Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Maxzero

  1. So Sorceror (Druid/Wizard) would be far better off throwing Bombs in difficult fights then using their spells because there explosive skill would be sky high? Druid +2 Wizard +2 Blessing +2 Scientist background +1 Multiclass -1 Nature Godlike bonus? +1 Starting explosive skill = 6+1 by level 3 you can have 8+1 explosives and +50% damage to Cinder Bombs/Grenades. Cast Chillfog then throw a Grenade at them.
  2. Not attack spells. At the moment Wizard is used for: A) self buff armour/def spells and then melee B) Chillfog on target so you can then melee People laugh at the idea of a Sorceror and I don't blame them. Look at the screen shots above at the big Ogre's defences. Targetting Will or Fort is going to much harder then just meleeing it to death.
  3. Well look at Wizard, Cipher, Priest and Druid now. Thats exactly what we are going to get. The only spells that get used are support spells.
  4. I'm not looking down on noobs I am saying don't balance PotD difficulty (which noobs don't play) around them. At the moment the balance in this game is a complete joke. Almost every single build is basically a auto attack base which may or may not have some magical support. Only two builds attack attack through spells: Chanters and Ciphers. Even then its only indirectly. Guess what people are calling nerfs for? Chanters and Ciphers. So all we end up with is 10000 Barb/Monk/Pal clone builds that just auto attack. Man that sounds so exciting.
  5. "We" don't balance anything. Obsidian does. And they would be stupid if they didn't balance around new or one-time players because that's the vast majority of their customers. That's not true at all. They have to decide if they go ranged or melee, if they pick a single damage weapon they are screwed against immune foes and if they find an awesome weapon which isn't one they are devoted to they bite themselves. Troubadours just switch the Brisk Recitation modal on or off how they please to get the best out of every situation. Not much - as I said the nerf is to harsh. But it's also nonsense to say that Beckoner is worthless now. By the way the people who nerfed the Beckoner and me (who complains about Troubadour) are not the same persons. Since we are not connected via telepathy there are no common logical thoughts between us. Come on the only place where the difference between Beckoner and Troubadour will be noticed is PotD and noobs are not playing PotD. Again on classic this makes no difference at all. Immunes? Don't make me laugh. Since when has that stopped Devoted? The -10 accuracy only matters at the start (and accurate weapons getting +5 base halves that loss anyway) and you won't find any immunes early on anyway. Devoted for all intents and purposes does not have a downside. That why every man and his dog started with Devoted in 1.0 with no meta knowledge and didn't have a care in the world. Now the meta knowledge is out now anyway (hint go swords) Devoted downside matters even less. Actually the Beckoner is useless for summoning compared to Troubadour. Either way no doubt Obsidian seeing this will nerf Troubadour so it's worse then the Beckoner and then we can all roll melee beatsticks and auto attack our way to victory. I can't wait. There is such a thing as too much balance. It's probably why I am finding the Pathfinder RPG beta character building much more fun and creative at the moment (despite half the content not being implemented yet). The difficulty curve makes much more sense too.
  6. That's one of the worst examples for logic thinking that I ever saw - because there's no logic at all.It's like saying "Because Bill is smarter than his older brother Ted I also have to be smarter than my older brother Pete." By the way: the Devoted gets -10 ACC for non-proficient weapons. That is a significant drawback especially if you have no meta knowledge. The Troubadour has longer linger time than a vanilla chanter and pays +1 for invocations. That would have been balanced (or that is at least an approach to balance, albeit a weak one because the +1 drawback doesn't scale well at higher levels and becomes negligible). But he can also decide to switch to double phrase accumulation speed on top - which makes the +1 invocation cost as counterweight really laughable especially at higher levels where you need more phrases. All in all the flexibility that is provided with the modal which helps you to easily circumvent the disadvantage is what tips off the balance. Also several people noted in beta and after realease that there's zero reason to pick vanilla Chanter over Troubadour. Just because you didn't read or hear about that doesn't mean that this is "suddenly" the case. It was always that case that the Troubadour is overpowered (at least when compared to a vanilla Chanter). And that is not how subclasses are supposed to work. They should be equal in power like Josh planned them to be. So in my opinion: if the Troubadour is a better summoner than the Beckoner AND there is no reason to pick a vanilla Chanter over a Troubadour then the blancing issue lies with the Troubadour, not the Beckoner. And that's logic. Since when are we balancing around noobs? Do you think noobs gives a hoot about phrase modals and such? This stuff only matter in PoTD anyway you can finish normal difficulty by rolling your face on the keyboard. It's not even close to significant drawback. It never comes into place at all. Devoted get +2 Pen and crit damage for free. Troubadour has to give up half his phrases to get the extra invocations. And considering how people carry about the fire lash chant and the healing chant (to the point both got nerfed) that actually is a significant downside that is completely unavoidable (unlike Devoted's). What's logical about overnerfing the Beckoner's summoning ability then comparing it to Troubadour's summoning ability and complaining that Troubadour's summoning is OP because it's now stronger then Beckoners? It's like crushing a Ferrari with a car crusher then complaining how the Civic now looks better.
