Thoughts on Ranger and Ranger Subs..

[Ganrich]

Sorry don't have the beta. I personally like the idea of a Ranger/Chanter. I like a fast sniping ranger and also shouting chants. But it wouldn't work as most chants needs to be in melee. If anyone try out a Ranger/Chanter and could give a brief overview of how it plays, that be great.

 

Chanter still has summon invocations, and its phrases need to be within 5m to work on enemies (if it's a Debuff) and/or party members (buffs).  This means if your Phrases are buffs you can sit back a bit, and toss out summons or party buffs with your Invocations pretty easily. 

 

You have 3 Chanter Subclasses: 

 

Beckoner - Summons twice the number of creatures as Invocation normally does.  Those summons are immune to Abjuration from Paladins.  Summons cost 1 less phrase to cast.  They have less health and are smaller than typical Chanter summons

 

Skald -  Offensive invocations cost less to cast.  Weapon Criticals have a 50% chance to gain you a Phrase.  Non-offensive invocations cost 1 more phrase to cast.  Many offensive invocations in the beta are pretty close range.  So it might not be the best choice.

 

Troubadour-  Linger on phrases lasts longer.  Get Brisk Recitation Modal that decreases both chant time and linger time allowing you to build phrases faster.  All Invocations cost 1 more phrase to cast.  Basically, this Chanter focuses more on Chants than Invocations, but its modal allows it to switch to a faster Invocation build time when necessary. 

 

Then you have the base chanter class which works much like PoE1.  One exception is higher level Chants don't have longer cast times than lower level ones.  So, you don't sacrifice you Invocations for a better phrase given the situation in combat. 

 

Then there are 3 Ranger Subclasses:

 

Sharpshooter - Bonus Hit to Crit conversion when attacking targets over 4m away.  Bonus Penetration when attacking targets under 4m away.  They recover slower, and have lower deflection.  This sounds like a good fit for you.

 

Stalker - You and your companion gain bonus Deflection and Armor Rating when they are within 4m of one another.  Bonded Grief kicks in when you and your companion are outside of 7m from one another.  Basically, it's a melee build.

 

Ghost Heart - Immune to Bonded Grief.  Animal Companion is immune to engagement.  Your animal companion is summoned at the beginning of combat (costs you resources and; has a time limit before disappearing).  The animal is considered a spirit and can be effected by Spirit targeting spells.  The animal cannot be healed.

 

Then you have the run of the mill Ranger. 

 

Given your desires, I would look at  Sharpshooter/Beckoner or Sharpshooter/Troubadour.  If you want summons then Beckoner, but if you want more buffs and an occasional spell then Troubadour.   Building your chants as buffs would be best since you'll likely be a bit far back to effect all the baddies with Debuffs.  Skald would be odd, but doable I think.  Most offensive spells mean you have to be closer than a ranger would normally like.  Although there are a few that have a decent cone or large AoE circle. 

 

The sharpshooter bonus's don't imply weapons are required.  So, a Sharpshooter/Skald might be cool.  Close within 4m to use your Invocations to gain bonus Penetration on them, and move back away afterwards to gain bonus that converts some hits to crits.  The Skald also has a 50% chance to gain a Phrase Counter when critting with weapons.  If playing the positioning game is your thing then this might be a possibility. 

 

Of course you want to get the phrase Sure-handed Ila to reduce your ranged attacks and reload speeds.  Chanter/Ranger should be perfectly viable.  I just have a few more builds I want to give a go before I try one personally.  Im looking at both the Sharpshooter/Troubadour and a Skald/Stalker at some point.  An undead themed Ranger/Chanter would work with Ghost Heart/Beckoner.  Basically a NecroArcher type build. 

 

I think the Chanter class plays well with most classes in the multiclass game.  So I don't think you can lose much trying.  These suggestions all look fun to me.

 

PS - My curiosity has gotten the better of me.  Thinking this out has me building a Sharpshooter/Skald to see how that works. 

[WOLFGEIST]

Personally I have 0 interest in a melee ranger outside of some flavored abilities that would use ranger specific weapons like axes and hunting knives.

 

Ideally I'd love to have a micro intensive ranger with all sorts of interesting abilities and utility. Rangers thematically should be trapping experts but traps are somewhat narrow in scope in PoE.

 

I really think we should have various types of shots like crippling, blinding, concussive, etc as well as an AOE "rain of arrows" style attack with hunting/warbows.

 

Imagine a large list of shots you could choose akin to Cipher/Wizard spells. THAT would be great.

