high DEX, many of the crowd control spells are still too slow, and they also don't really have effects that justify casting in the first place over simply nuking.  Especially if they get resisted.  Until Death Ring, most of the AoE spells (other than the already established Chill Fog) don't do nearly enough damage to justify casting without having more than a single Wizard doing it either because of the friendly fire.  If you raise your INT high enough for the safe zone to be large enough for groups that have more than a tank for melee, you're going to suffer in other areas.  You need max MGT probably more than any other class, max, or at least very high DEX and max, or at least a very high PER.  Both Wizards and non Soul Blade Ciphers have really stringent requirements.  I've been using Aloth for my first completion run (after about a week of experimentation and restarts), and he already starts with a high INT and relatively high DEX.  Right now, mine has 18 INT and 18 DEX, and but you know what?  That INT isn't justified at all.  The diameter of the spells is still way too low to hit more than three enemies that are engaged with the tank the majority of the time due to how spread out the enemies are in most fights. 

 

The "contribution" (even couinting overkill history) of my Aloth was pretty bad for the longest time.  Until I just gave up bothering with anything other than the missile spells.  They scale very well, and they have high single target burst damage.  But if that's all I'm using the majority of the time, why not play another Ranger, Black Jacket, or Ranged Assassin?  My own character is a Ranger/Barbarian, and as of level 13, the summary shows 59,823 damage dealt.  Meanwhile, Aloth has done 26,314 (the ratio was even worse until I just started focusing on missiles).  Having a bunch of enemies that get a third of their health removed all at once is not better than bursting single targets down, especially priority targets.  Would a hired Adventurer do better?  Potentially, but then I'd also have a much better party composition than what is allowed with the companions.

 

Lastly, as it has been mentioned by more than a single person, BG Wizards were not nearly this weak starting out.  That includes the early levels in the first game.  It wasn't level 5 where they became good, it was level 1 with Sleep.  Which was borderline overpowered for the early trash.  Nuking didn't get good until Fireball at level 5, but they were far from useless for group contribution prior to that point.  Also, you could grab the Ring of Wizardry at level 1.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Sanctuary

[Tosho]

 

Also I get that Mage classes in CRPGS (like BG2) typically "suck" at the start and become the most OP by the end (lol Meteor Storm).

 

That's true here too.

 

But this game makes them suck a little bit TOO much compared to other CPRGS of old. Never was my BG2 Sorc or Mage this pathetic at the start compared to my POEII Wizard. And it certainly didn't last until level 7-9 like Wizard sadly does. The issue is the "off" levels were you don't get a new resource charge and your new rank is sitting at "1" charge for a few levels.  Fix this. 

 

BG2 wizard doesn't start at level 1. (least it didn't in my imported save). And googled you start at level 7+ or something.

 

BG1 wizard level 1 is garbage. You don't get decent til like...level five ish?

 

Comparing it to BG2 isn't really fair.

 

 

Lol true I almost forgot. Either way BG1s lvl 5 is still better than POE2 lvl 5 Wizard.

 

Slow spell count ramp up. Gets real OP at like lvl 11 tho. 

[Ryz009]

 

 

Also I get that Mage classes in CRPGS (like BG2) typically "suck" at the start and become the most OP by the end (lol Meteor Storm).

 

That's true here too.

 

But this game makes them suck a little bit TOO much compared to other CPRGS of old. Never was my BG2 Sorc or Mage this pathetic at the start compared to my POEII Wizard. And it certainly didn't last until level 7-9 like Wizard sadly does. The issue is the "off" levels were you don't get a new resource charge and your new rank is sitting at "1" charge for a few levels.  Fix this. 

 

BG2 wizard doesn't start at level 1. (least it didn't in my imported save). And googled you start at level 7+ or something.

 

BG1 wizard level 1 is garbage. You don't get decent til like...level five ish?

 

Comparing it to BG2 isn't really fair.

 

 

Lol true I almost forgot. Either way BG1s lvl 5 is still better than POE2 lvl 5 Wizard.

 

Slow spell count ramp up. Gets real OP at like lvl 11 tho. 

 

 

Not really? In BG1 at lvl 5 you have like 7 spells and the vast majority of them are level 1 spells.. (Granted I played sorcs more than wizards but I don't image they have many more spells).

 

Then of course is the fact that pure wizard in BG1 early game is wet tissue paper. Like in BG1 I didn't feel my wizard was worth crap til I got the flaming skull spell and that's pretty late in the game.

