Dialogue in Obsidian Games

[Tigranes]

I would plump for no voice acting, myself, but partial is also fine.

 

It is extraordinarily expensive and disruptive to do full voice acting for wordy RPGs - so much so that, in an alternate universe, gamers and devs are thinking what the hell is wrong with us. For better or for worse, it's now believed that gamers expect it, so companies have to go out and spend that extraordinary amount of money and effort to get it done - with the result that a lot of voice acting is awful to mediocre, and it has other effects (e.g. RPGs getting a word count cap, inability to edit writing after a very early point, etc). 

 

The point is that, OK, if you love voice acting, I don't want to attack you for that, all I'm saying is it's really costly to do it, and "other games did it" doesn't change that equation - it just means, whether by taking out super-risky bank loans, selling yourself to a publisher, compromising on your writing, etc., they decided to go for it. And I wouldn't like Obsidian to pay that cost for what I consider to be "nice if done well, not really a big deal."

[Valmy]

I have no interest in a game making all the sacrifices necessary to be fully voice acted. Nor am I particularly interested in having no Voice Acting at all.

 

So I guess I strongly disagree with you on this point.

[Heijoushin]

All I want voiced is the narrator, because the opening scene really adds to the atmosphere. After from that, I'm not too fussed about voices. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we've been enjoying RPGs for years before voice overs became a thing. 

[Messier-31]

Matt Mercer can voice entire game for all I care. I am horrible in recognising voice actors. I wouldn’t notice that McRee, Aloth, Eder and PC voice are the same person if I wouldn’t read it on IMDB. :-D

 

 

As long as they are all Edérs… ツ

 

Yes, that would be an exception.

[Sedrefilos]

Budget experts strike again

 

Facts not speculation.

 

Games were ejoyed back then without VO, true. Games were enjoyed back then in resolution 320x200x256 colors, also true. Games were enjoyed back then having blips from pc speaker for music, also true. Games were enjoyed back then with only controller the keyboard, also true.

[Heijoushin]

Budget experts strike again

 

Facts not speculation.

 

Games were ejoyed back then without VO, true. Games were enjoyed back then in resolution 320x200x256 colors, also true. Games were enjoyed back then having blips from pc speaker for music, also true. Games were enjoyed back then with only controller the keyboard, also true.

 

Okay, sure, maybe we just made do with what was available. But look at this way: if you load up an old game from the 90s, the bad graphics will probably bother you. But I doubt the lack of VO will. 

[Sedrefilos]

 

Budget experts strike again

 

Facts not speculation.

 

Games were ejoyed back then without VO, true. Games were enjoyed back then in resolution 320x200x256 colors, also true. Games were enjoyed back then having blips from pc speaker for music, also true. Games were enjoyed back then with only controller the keyboard, also true.

 

Okay, sure, maybe we just made do with what was available. But look at this way: if you load up an old game from the 90s, the bad graphics will probably bother you. But I doubt the lack of VO will. 

 

Well, I loaded up some old adventures to play and, yes, the lack of VO bugged me   Even more than the graphics themselves tbh ('cause I believe old 2D graphics, when played in their original resolution -windowed- are still somewhat good).

Anyway it's a matter of personal preference and having VO with the ability to mute it I believe is better for everyone. Again I'm gonna point at DOS2 that did exactly this. You don't like the voices? No problem, mute them. You only like narrator? No problem mute everything except narrator. I mean how great is this, huh?

After all, VO is a modern day standard. I don't see why a game having people speak in it shouldn't have it.

[JerekKruger]

@Sedrefilos - If it cost nothing to add full (mutable) voice acting to the game I'd agree, but it does cost money. You are of course correct that we don't know have the details for Deadfire's budget, it the cost of full voice acting; but we do know that more voice acting will cost more money and that Deadfire's budget is finite. Given this, and the fact I find partial voice acting perfectly enjoyable when done well (and full voice acting actually detracts from my enjoyment when it's done badly), if rather Obsidian sacrifice voice acting rather than other sources of the game if they need to do either.

 

Of course if Obsidian do decide they have the money for full voice acting then that's great. I ain't against it in principle or anything.

[Lephys]

I'm rather fond of the partial-voice format in which all the dialogue is well-written and you mostly read it, but occasionally the character speaks a voiced line. It's usually either the first line in a given paragraph (for example, if you're just meeting them, it would probably be the "Mighty strange seeing an Elf around here... name's Vincent" line that just sort of embodies their general demeanor in the whole greeting paragraph), or it's just a line that's not even written, but embodies the general emotion behind what is written. Like, if they're going off on you for something, the voice might say "UhhhhhGH! I cannot be-LIEVE you right now!" or something. (Just an example... I'm not a pro writer, haha).

[Quillon]

It is extraordinarily expensive

Yeah its expensive but making it for only one language should be a mitigating factor, no? I mean if an AAA game that sells 2+ million copies can afford to have full VO in 3+ different languages, an AA game(deadfire) that's projected to sell around 1 million(I guess) should be able to for only one language, I think. Altho an Obsidian RPG usually contain a lot more lines of dialogue than most AAA titles :/

 

I like VO, give me full VO if you can afford to have it in your game and I don't usually notice bad VO in games but if I do notice any; its almost always because of badly written dialogue rather than bad voice acting.