 

The interaction between ranger and pet should be more involved than just "both get bonuses if they attack the same dude". There should be coordinated attacks, like where your pet leaps onto an enemy and exposes them for a vulnerable shot (though I realize that not all pets attack like that).

 

Or even a pet ability that quickly exposes an enemy to which you have a small window to land a crippling arrow. That may few way too micro intensive for some but I think it sounds fun.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm being too idealistic/picky.

Edited November 18, 2017 by WOLFGEIST

[Archaven]

@Ganrich

 

Basically i love the Skald but a Range skald. At the moment they kind of made it more for melee. Is there a visual indication of how far is 4m? Basically this will be a guessing game if there's no indication. As for Sharpshooter.. it seems that recover isn't my thing. I'm in favor of high attack speed. Wondering with Sure Handed Ila + Modal Rapid Shot, would it offset enough for a Sharpshooter? I'm ok with lower deflection. My Ranger in PoE has 3 RES and 3 CON anyway.

 

Basically Sharpshooter/Skald suits me better. My aim is fast attack speed and gain as many phrase as possible and spam as many offensive invocations like "At the Sound of His Voice, the Killers Froze Stiff".  Perhaps Barbarian/Chanter would be the best and very very fun to play if carnage contributes in chance of critting.

 

Thanks for the heads up by the way!

Edited November 18, 2017 by Archaven

[jarvs]

Personally I have 0 interest in a melee ranger outside of some flavored abilities that would use ranger specific weapons like axes and hunting knives.

 

Ideally I'd love to have a micro intensive ranger with all sorts of interesting abilities and utility. Rangers thematically should be trapping experts but traps are somewhat narrow in scope in PoE.

 

I really think we should have various types of shots like crippling, blinding, concussive, etc as well as an AOE "rain of arrows" style attack with hunting/warbows.

 

Imagine a large list of shots you could choose akin to Cipher/Wizard spells. THAT would be great.

 

The interaction between ranger and pet should be more involved than just "both get bonuses if they attack the same dude". There should be coordinated attacks, like where your pet leaps onto an enemy and exposes them for a vulnerable shot (though I realize that not all pets attack like that).

 

Or even a pet ability that quickly exposes an enemy to which you have a small window to land a crippling arrow. That may few way too micro intensive for some but I think it sounds fun.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm being too idealistic/picky.

I like this thought process, I don`t get why they don`t add in any short of trap builds. I`m not denying that rangers suck at damage they`re actual pretty good at it. The idea of working with your pet besides Stalker`s Link seems like a great idea but it sounds hard to implement. Also the idea of having multiple shots would be great instead of aiming for who has mark and auto shooting people to death. 

[Ganrich]

@Ganrich

 

Basically i love the Skald but a Range skald. At the moment they kind of made it more for melee. Is there a visual indication of how far is 4m? Basically this will be a guessing game if there's no indication. As for Sharpshooter.. it seems that recover isn't my thing. I'm in favor of high attack speed. Wondering with Sure Handed Ila + Modal Rapid Shot, would it offset enough for a Sharpshooter? I'm ok with lower deflection. My Ranger in PoE has 3 RES and 3 CON anyway.

 

Basically Sharpshooter/Skald suits me better. My aim is fast attack speed and gain as many phrase as possible and spam as many offensive invocations like "At the Sound of His Voice, the Killers Froze Stiff".  Perhaps Barbarian/Chanter would be the best and very very fun to play if carnage contributes in chance of critting.

 

Thanks for the heads up by the way!

 

Nope.  It is definitely a guessing game, BUT some chanter Invocations are in the 2.5 to 5 meter range and you can use them as a point of reference.  Also, the Recovery time increase isn't huge, and Sure-handed Ila and Rapid shot should make up for it for sure.

 

At the Sound of His Voice has a larger cone than the Level 1 damage Invocations.  Also, Hel-Hyraf is in between those two in cone size, and much better in Deadfire than PoE1 IMHO.   It feels more noticeable when you use it.  The play style you're describing works IMHO.  Hel-Hyraf and At the Sound of His Voice are both considered Offensive Invocations and as such are good picks for the Skald. 

 

My testing of the added Penetration on close range (within 4m) Invocations seems to indicate that it doesn't work, but that is fine.  Buff Chants, and Debuff invocations like mentioned above should do fine. 

 

Hearth Orlan racial "Minor threat" = 10% of hits convert to crits.

Sharpshooter - 15% of hits converted to crits with shots outside of 4m (which is where you should be given your deflection). 

I don't know if these stack yet.  Or if they both have a separate chance to proc, but I built this guy as a Hearth Orlan. 