 

Though yeah you get ridiculous at lvl 11 but by then POE wizards are pretty hardy too.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ryz009

[Volourn]

BG1 level 1 wizards are pretty damn good. Yeha, they don't have lots of HP but they can put  a bunch of enemies to sleep. Just make sure they aren't being targeted. They ain't 'tanks'.

 

That said, for this game, treating spells like skills is weaksauce.

[Ryz009]

BG1 level 1 wizards are pretty damn good. Yeha, they don't have lots of HP but they can put  a bunch of enemies to sleep. Just make sure they aren't being targeted. They ain't 'tanks'.

 

That said, for this game, treating spells like skills is weaksauce.

 

As someone who just finished playing a bg1 lvl 1 wizard (sorc but same difference) about 30 minutes ago...uh no? I barely was able to kill the assassins to start with. (especially since my luck decided to go nope and spook was resisted).

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ryz009

[Nokturnal Lex]

Aloth is perfectly fine.

Fassina is the one who is horrible.

Forced to be Conjurer in a game where you're only allowed to use 1 type of Summon Spell at a time per character.  There is absolutely no reason to even use their "Summon Familiar" ability the entire game as there are way better summons available. If anything, the familiar shouldn't be considered a normal summon and should be permanently summoned like a ranger pet, but differs by being squishy and using spells instead of auto-atks. At least that would give it a reason to exist.

 

Conjurers should be able to summon multiple summons as well. Yea multiple summons can be OP but give the enemies good AoE spells and the summons will die off quicker than they can be summoned. (Especially with those insane casting times)

 

Or how about this instead. Limit the max amount of summons to 5, spread about between every character. So the amount of max summons available at one time doesn't change but you can summon multiple summons with 1 character.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Nokturnal Lex

[Hebruixe]

You know, on the other hand it finally makes sense to even have the possibility of swapping Grimoires - something I never ever did in PoE.

 

And this justifies the damage done to wizards' class design?

 

That's like amputating a person's leg...and then telling them, "Hey, you may be a cripple now, but on the other hand it you finally have a reason to use a cane! At last, canes are relevant to you! (Something they never were before we chopped off your leg!)"

[Volourn]

"As someone who just finished playing a bg1 lvl 1 wizard (sorc but same difference) about 30 minutes ago...uh no? I barely was able to kill the assassins to start with. (especially since my luck decided to go nope and spook was resisted)."

 

As someone who has played BG1 a ridiculous amount of times (btw such a ridiculous way to start a post right?), I say yes. A 1st level BG wizard can take out  as much as half a dozen level 1 enemies with one spell. Can a level 1 BG1 fighter do that? How about a level 1 PE2 anything? Yeah, I thought so. If  you die to the beginning BG1 assassins you are weaksauce.

[Zeitzbach]

 

You know, on the other hand it finally makes sense to even have the possibility of swapping Grimoires - something I never ever did in PoE.

 

And this justifies the damage done to wizards' class design?

 

That's like amputating a person's leg...and then telling them, "Hey, you may be a cripple now, but on the other hand it you finally have a reason to use a cane! At last, canes are relevant to you! (Something they never were before we chopped off your leg!)"

 

 

The old design had no character and school system. IT was just "Lol you have everything" which is what people are used to.

 

The school system should have been around since PoE 1. It's world breaking that even the circle of greatest wizard know less at EVERYTHING than some random guy going around fighting monsters while using spells made by other people.

[Ryz009]

"As someone who just finished playing a bg1 lvl 1 wizard (sorc but same difference) about 30 minutes ago...uh no? I barely was able to kill the assassins to start with. (especially since my luck decided to go nope and spook was resisted)."

 

As someone who has played BG1 a ridiculous amount of times (btw such a ridiculous way to start a post right?), I say yes. A 1st level BG wizard can take out  as much as half a dozen level 1 enemies with one spell. Can a level 1 BG1 fighter do that? How about a level 1 PE2 anything? Yeah, I thought so. If  you die to the beginning BG1 assassins you are weaksauce.

 

What one spell are you talking about? (Also why is it a ridiculous way to start a post talking about bg1 wizards when I just got finished playing one?) Unless you mean burning hands in which case...do you have the HP to take a hit? Because if you're trying to wipe a group of enemies (especially six of them) you're getting hit. Because my sorc started with 6 HP and I didn't even use con as a dump stat. You seem really mad that BG1 wizards were more liabilities than they were helpful at lower levels.