  7. But it's not a noticible one. Devoted has a penalty to use other weapons but why would it ever? +2 Pen means you pretty much never have to switch. Just pick swords and you will always have a cutting edge weapon and another +2 pen on demand. About as many people pick base Fighter as pick base Chanter/Cipher: none. Where did u get the statistics that how many people use base fighter, how many people use base chanter/cipher? I’m curious about that. It's not stats but logic. If there is no reason to take base Chanter over one of the sub classes what reason is there to take base Fighter over one of it's subclasses? If Troubadour is a problem because it outshines base Chanter then Devoted is also a problem because it outshines it's base class too. A drawback that has no impact is not much of a drawback.
  8. But it's not a noticible one. Devoted has a penalty to use other weapons but why would it ever? +2 Pen means you pretty much never have to switch. Just pick swords and you will always have a cutting edge weapon and another +2 pen on demand. About as many people pick base Fighter as pick base Chanter/Cipher: none.
  9. Considering that the Troubadour wasn't changed in the patch and no one thought he was OP before yet he has become OP post patch is interesting. What drawbacks do Paladin or the Devoted sub classes have? Is there any reason to take a base Cipher over Ascendant? The nerf was bad because it make the Beckoner bad at the very thing it was supposed to be good at. It would be like Devoted getting +2 Penetration with their favoured weapon but also +15% recovery with said weapon (ala Sharpshooter).
  10. But Skeletons who haven't spawned yet (due to phrase cost) don't have any engagement. 24 second 'recharge' and a 8 second or so base duration (times whatever you Int bonus is probably 50%). That's beyond awful.
  11. How about they worry about a DoT being overpowered when we actually see a DoT that's overpowered? Because at the moment it's all about direct damage.
  12. This is correct. You can summon a lower PL Summon straight away since initial phrase count equals your highest current Invocation phrase cost so getting Ogre summon would give you four initial phrases so you could summon base Wyrms or Skeletons straight away). Troubadours are great in this situation because they only need 3 seconds to get that extra phrase whereas Beckoners become clunky as hell.
  13. I like your superconstructive approach... Not always especially with 1.1. The fact now that Troubadours are better Summoners (and everything else) then Beckoner says it all really. My changes -1 to Summon Invo +1 to all other Invo -50% summon damage and health, -30% duration Let them have their cheap expendable Summons they were sold as having and take away non summon abilities. Definately a work in progress.
  14. Without taking into account that crits improve your overall PEN by 50%.Which is actually relevant for spells since they often have lower penetration with fewer ways to raise it. It's more than relevant for a number of things. The harder the content, the higher the enemy's armor. Very often you will find yourself in a situation where a poorly chosen spell will do 25% damage if it's a hit due to poor penetration, and full damage if it's a crit. So assuming 10 Might, a spell that does 40 base damage will do 10 damage on a hit and 50 damage on a crit. Now, at 50 accuracy vs 50 defense: 25% chance to do 0 damage (miss) 25% chance to do 5 damage (graze) 50% chance to do 10 damage (hit) Average damage: 6.25 At 70 accuracy vs 50 defense: 5% chance to do 0 damage (miss) 25% chance to do 5 damage (graze) 50% chance to do 10 damage (hit) 20% chance to do 50 damage (crit) Average damage: (25*5+50*10+20*50)/100 = 16.25 So the multiplicative damage buff from +20 accuracy in the best case scenario is +260%. (and now you know why the armor/penetration/crit system is flawed, basically accuracy is king, hit to crit is queen, and everything else is mushrooms) It's not that the system is flawed its that weapon classes have so many ways around it. Weapon not penetrating? Change weapon! Turn on a modal! Enchant! Be Berzerker/Devoted! Well made weapon classes almost never have to worry about armour. Pen system is great for weapon classes.
  15. 1) Assuming you have that spell.2) Assuming you have free casts (you have only 2 level 2 spells) 3) Assuming you hit. You can then take out the Mage. Or you can just use Full attack abilities from the start and skip all that. Remember lowering Deflection benefits all weapon classes. Lowering one FRW stat only benefits a single group of spells. But take don't my word for it look at the builds people are making. Only Empower Wizards actually use spells as their primary attacks. In almost all other cases the casters are the supports to the weapon classes. Weapon classes are simply easier to play, more consistant and more powerful and a lot of that comes down to poor spell accuracy. Casters become support because buffs don't miss.
  16. Without taking into account that crits improve your overall PEN by 50%. Which is actually relevant for spells since they often have lower penetration with fewer ways to raise it.