 

Sharpshooter/Skald that focuses on Debuff/CC invocations and buff Chants like Sure-Handed Ila still a great combo IMHO.  You and your Animal Comp do the damages while you can toss out some buff Chants and CC/Debuff enemies as the battle wages.  All the Ranger active abilities would work well with this build IMHO.  There isn't anything that would hamper your style choices that I can see.  Keep in mind that you get weapon proficiencies pretty quickly (you get 3 by the end of the beta at level 7 or so).  So, you can have hunting bow for Rapid Shot, War Bow for Pen Modal, and maybe Xbow for Interrupting big spells (that's what the Xbows modal does and it is worth a quick swap sometimes).  You can focus on the Hunting Bow and use one of the other two when you need them. 

 

No worries.  My 4 favorite PoE classes were Chanter, Ranger, Druid, and Monk.  Chanter being #1, and I really love the facelift Chanters got.  They really mix well with almost every class.  So, IMHO, if you want know if Chanter/X works?  It's probably a yes depending on your Subclasses and talent selections.  My two favorites so far are Skald/Soul Blade (Cipher), and Troubadour/Shifter.  Troubadour Chants work while shifted.  So, you can debuff enemies, build phrases, and melee while Shifted.  Then come back to kith form, drop a druid spell, cast your Invocation and shift again.  Really fun.  Really active playstyle.  Couldn't recommend it more. 

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Ganrich

[hilfazer]

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class. 

 

 

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated.

[Ganrich]

 

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class. 

 

 

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated.

 

 

It being a beta makes me wonder.  The Skald is described as a more frontline style of play.  There is a great deal of missing info in Character Gen. 

 

Example off the top of my head:  No Racial passives listed (it lists attribute bonuses, but not things like Minor Threat for Hearth Orlans).  However, on your character sheet post character generation has Minor Threat listed.  So, CharGen isn't 100% accurate, and this leads me to believe the Character Sheet is more accurate.   I made a Bug post, and will update here when/if I get a response. 

[morhilane]

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class.

 

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated.

 

The chargen is full of missing information/mistakes. The melee crit for Skald is what is said in the Multiclassing II update as well.

[jarvs]

In my opinion Rangers should automatically have heal pet when they start out. it could be easily be replaced with something to spruce the class in general. Instead of relying on sub-classing. 

[cheesevillain]

This is the exact reason rangers need more abilities for themselves.  Pet has enough of them yet the ranger only has one direct offensive ability ( also marked prey technically but its more of a debuff imo) in 5 power levels and its ranged only?  I don't think he needs a bunch but 2-3 to pick from by power level 5 isn't ridiculous.  Plenty of classes that already have that many by power level 3.  I dunno Obsidian will do what they do but the ranger is not in a good place..

 

By level 5, you can have Wounding Shot, Marked Prey, Concussive Shot and Evasive shot. That's 4 offensive abilities. That's more than 2-3.

The Pet has one and only one ability that it uses itself: Takedown.

 

If you want more, the Sharpshooter class basically has an always-on modal ability which switches based on where it's positioned on the battlefield. It's a lot of fun to play.

 

The ranged Ranger is in a great place right now. It's fun to play, and it encourages and rewards cool strategies. Between managing the Ranger & the Pet, it can demand a fair amount of micromanaging as well, so using a Ranger is never boring.

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheesevillain

[cheesevillain]

In my opinion Rangers should automatically have heal pet when they start out. it could be easily be replaced with something to spruce the class in general. Instead of relying on sub-classing. 

 

The base Ranger played with ranged weaponry is a fine class right now. I'd never say no to more options, but it isn't in desperate need of sprucing up.

 

The heal pet ability is exactly the sort of ability they shouldn't do this with because the a lot of people like to pull their focus away from the pet with their ability choices, and because many pet builds will emphasize the pet as a striker, and not as a tank.

[WOLFGEIST]

By level 5, you can have [...] Evasive shot.

 

You sure about that?

[cheesevillain]

Sorry, the ability is called "Evasive Fire". And currently it looks like it's bugged and doesn't work. It is, however, an offensive ability which the Ranger has by level 5.

[jarvs]

I don`t think anyone is questioning the rangers ability at dealing damage because like you said its really good, the problem for me is what the Stalker is meant to do.

[cheesevillain]

I don`t think anyone is questioning the rangers ability at dealing damage because like you said its really good, the problem for me is what the Stalker is meant to do.

 

 

Some people are arguing that the ranged Ranger doesn't have enough offensive abilities, or enough interesting offensive abilities.

 

I think everyone agrees that the Stalker subclass is currently lackluster. It's really conspicuous, especially since a lot of the other subclasses have a lot of polish (except the wizard subs, & a couple of the priests).