 

Also POE2 chill fog actually. Chill fog is pretty damn good. Also of course a fighter can't take a group of enemies with one spell they don't use spells. (Not to mention fighters don't get AOE anything til like near the end of BG2). Like I love how you're comparing the one class with hordes of aoe abilities to the one that doesn't get any til the second game's nearly over cause theirs is a HLA.

 

Also loool at weaksause. So let's use your same logic. If you think POE2 wizards are weak you're weaksause because if *I* can make them broken and I'm apparently an inferior player to you then POE2 wizards being bad seems to be a you problem doesn't it?

 

Like you do realize Imoen was originally put in the game as a companion because it was near impossible for some player testers using classes (like wizard) to reach the Friendly Arm Inn without help?

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ryz009

[Zeitzbach]

The thing about PvE game is that because we can't smack each other like PvP game to prove a point. Many people just put their own experience above everyone else which leads to the constant toxicity of "If I'm not enjoying this game, you aren't supposed to either."

Edited May 19, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Purudaya]

"As someone who just finished playing a bg1 lvl 1 wizard (sorc but same difference) about 30 minutes ago...uh no? I barely was able to kill the assassins to start with. (especially since my luck decided to go nope and spook was resisted)."

 

As someone who has played BG1 a ridiculous amount of times (btw such a ridiculous way to start a post right?), I say yes. A 1st level BG wizard can take out  as much as half a dozen level 1 enemies with one spell. Can a level 1 BG1 fighter do that? How about a level 1 PE2 anything? Yeah, I thought so. If  you die to the beginning BG1 assassins you are weaksauce.

 

If an inexperienced player fails to take sleep, BG1 wizards are absolute garbage against multiple enemies until about level 3 (which in a full party playthrough you probably won't reach until after the bandit camp). It's a totally broken spell - always has been - and probably isn't the best example of better class balancing.

[Elerond]

In my opinion new mechanics have made wizards ridiculously good.

 

Grimoires is biggest advantage which wizards have, as you don't need to actually pick any spells during level up as you get access to them via grimories, which there are plenty. Also grimories give you flexibility with your active spells that other classes don't have, as you can change them even middle of fight. If you make pure wizard build you can pick up more passive abilities which allows you pick more defense bonuses without hindering effectiness of you build, you can do more min-maxing with you attributes without losing you defenses too much. And multiclass wizards can just focus to pick things from their other class.

 

Empowered spell give you ability clear horders of enemies from beginning and your ability to clear most of the enemies with single spell just gets better in late game.

 

Also wizards spell list is very flexible, as you have access to variety of single target damage spells, aoe damage spell, de/buffs, magic weapons, protection spells from beginning which means thanks to grimories that you have something to every situation.

[Volourn]

"If you think POE2 wizards are weak you're weaksause"

 

I never claimed PE2 wizards were weak. I said being unable to kjill the assassins that start off in BG1 is weak.

 

 

"If an inexperienced player fails to take sleep, BG1 wizards are absolute garbage against multiple enemies until about level 3 (which in a full party playthrough you probably won't reach until after the bandit camp). It's a totally broken spell - always has been - and probably isn't the best example of better class balancing."

 

They are useful in early BG1. There are a variety of level 1 spells that are useful outside fo sleep though sleep is the most obvious useful one for clear reasons. Can BG1 wizards take a hit like a fighter/ of course not. Nor should they.

 

 

"Like you do realize Imoen was originally put in the game as a companion because it was near impossible for some player testers using classes (like wizard) to reach the Friendly Arm Inn without help?"

 

How? Worst case scenario stay on the road. The only issue is the assassin in front but he's an issue for any low level character. The game isn't designed around a solo wizard, solo fighter, or so anything. Don't forgte there is also the evil duo you also meet as well. So, you don't actually need Imoen.

 

Back to wizards, they may be 'squishy' but they are useful at low levels in BG1.

 

In PE2, wizards are still good but spells should not be treated like skills. That is silly. Also, it is still annoying you can't use 'buff' spells prior to combat. That was lame in PE1. It is lame in PE2.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Volourn

[Zeitzbach]

In PE2, wizards are still good but spells should not be treated like skills. That is silly. Also, it is still annoying you can't use 'buff' spells prior to combat. That was lame in PE1. It is lame in PE2.

 

They're kinda not which is why you can swap them around and there's no upgrade version of the spell and has tier cost. You pick whatever at what Tier and use more from the grimoire. It's a magic-only thing compared to skills.

 

And pre-buff is broken in all rpg. You either have it and overbloat the crap out of enemies because players will prebuff or you don't and keep everyone on the fair playing ground. If you want pre-buffing, there's food resting.

