What multiclasses have you played with so far?

[Boeroer]

Ahh! That makes sense. Thanks a bunch!

[SaruNi]

Not much. Skalds need melee crits in order to get phrases faster. Furies have a ranged attack when shifted.

 

Of course you could either skip melee crits and just rely on the lower cost for offensive invocations and/or skip the shifting with the Fury and it will still work somehow. But that's not really good synergy. Also Spirit of Decay and so on do not work with chanter invocations becaause those are labeled with "offensive invocation" only but lack keywords like "electricity" or "forst" on invocation like "Thrice She was Wronged" or "Seven Nights" which do electricity and frost damage. Maybe this will get adressed in another patch. Josh said that this is not right - but who knows what they can fix until May 8th?

 

Troubadour/Fury could be nice because you could stay ranged - and stuff like Sure Handed Ila + Mith Fyr will be a great combo for your ranged attacks. If you kill an enemy while in shifted form you get more shift duration. With Sure Handed Ila and Mith Fyr you'd have two parallel phrases that increase your (and your party's) dps significantly while you use your natural weapons.

 

In general Fury is great with the new beta4: A fury gains +1 PEN for all the elemental druid spells AND can take the elemental PEN abilites like Scion of Flame and so on. That's +2 PEN with your chosen elemental spells (either if you focus on one element or take multiple of the elemental PEN abilites). Since both are passive, they should stack with something like Tenacious (+5 MIG, +2 PEN).

 

Speaking of Tenacious: I think multiclassing with a Monk (pref. Helwalker for the immense MIG bonus) is a good idea. You can stack +4 PEN on your elemental spells with Thunderous Blows, gain +30% shocking lash and +20% speed (stacks with Sure Handed Ila) on your fury attacks with Lightning Strikes and using Duality of Mortal Presence and Enlightened Agony to buff INT - those are great synergies. Even if a single class fury might be better (?), it surely will be effective. I didn't test it yet though - just theorycrafting.

Also Long Stride and one good healing spell should make it easier for the Helwalker part to survive.

 

The one teleport / encounter might provide a little bit of synergy, since Skald could benefit from getting in and out of close range quickly. If the strategy is paralyze/stun then attack in melee to crit and get more phrases then the increased range and penetration for Returning Storm could help (especially since iirc it doesn't require you to be shifted to get the bonuses). Strategically placed precast Tanglefoot and Druid defensive buffs might also help---and there's Taste of the Hunt for melee weapon damage. 

 

OTOH chanter stun/paralyze and Storm spells might be more redundant than synergistic. And of course there's the glory that is Firebrand (j/k)....

Edited April 10, 2018 by SaruNi

[Michael_Galt]

That idea of the monk/cipher sounds really cool (the monk who gains focus from hurting others).  He could literally be feeding off their physical or psychic pain, being a sort of vampire.  As he does more physical harm, he builds up focus to attack them mentally as well. 

 

Or, just a normal monk/cipher.  If you hurt him, you just build up his wounds so that he becomes more dangerous.  Once he does gain wounds, he unleashes his attacks, which he uses to gain focus and then finish you off.

[CottonWolf]

I just had a fiddle about with spellblade (wizard/streetfighter). If you build into a melee build it's really good post-level 7. Throw on Arcane Veil, dual wield a weapon type with +ACC to make up for the fact you need resolve to push your deflection higher so can't really invest in PER, then just get surrounded and kill everything with ripostes. It'll be even better if riposte gets changed to on graze in the final version.

 

It might actually be even better with a priest of Wael/streetfighter, as I was only really making use of Arcane Veil, rather than the other wizard spells. I didn't think to check whether riposte triggers while casting, if so, it would be a great buffer/DPSer.

[prototype00]

Since I can only stand here on the jetty and gaze longingly at those marvelous beta ships whisking across the bay I'd just like to beg a crumb of information:

 

With all the changes happening thus far has anyone tried out a Monk (Shattered Pillar) / Cipher (Soulblade) multiclass thus far, and:

 

1. How does it play, would I be better off going straight Monk (Shattered Pillar) or Cipher (Soulblade)

2. If I replaced Shattered Pillar with Helwalker, would it... work better?

3. Between this and a Druid (Shifter) / Monk (Helwalker) which I hear is also mucho synergistic, which one would you pick

4. Good races for any of the combos I mentioned?

 

Thank yee all so very kindly for the answers!