  17. It doesn't work like that...I will consider the average situation where your accuracy equal to the enemy's deflection. That means your attacks will be: 15%misses, 35% grazes and 50%hits. If you add 20 accuracy it will become: 30% grazes, 50% hits and 20% crits. In the first scenario your average damage would be: base dmg * (.35 * (0.5 + dmg bonuses) + .5 * (1 + dmg bonuses)) = base dmg * (0.675 + 0.85 * dmg bonuses) In the second scenario your average damage would be: base dmg * (.3 * (0.5 + dmg bonuses) + .5 * (1 + dmg bonuses) + .2 * (1.25 + dmg bonuses)) = base dmg * (0.9 + dmg bonuses) In the case of a ranger/cipher how much dmg bonuses you can have? 60% from weapon, 20% soul whip and maybe 30% from might ie 110%. If we compare the two scenarios the dps increase will be: (0.9 + 1.1) / (0.675 + 0.85 * 1.1) = 2/1.61 = 1.24 That means only a 24% dps increase from +20 accuracy... He assumed 50% misses though, which puts him starting at an (Accuracy - Defense) of -35. I mean, the thing is both of you are touching the real conclusions - a) Accuracy (or more specifically Accuracy - relevant Defense) is a very potent stat, easily more powerful than Might or Dex at low starting values b) (A-D) at higher values drops in effectiveness harder than any other stat, making it much worse than Might or Dex once you reach certain levels of (A-D) (homework: can you calculate the values where this drop off occurs? It's probably lower than you are assuming! Extra credit: do it for attacks that can graze vs attacks that can't graze) c) (A-D) are the most manipulable stats in combat. You can get a Strong buff to add +5 Might. But you can flank an enemy and hit them with a pike for -20 Deflection, lower their resolve by another 10, etc. The aforementioned weapon modals are a huge PARTY WIDE buff to (A-D). Combat spells tend to raise Accuracy much more than Might, Dex, etc. Basically, there is a sweet spot that you want to hit for (A-D) and then put effort in raising your attack rate, might, etc, rather than pump more accuracy. Also, as mentioned, positioning and tactics in combat play a HUGE role here and should be emphasized. That also only applies to Deflection. When we are talking about spells that usually target Reflex, Fort and Will. As I mentioned not only do these stats have fewer ways to be targetted but many of the ways to target them then test against the very saves they are trying to lower. For example lets say you want to Charm a dangerous Mage. You notice that they have high Will save so you get your Wizard to cast Dullmindness. Of course Dullmindness also tests against Will. In the end you say stuff it and spam Full attack skills till the Mage is dead. Its not like weapon class where you just switch on a modal, upgrade the enchant level or just swing/shoot again. Its why Wizards all become Empower spammers. Its one of the few ways that let a spell reliably hit without spending 2 actions setting it up.
  18. now as caster you need to use drugs and alchemy. otherwise good luck in landing your spells. the only spells i choose now are mostly buffs on my party. the only useful spells are aoe with duration like chillfog for example. I have thought about a Warlock build (Barb/Wizard - no subclasses for either) that uses Wizard spells to boost Deflection and armour (to not die in melee) and DWs a Club and Flail to AoE apply (through Carnage) -25 Will and -25 Reflex. Frenzy gives a nice Con, Might and action speed buff (and procs Nature Godlike too). Just worried about fragility in the early game in Deadfire 1.1
  19. Sadly the most important stat for Casters is Accuracy. One of the biggest mistakes from PoE1->PoE2 is removing spell bonus accuracy. Yes spell per encounter is nice but missing major spells feels so bad. Especially when there isn't anything you can do about it (many early debuffs focus on Deflection which spells rarely target). About the only early non spell save debuffs are the weapon modals: Club (-25 will), Flail (-25 reflex) or Morningstar (-25 Fort) which can be really tricky for casters to apply.
  20. The problem there is that you then have to balance the effects of Power Level scaling to 20+ ranks higher than previously. Which I doubt that they have done. (By comparison, Alchemy boosts Potions/Drugs in duration and intensity, but character Power Level (for the most part) only impacts Duration.) Also, this would pair certain skills with certain classes such that any other skillpoint allocation would be a noob trap. Would they? Missile spells excessively benefit from power level. Yet Wizards still use plenty of different spells. Assuming 1 PL per 4 skill level (or 0.25 per 1) would give +5 PL at level 20. I think that is perfectly reasonable and far from overpowered. Would Insect spells suddenly become amazing with a couple of extra PLs? As for noob trap why would noobs care? They are playing the game fine now with no scaling. An advanced synergy won't affect them at all.
  21. I had a similiar idea and even tested it out but it didn't work out that great. Why? Because accuracy is an issue (as it always is with casters). Especially early on when you have poor accuracy and fewer spells. When your big DoTs miss it feels...bad...real bad. It does not help that most DoT spells test versus Fortitude which is hard to debuff. One idea I had is Wizard/Druid using things like Chill Fog and Miasma to help spells land other Wizard and Druid spells land. It would be nice if active skills did buff some spells though perhaps with reduced effects (+1 PL every 3 or 4 skill levels). It makes sense that Alchemy buffs Poison spells. Stealth could buff Illusion spells. Explosives AoE spells. Athletics could boost buff spells.
  • Create New...