[rheingold]

Good lord, I remember wizards in d&d 1st edition... 3hp if you were lucky, one magic missile/day and 10AC...

They were not much better in the old ie games. Pillars (1 and 2 ) are a vast improvement at low levels.

[Volourn]

Pre buffing is not broken. Some of the best battles in BG2 were versus 'pre buffed' spell casters.  Only time 'pre buffing' is broken is if you allow insta rest which is an issue that can be solved really easy. In real life, you can't (usually) sleep 8 hours get up for 20 minutes to fight (lol) then rest for another 8 hours.   Pre buffing can make combat more challenging since npc casters can also pre buff and unlike the PC they don't have to worry about winning multiple battles.

 

To say something positive about PE2 magic, I do love how AOE spells like fireball have edges where your characetrs can be in without being blasted based on ability score. That adds an extra dimension.

 

"Good lord, I remember wizards in d&d 1st edition... 3hp if you were lucky, one magic missile/day and 10AC..."

 

If you memorized magic missle at level 1 that is weaksauce. Wizards are supposed to be intelligent.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Volourn

[Ryz009]

"If you think POE2 wizards are weak you're weaksause"

 

I never claimed PE2 wizards were weak. I said being unable to kjill the assassins that start off in BG1 is weak.

 

 

"If an inexperienced player fails to take sleep, BG1 wizards are absolute garbage against multiple enemies until about level 3 (which in a full party playthrough you probably won't reach until after the bandit camp). It's a totally broken spell - always has been - and probably isn't the best example of better class balancing."

 

They are useful in early BG1. There are a variety of level 1 spells that are useful outside fo sleep though sleep is the most obvious useful one for clear reasons. Can BG1 wizards take a hit like a fighter/ of course not. Nor should they.

 

 

"Like you do realize Imoen was originally put in the game as a companion because it was near impossible for some player testers using classes (like wizard) to reach the Friendly Arm Inn without help?"

 

How? Worst case scenario stay on the road. The only issue is the assassin in front but he's an issue for any low level character. The game isn't designed around a solo wizard, solo fighter, or so anything. Don't forgte there is also the evil duo you also meet as well. So, you don't actually need Imoen.

 

Back to wizards, they may be 'squishy' but they are useful at low levels in BG1.

 

In PE2, wizards are still good but spells should not be treated like skills. That is silly. Also, it is still annoying you can't use 'buff' spells prior to combat. That was lame in PE1. It is lame in PE2.

 

And I didn't say I wasn't able to kill them? I said I had a hard time because one of my spells failed.

 

Because she was? Also I love how "stay on the road." is an argument in a rather open game. The game isn't designed around solo wizard I never said it was my whole point with that was to show even the devs were aware of a wizard's weaknesses at that point in the game. That's why Imoen literally runs up to you because they had players who kept dying on the way to the friendly arm inn. My first playthrough of BG1 had me constantly getting oneshot with my sorc and that was with me following a guide for ideal spell choices.

 

Wizards at low level lagged behind everyone else. It's only once they started gaining levels that they become the bs broken class you get in BG2. (Unless of course you were lucky/experienced enough at the game to be aware of the cheese strats)

 

Buff spells being used prior to combat is exactly why BG's combat was so nonsense at times. Encounters had to be balanced around you having all those buffs so you'd get enemies that were prebuffed up the rear and for me at least it just became a buff race. (and god don't get me started on instant death spells. Ugh just...ugh.) Then the cheese strats of spamming a fully buffed up instant death spell so the enemy could fail a save and no just no. I'm so happy POE wasn't like that.

 

Like POE wizards being BG2 like would make them hilariously unbalanced.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ryz009

[indika_tates]

Wizards feel "different" from POE1. Multiclass wizards are absurdly broken. I'm playing an unbroken+wizard in POTD and it's funny how enemies that are supposed (by level) to crush you barely does any kind of damage. Lots of buffs at 0.4s/each. I went to Hassango at level 5-6 and I was able to tank an entire group of snakes by myself as long as the buffs were active. No class can do that. +5 STR +5 Dex + 5 Int + 5Con, 11-12 armor value, HP regen and spikes of +50 deflection (veil) with level 2 spells!

 

But pure class casters are kinda weak compared to what they were in POE1. Specially single class ciphers that I find extremely underpowered (the best thing they can do is to spam endless whispers) . Some players says that at high level wizards are good. At high levels every class is broken, specially if you have proper items. I think it's just time to get used to the new mechanics.

Edited May 19, 2018 by indika_tates