 

prototype00

[KDubya]

Since I can only stand here on the jetty and gaze longingly at those marvelous beta ships whisking across the bay I'd just like to beg a crumb of information:

 

With all the changes happening thus far has anyone tried out a Monk (Shattered Pillar) / Cipher (Soulblade) multiclass thus far, and:

 

1. How does it play, would I be better off going straight Monk (Shattered Pillar) or Cipher (Soulblade)

2. If I replaced Shattered Pillar with Helwalker, would it... work better?

3. Between this and a Druid (Shifter) / Monk (Helwalker) which I hear is also mucho synergistic, which one would you pick

4. Good races for any of the combos I mentioned?

 

Thank yee all so very kindly for the answers!

 

prototype00

 

I've used a Shattered Pillar/ Soul Blade and a few other Shattered Pillars like pure class, mixed with Devoted, mixed with Paladin (both Gold Pact and Bleak Walker) and mixed with Berserker.

 

Now that fist damage is fixed (it used to lose out Transcendent after a save load) Fists are the king of auto attack DPS. They have more base damage than slow one handers like swords and battle axes and the attack speed of fast weapons like rapiers and daggers. Power level also directly increases your penetration, accuracy and damage. Bottom line fists are great and you want as high a power level as you can get.

 

So based on the above you'd want to use a Nature Godlike for the wellspring which gets you +2 power level and can be activated by Swift Strikes and Thunderous Blows so it'll be active pretty much all the time. This gets you +15% damage, +1 penetration and +4 accuracy, all of which is way better than any hat + racial.

 

A pure class will have more abilities, more power levels, access to high level abilities and faster access to abilities. Getting an extra ability pick every time you gain a power level is really really nice. Just due to power levels a pure monk will gain +1 penetration, +4 accuracy and +15% damage for free. I would not make a pure Cipher, especially a Soul Blade, the synergy that they gain from multiclassing with a melee type is just too great. Even blending a wizard for the instant buffs, illusion spells and summoned weapons or a priest with summoned weapons would work really good and be better than a pure Cipher.

 

Your shattered Pillar/Soul Blade gets +40% damage from whip at the cost of one ability, and can get +1 penetration from the Cipher passive for one ability. So two ability picks puts you at +25% damage, equal penetration and -4 accuracy compared to a pure monk who will be two power levels ahead. So auto attacking wise its better for the Soul Blade mix depending on the value of two abilities.

 

If you keep the cipher abilities low, only taking the really good ones and only when the game forces you to pick one (when you gain a power level) you can get some of the monk abilities but you will not have enough to take all that you'd like. Just dumping all your accrued focus into soul annihilation rather than using cipher powers will put out a lot of damage

 

A pure monk will be the better monk by far. If you want to use lots of monk abilities and passives going pure is a good choice. If you want instead a few Cipher abilities to add some unique stuff to a monk a soul blade is a good choice.

 

It comes down to playstyle, from a mechanical standpoint both are good.

 

I much prefer Shattered Pillar to any of the other Monks. Needing to take damage for wounds is not as good as needing to inflict damage for wounds. It's better to give than receive   To me a melee Helwalker who gets to taking an extra 50% damage just seems too glassy. Lots of ranged versions that use the Helwalker to fuel a massive spell assault from their other class but that doesn't fit my image of a monk. 

 

I don't have experience with druids and shifters, just don't like the playstyle.

 

For races a Nature Godlike adds a lot to a fist user. Other than the gimped island Aumaua (faster movement through surf and mud??? really ???) every race is pretty good so pick what you like.

 

PotD with party companions will be easy enough that you can make any class you like without min maxing and be successful.  So make what you find fun and interesting. Triple Crown Solo is a whole different game.

[Frog Man]

 

Since I can only stand here on the jetty and gaze longingly at those marvelous beta ships whisking across the bay I'd just like to beg a crumb of information:

 

With all the changes happening thus far has anyone tried out a Monk (Shattered Pillar) / Cipher (Soulblade) multiclass thus far, and:

 

1. How does it play, would I be better off going straight Monk (Shattered Pillar) or Cipher (Soulblade)

2. If I replaced Shattered Pillar with Helwalker, would it... work better?

3. Between this and a Druid (Shifter) / Monk (Helwalker) which I hear is also mucho synergistic, which one would you pick

4. Good races for any of the combos I mentioned?

 

Thank yee all so very kindly for the answers!

 

prototype00

I've used a Shattered Pillar/ Soul Blade and a few other Shattered Pillars like pure class, mixed with Devoted, mixed with Paladin (both Gold Pact and Bleak Walker) and mixed with Berserker.

 

Now that fist damage is fixed (it used to lose out Transcendent after a save load) Fists are the king of auto attack DPS. They have more base damage than slow one handers like swords and battle axes and the attack speed of fast weapons like rapiers and daggers. Power level also directly increases your penetration, accuracy and damage. Bottom line fists are great and you want as high a power level as you can get.