[Wormerine]

I really liked what Pyre did with its VO. Essencially they didn't voice anything, but for each character they recorded multiple sound clips in made up language expresing their personality and mood. Worked pretty well, I think.

[Gromnir]

good vo may make a well written character better.

 

good vo may improve a mediocre or one dimensional character

 

bad vo may ruin a good character.  

 

bad vo only makes a bad character laughable 'stead o' forgettable. 

 

and mediocre vo doesn't do a damn thing.

 

the limited vo in ps:t tended to enhance the game. the vo for kotor1 hk-47 transformed a one-trick-pony into a fan favorite. 'course the examples o' bad vo is legion.

 

if obsidian were an enormous studio with massive resources, am thinking they would prefer full vo, but obsidian ain't bethesda or blizzard. get a cast similar to ps:t to do full vo for deadfire would be nice, and no doubt implausibly expensive.  so instead, if obsidian could find a way to pay for full vo, am thinking it would necessarily tend towards competence rather than excellence.  

 

am not needing mediocre full vo and am not seeing a way for a developer such as obsidian to afford excellent vo.  am not seeing the value from such an investment.  vo is one o' those aspects for Gromnir which if not done well, am thinking is better to not do at all.  use saved monies to improve other aspects o' the game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[algroth]

My biggest problem with the notion of full VO is that in my experience with Obsidian games, the VO work has been patchy to say the least. I don't trust that more VO won't merely dilute what quality there is in the main cast further within a mire of badly-performed supporting characters.

Edited December 12, 2017 by algroth

[Sedrefilos]

Obsidian voice-over is always mediocre so I don't want voiceover is equal as argument to Obsidian games are buggy and upolished so I don't want polishing and bug fixing.

Obviously, when we talk about a wanted feature, we mean to be included done right not half-arsed.

If they come and tell us "look, we can fully voice the game but it's gonna be crap" I'm gonna say "no VO" too.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[injurai]

I really liked what Pyre did with its VO. Essencially they didn't voice anything, but for each character they recorded multiple sound clips in made up language expresing their personality and mood. Worked pretty well, I think.

 

I agree, but it's a different game.

[algroth]

Obsidian voice-over is always mediocre so I don't want voiceover is equal as argument to Obsidian games are buggy and upolished so I don't want polishing and bug fixing.

Obviously, when we talk about a wanted feature, we mean to be included done right not half-arsed.

If they come and tell us "look, we can fully voice the game but it's gonna be crap" I'm gonna say "no VO" too.

Not quite what I'm saying, however: I'm saying that the case with Obsidian in my experience is that the main characters are well performed, but the supporting ones are *poorly* performed, and that in my experience the less VO there's been in Obsidian games, the more focused and better it's been. As Gromnir says above, bad VO has the power of either ruining a character or changing him from an ignorable addition to an outright bad one, and as far as I'm concerned there's no reason *why* to voice them beyond it becoming slowly an industry standard (this is also why the bugs equivalence is false, since bugs and glitches do speak of a negative trait or a problem in the game, whereas the absence of VO does not). If they can do it well, sure, but experience so far suggests otherwise - which is precisely the issue, which is that I don't trust them to do a good job with this aspect based on past experiences. To flip your argument, if we were promised "good VO" and were certain to get it, then I too would be for it without a doubt - thing is, that is hardly a certainty.

Edited December 12, 2017 by algroth

[Sedrefilos]

Why everyone's ignoring the muting option? Are most of you against vo by principal?

If there's a mute option n o ne's forcing voices. If they're bad, you can always mute them.

[JerekKruger]

Why everyone's ignoring the muting option? Are most of you against vo by principal?

If there's a mute option n o ne's forcing voices. If they're bad, you can always mute them.

 

I doubt we'd be given the option to mute selected characters. Baldur's Gate 2 would have lost a lot if Irenicus's voice actor had been muted, but it would also have been a lot worse (for me at least) if every single line of dialogue had been voice acted poorly. I'd much rather have only the key characters in the game voice acted, but have them done really well, than have every single merchant and random person on the street have all their lines voice acted badly just because it has become the industry standard.

[KDubya]

Why everyone's ignoring the muting option? Are most of you against vo by principal?

If there's a mute option n o ne's forcing voices. If they're bad, you can always mute them.

 

It's not a matter of not wanting to hear voice overs, the issue is that at a fundamental level of game design you're either writing deep dialogue trees where adding another tree is as easy as typing OR you design such that dialogue is as minimum as possible in order to minimize the amount of voice work needed. The first lets you add in whole sections of dialogue easily at any point, even post release via patching, while the fully voiced model is effectively set in stone at an early time and can't be easily changed.

 

Fully voiced games are attempting to chase the mythical 'casual gamer' that will reward middle of the road mediocrity with untold riches. I'd like PoE and its sequels to remain a high quality niche that can be modestly supported by its current customers. Limiting the expense on voice overs looks to be trying to stay and serve our niche market.