 

So based on the above you'd want to use a Nature Godlike for the wellspring which gets you +2 power level and can be activated by Swift Strikes and Thunderous Blows so it'll be active pretty much all the time. This gets you +15% damage, +1 penetration and +4 accuracy, all of which is way better than any hat + racial.

 

A pure class will have more abilities, more power levels, access to high level abilities and faster access to abilities. Getting an extra ability pick every time you gain a power level is really really nice. Just due to power levels a pure monk will gain +1 penetration, +4 accuracy and +15% damage for free. I would not make a pure Cipher, especially a Soul Blade, the synergy that they gain from multiclassing with a melee type is just too great. Even blending a wizard for the instant buffs, illusion spells and summoned weapons or a priest with summoned weapons would work really good and be better than a pure Cipher.

 

Your shattered Pillar/Soul Blade gets +40% damage from whip at the cost of one ability, and can get +1 penetration from the Cipher passive for one ability. So two ability picks puts you at +25% damage, equal penetration and -4 accuracy compared to a pure monk who will be two power levels ahead. So auto attacking wise its better for the Soul Blade mix depending on the value of two abilities.

 

If you keep the cipher abilities low, only taking the really good ones and only when the game forces you to pick one (when you gain a power level) you can get some of the monk abilities but you will not have enough to take all that you'd like. Just dumping all your accrued focus into soul annihilation rather than using cipher powers will put out a lot of damage

 

A pure monk will be the better monk by far. If you want to use lots of monk abilities and passives going pure is a good choice. If you want instead a few Cipher abilities to add some unique stuff to a monk a soul blade is a good choice.

 

It comes down to playstyle, from a mechanical standpoint both are good.

 

I much prefer Shattered Pillar to any of the other Monks. Needing to take damage for wounds is not as good as needing to inflict damage for wounds. It's better to give than receive To me a melee Helwalker who gets to taking an extra 50% damage just seems too glassy. Lots of ranged versions that use the Helwalker to fuel a massive spell assault from their other class but that doesn't fit my image of a monk.

 

I don't have experience with druids and shifters, just don't like the playstyle.

 

For races a Nature Godlike adds a lot to a fist user. Other than the gimped island Aumaua (faster movement through surf and mud??? really ???) every race is pretty good so pick what you like.

 

PotD with party companions will be easy enough that you can make any class you like without min maxing and be successful. So make what you find fun and interesting. Triple Crown Solo is a whole different game.

I wish I loved anyone in my life the way KDubya loves monks

 

(Good info by the way)

[prototype00]

Thanks KDubya, that is perfect, basically what I was looking for.

 

Just curious, a couple more questions if I may?

 

1. If we use Torments Reach Instead of just Autoattacking, will that be equally as potent? I recall Torments Reach was great last time.

 

2. Is it possible to cherry pick the good Cipher passive (Thunderous blows) and then just stick to Monk for the active abilities, or does Power Level prevent that?

 

3. Is the amount of penetration that the multiclassing gets enough for most combats with Hel Hyraf picking up the slack? (I was probably also going to multi Pallegina)

 

Thanks so much for giving basically the thesis on monks before the game is even released! (Shifter/ Helwalker/ Moon godlike is basically for the innate heals which are massive thanks to Might, then it’s just a Shapeshifter for the most part combat wise, just with Swift Srtikes).

Edited April 13, 2018 by prototype00

[KDubya]

Thanks KDubya, that is perfect, basically what I was looking for.

 

Just curious, a couple more questions if I may?

 

1. If we use Torments Reach Instead of just Autoattacking, will that be equally as potent? I recall Torments Reach was great last time.

 

2. Is it possible to cherry pick the good Cipher passive (Thunderous blows) and then just stick to Monk for the active abilities, or does Power Level prevent that?

 

3. Is the amount of penetration that the multiclassing gets enough for most combats with Hel Hyraf picking up the slack? (I was probably also going to multi Pallegina)

 

Thanks so much for giving basically the thesis on monks before the game is even released! (Shifter/ Helwalker/ Moon godlike is basically for the innate heals which are massive thanks to Might, then it’s just a Shapeshifter for the most part combat wise, just with Swift Srtikes).

 

1.) Torment's reach (or any monk attack like Force of Anguish etc) benefits from the soul whip. The upgraded version has a nice AoE stun that does a great job. Its toned down from PoE but I find it still worth spamming nonstop which is what a Shattered Pillar was built for as you can almost generate enough wounds from one activation to pay for the next.

 

2.) You have to take a Cipher power with the extra ability you gain per power level. So that's like seven and you'll have nineteen in Monk. Easy enough to find 7 good Cipher powers and/or passives to select. A pure Monk will have 28 monk powers.

 

3.) Both can get Thunderous Blows for +5 Might and +2 Penetration. The pure monk will be ahead by one penetration due to having two higher power levels but the Cipher gets that back with that cipher passive so its even in the end.

 

At least in Beta the moon godlike heals are not very good as they don't scale, the same for fire godlike retaliation. Not sure if bug or feature. This makes Nature Godlike the best of the bunch, especially for a fist monk as +15% damage, +4 accuracy and +1 penetration are pretty fracking great.

 

If you are sticking to the low level Monk attacks like FoA and Torment's, then going with a multi class, especially a Soul Blade works really well. It blends especially well with a Shattered Pillar due to their max wound limit of five instead of ten.

[Merany]

Was brainstorming ideas yesterday for a multiclass character for my very first playthrough. Wanted something that could fit with the companions, be viable for Veteran, and also made sense from a roleplay perspective. Settled on a monk / chanter and started the beta to try an helwalker / skald.

Seemed like it could work, take some hits, hit back like a truck, cast big damage spells.

In practice, I felt like the actual skills of the monk were lacking synergies with the chanter. I was just auto-attacking most of the time and casting a couple spells a fight. And taking a **** ton of damage too...

I could have made some big mistakes in building though. Can't remember exactly but I did not have many skills to spend those wounds on, it's possible I took too many passives. I think I also put too many points in might that were not necessary because of helwalker and could have gone into intellect for stun duration or tankiness.

 

Wasn't awful by any mean but not great either.

Am I playing it wrong? Anyone also tried something similar?

[Boeroer]

You can try Soft Winds as the only chant (stacks with itself). It drains health for you nowadays and is very powerful atm. It will balance out the hefty damage that a Helwalker at 10 wounds will receive (with the big bonus the healing gets from the high MIG). 

 

Also Killers Froze Stiff + Swift Flurry is good. You shouldget new phrases in no time. You can try out that combo with Torment's Reach. Maybe the cone attack also triggers Swift Flurry? I didn't test it yet. 

 

Duality of Mortal Presence (INT) will be you best ability once you can get it in the "real game". YOu can test it by adding it with the console. It will give your Helwalker +10 INT when havoing 10 wounds - in addition to the 10 MIG.

 

The linger time of the chants will expand like crazy and everything with an AoE and duration will expand, too. Also Dragon Thrashed and Soft Winds profit from the high INT and MIG. And of course your chants' AoE.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[SummerAnne58]

Alright I guess I'll throw my obligatory "is this combo ****e or not post" mainly because I don't want to spend hours in character creator and I can't seem to find up to date abilities/talent info.

 

These combos will most likely use a range weapon, dual pistols because it makes me giddy but could be something else and mainly because I don't like too many characters in melee unless they changed most of the maps to not funnel.

 

1) Paladin(Non Bleak/St. Elcga)/Cipher (Ascendant/Shadowblade) - I've been reading and seeing that indeed Paladin/Shadowblade is decent but leaves me with three people engaged in melee, I'll be using Eder/Pallegina or Eder/Takehu, not sure how that will shake out with getting all melee into range. Ascendant because it actually seems like they could be a midrange dmg dealer/buffer/cc-er but I also heard that Ascendant is better as a single class bummer.

 

2) Paladin (Non Bleak/St. Elcga)/Priest of Berath - A total and complete party buffer and does whatever is necessary to keep the party healthy and standing. I don't really know too much about this combo honestly. (I'm also aware that I put Non-Bleakwalker with Berath >.>)

 

I won't go into why it has to be these as it's just headcannon role playing fluff to me. I suppose I always have single Paladin or the aforementioned Paladin/Shadowblade to fall back on if these ranged don't or can't work well.

Edited April 13, 2018 by SummerAnne58

[TheMetaphysician]

Has anybody tried to build a druid/chanter? I'm trying to figure out how to build Takehu as one. Of course it doesn't help that we don't know what his special subclasses do. The problems is that I'm not seeing a ton of synergy; there are major opportunity cost problems if you have both druid spells and chanter invocations, because there just isn't enough time to cast all those spells.

 

So perhaps it is best to focus on chants? I was thinking of casting the storm spells, then shift and use an offensive chant (soft winds, the weakening chant) when I wade into things; and then have lots of healing (ancient memory, lots of healing spells) from both classes to fall back on when I want to play more of a support role. What do you guys think? Is shifting good even if I'm not playing a shifter?