[Sedrefilos]

Obviously many of you haven't played DOS2 and you base your opinions on what was told on kickstarters 5 years ago. And it's fair 'cause I was on the same boat until I played DOS2 and saw for myself.

 

DOS2 crowdfunding campaign started with no voice over and never had even a stretch goal for it. The ammount of dialogue (which is huge) made the devs think they can't put a single recording in it except the background talk, just as it was in the first base game.

Sometime near the end of the production they announced they're going for full voice over (in english only of course) without cutting anything from the writing. And they where cheered of course.

In my opinion, the voice acting of DOS2 is very good, way better than I expected even with some actors voicing multiple chracaters and way better than Pillars 1.

If you have good actors, the merchants, the guards, the innkeepers, heck even mice would sound good.

The best part of it was that they put options to sperately mute voice groups. Characters, narrator, background voices etc. So you can customize what you want to hear and what not. You want ot hear only the main characters? OK you got the option.

 

That's the way I'm hoping Obs will go. Now, I know many of you don't like voices but I don't see why you have problems if muting options are in. This is better than forcing half-voicing (especially if its ok-ish quality wise).

Edited December 13, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[Messier-31]

No baldening hats > Full VO

 

But I wouldn't be surprised if we get none of the above... *shrug*

[illathid]

Obviously many of you haven't played DOS2 and you base your opinions on what was told on kickstarters 5 years ago. And it's fair 'cause I was on the same boat until I played DOS2 and saw for myself.

 

DOS2 crowdfunding campaign started with no voice over and never had even a stretch goal for it. The ammount of dialogue (which is huge) made the devs think they can't put a single recording in it except the background talk, just as it was in the first base game.

Sometime near the end of the production they announced they're going for full voice over (in english only of course) without cutting anything from the writing. And they where cheered of course.

In my opinion, the voice acting of DOS2 is very good, way better than I expected even with some actors voicing multiple chracaters and way better than Pillars 1.

If you have good actors, the merchants, the guards, the innkeepers, heck even mice would sound good.

The best part of it was that they put options to sperately mute voice groups. Characters, narrator, background voices etc. So you can customize what you want to hear and what not. You want ot hear only the main characters? OK you got the option.

 

That's the way I'm hoping Obs will go. Now, I know many of you don't like voices but I don't see why you have problems if muting options are in. This is better than forcing half-voicing (especially if its ok-ish quality wise).

 

If DOS2 is your example of a what results from a game with full voice acting, you're not going to be very convincing. DOS2 was a horrible mess of a game with a lackluster plot, terrible game mechanics, and was in general a waste of money. Maybe if they used the money they wasted on voice acting into paying for more writing and development time they could've made a good game.

Edited December 15, 2017 by illathid

[Sedrefilos]

 

Obviously many of you haven't played DOS2 and you base your opinions on what was told on kickstarters 5 years ago. And it's fair 'cause I was on the same boat until I played DOS2 and saw for myself.

 

DOS2 crowdfunding campaign started with no voice over and never had even a stretch goal for it. The ammount of dialogue (which is huge) made the devs think they can't put a single recording in it except the background talk, just as it was in the first base game.

Sometime near the end of the production they announced they're going for full voice over (in english only of course) without cutting anything from the writing. And they where cheered of course.

In my opinion, the voice acting of DOS2 is very good, way better than I expected even with some actors voicing multiple chracaters and way better than Pillars 1.

If you have good actors, the merchants, the guards, the innkeepers, heck even mice would sound good.

The best part of it was that they put options to sperately mute voice groups. Characters, narrator, background voices etc. So you can customize what you want to hear and what not. You want ot hear only the main characters? OK you got the option.

 

That's the way I'm hoping Obs will go. Now, I know many of you don't like voices but I don't see why you have problems if muting options are in. This is better than forcing half-voicing (especially if its ok-ish quality wise).

 

If DOS2 is your example of a what results from a game with full voice acting, you're not going to be very convincing. DOS2 was a horrible mess of a game with a lackluster plot, terrible game mechanics, and was in general a waste of money. Maybe if they used the money they wasted on voice acting into paying for more wrioting and development time they could've made a good game.

 

 

I am talking about VO here only, yes, although I completely disagree with your view of DOS2 on other matters; I found it great as most of the people who played it, obviously.

[illathid]

 

I am talking about VO here only, yes, although I completely disagree with your view of DOS2 on other matters; I found it great as most of the people who played it, obviously.

 

 

Ah, argumentum ad populum? You'll need to do better than that.

Edited December 15, 2017 by illathid

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

I am talking about VO here only, yes, although I completely disagree with your view of DOS2 on other matters; I found it great as most of the people who played it, obviously.

 

 

Ah, argumentum ad populum? You'll need to do better than that.

 

Ι don't intend to. I don't care what others think of the game, it's not mine. I played it, I liked it. I'm just bringing up Larian's approach on VO and how Obs can take inspiration because I think they did a very good job and Deadfire can use, at least, some ideas.