[SaruNi]

Has anybody tried to build a druid/chanter? I'm trying to figure out how to build Takehu as one. Of course it doesn't help that we don't know what his special subclasses do. The problems is that I'm not seeing a ton of synergy; there are major opportunity cost problems if you have both druid spells and chanter invocations, because there just isn't enough time to cast all those spells.

 

So perhaps it is best to focus on chants? I was thinking of casting the storm spells, then shift and use an offensive chant (soft winds, the weakening chant) when I wade into things; and then have lots of healing (ancient memory, lots of healing spells) from both classes to fall back on when I want to play more of a support role. What do you guys think? Is shifting good even if I'm not playing a shifter?

 

power level 3 - Watershaper Chill Fog

Power level 5 -Watershaper Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp (omg he gets a level 1 wizard spell! and not just any level 1 spell, the worst one!... or is the "Watershaper" version different?)

Power level 7 - Watershaper Blast of Frost

Power level 9 - Watershaper Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar

Edited April 14, 2018 by SaruNi

[SaruNi]

Was able to add the Watershaper versions using the console. They are the same as the wizard spells, except worse, because power level bonus is calculated by the difference between your power level and the spell's power level; Chill Fog goes from a level 1 wizard spell to a level 3 druid spell, and Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp from level 1 wizard spell to level 5 druid spell.

 

Maybe Watershaper gets a passive that boosts these spells? +100 percent frost damage or something?

[dunehunter]

Spell balance is pretty horrible atm.

[dunehunter]

Steel Garrote Lay on hands also does raw DoT on target besides paralysis I feel the five sun/steel garrote paladins are cooler than some subclasses we can pick.

 

Edit: also that Steel Garrote Lay on hand does a bigger raw tick and interrupt target when ended!

Edited April 14, 2018 by dunehunter

[SaruNi]

Steel Garrote Lay on hands also does raw DoT on target besides paralysis I feel the five sun/steel garrote paladins are cooler than some subclasses we can pick.

 

Edit: also that Steel Garrote Lay on hand does a bigger raw tick and interrupt target when ended!

 

I'm hoping at least paladin or priest watchers will be able to switch to Steel Garrote or Woedica respectively at some point in the game. (If Pallegina switched from Five Suns to Kind Wayfarer to Steel Garrote it would be kind of hilarious....) 

[AndreaColombo]

I would expect the Watershaper to get a power level boost with spells that have the Water keyword, and all his bonus spells to have that keyword. Granted, if I’m right but the bonus is just +1 PL, it’s not going to be great.

 

Have you tried adding the Shark Spiritshift form via console to check out its stats?

[dunehunter]

I found the Spiritual Weapon of Woedica, which is.... spiritual fist!! +25% raw lash

[Boeroer]

Why is the raw lash only half of the elemental lashes? With the new PEN system, lashes don't have to overcome AR anyways.

Or am I missing something?

 

So either they didn't understand their own mechanics or they just wanted to be kind since this is an ability for foes.

[dunehunter]

Why is the raw lash only half of the elemental lashes? With the new PEN system, lashes don't have to overcome AR anyways.

Or am I missing something?

 

So either they didn't understand their own mechanics or they just wanted to be kind since this is an ability for foes.

 

Dunno, but the spiritual fist + monk is very strong as it is a enchanted fist that get bonus both from scaling and transcendent suffering

 

It has same basic damage as monk fist, fast weapon, scaling and +25% raw lash.

Edited April 14, 2018 by dunehunter

[AndreaColombo]

Let’s hope non of our enemies are Monk/Priest of Woedica, then! XD

 

Btw, Tekehu is supposed to have a unique Chanter subclass too, but the Codex’s ability lost doesn’t mention it ... Odd.

[Boeroer]

 

Why is the raw lash only half of the elemental lashes? With the new PEN system, lashes don't have to overcome AR anyways.

Or am I missing something?

 

So either they didn't understand their own mechanics or they just wanted to be kind since this is an ability for foes.

Dunno, but the spiritual fist + monk is very strong as it is a enchanted fist that get bonus both from scaling and transcendent suffering

 

It has same basic damage as monk fist, fast weapon, scaling and +25% raw lash.

Ok, that's totally bonkers.

[AndreaColombo]

I think it makes sense. It’s for a Priest—a class that doesn’t have Transcendent Suffering. If it didn’t scale with level, it would be useless unless the Priest was multiclassed with a Monk (and we don’t know that enemies will be.)

 

Then again, if a fist weapon wouldn’t benefit from Transcendent Suffering, that would be weird and inconsistent.

 

At best, *if* Priest of Wordica/Monk was a thing, they could make scaling and Transcendent Suffering mutually exclusive (i.e. only the higher bonus applies.)

Edited April 14, 2018 by AndreaColombo