[Katarack21]

I don`t think anyone is questioning the rangers ability at dealing damage because like you said its really good, the problem for me is what the Stalker is meant to do.

Oh, no, it's *great* at dealing damage. That's not a problem. But it deals damage via clicking two buttons (marked prey, wounding shot), setting your pet to attack, and just sitting there doing nothing. It's boring as hell, at least to me.

[jarvs]

 

I don`t think anyone is questioning the rangers ability at dealing damage because like you said its really good, the problem for me is what the Stalker is meant to do.

Oh, no, it's *great* at dealing damage. That's not a problem. But it deals damage via clicking two buttons (marked prey, wounding shot), setting your pet to attack, and just sitting there doing nothing. It's boring as hell, at least to me.

Yeah I guess it comes down to personal preference, I to hate how the ranger plays right now and in Poe1, I cant see how people like the low maintenance characters.

[DigitalCrack]

 

I don`t think anyone is questioning the rangers ability at dealing damage because like you said its really good, the problem for me is what the Stalker is meant to do.

Some people are arguing that the ranged Ranger doesn't have enough offensive abilities, or enough interesting offensive abilities.

 

I think everyone agrees that the Stalker subclass is currently lackluster. It's really conspicuous, especially since a lot of the other subclasses have a lot of polish (except the wizard subs, & a couple of the priests).

No, ranger has plenty of ranged abilities and thats the issue. Stalker sub has nothing to utilize for being the melee ranger outside of a passive pet build. Edited November 19, 2017 by DigitalCrack

[Boeroer]

I really don't get why they made Wounding Shot ranged only while it was ranged/melee in PoE1. Just takes away options and makes melee ranger fans angry.

 

What's quite cool though is that Marked Prey can now jump to the next target.

[cheesevillain]

No, ranger has plenty of ranged abilities and thats the issue. Stalker sub has nothing to utilize for being the melee ranger outside of a passive pet build.

 

My apologies. It seems we're in perfect agreement.

 

I really don't get why they made Wounding Shot ranged only while it was ranged/melee in PoE1. Just takes away options and makes melee ranger fans angry.

 

I bet the dev who wrote the ability didn't realize they'd programmed the ability differently in PoE1, and they'll fix this before the game is released.

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheesevillain

[Archaven]

 

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class. 

 

 

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated.

 

 

If it only works for melee, then obsidian is taking out half the fun of the subclass. Why would they even do that other than limiting and "dictate" how players should play their characters?. Hope it's not just melee in the final release.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Archaven

[drchocapic]

Also,as this is a maritime/pirate-themed sequel, we need a Parrot pet.

[morhilane]

 

 

EDIT:  IMPORTANT -  Skald on Character Gen says "Weapon" Damage Crits give 50% chance of building 1 Phrase Counter.  However, on your Character Sheet in game it says "MELEE" weapon Damage.  I would expect the Character Sheet is correct.  So, I would look at Troubadour or a pure Chanter for your build if you aren't into the summoning aspect of the class.

 

I'd expect chargen to be correct. Otherwise a player would feel cheated.

 

 

If it only works for melee, then obsidian is taking out half the fun of the subclass. Why would they even do that other than limiting and "dictate" how players should play their characters?. Hope it's not just melee in the final release.

 

The Skald is meant to use offensive invocations which are melee range cone effects. It's a melee Chanter sub-class. Just like the Stalker is designed as a melee defensive Ranger. You got other sub-class for the other type of characters you want to make.

[jarvs]

Hopefully the changes coming up will allow melee rangers to use WS because without it, there`s no point in playing a melee ranger or picking the subclass. Also with the lack of talents right now there`s no other options to customize the ranger, but that`s a whole other thread on its own. It`s a shame that rangers only rely on Mark and WS to do any damage when there could be more done to diversify the class. Like i said earlier in the thread, if they nerf WS, the class wont have anything to back it up besides the pet which on its own is not interesting.      

[Falk Schütze]

Id like the Ranger to be more like in NWN1/2:

 

- Ranger auto-gains one favoured enemy, per x level:

> Wilder Hunter

> Beast Slayer

> Ghost Hunter

> Sanctifier

> Primal Bane

+ a Ranger specific, enhanced, high level version of each (like the Druids Greater Wildstrike)

 

- Ranger auto-gains either dual wield or marksman special talents, per x level:

> Two Weapon Style etc. (light / medium armor only)

> Marksman etc. (light / medium armor only)

+ a Ranger specific, enhanced, high level version of each (E.g. Epic Two Weapon Style, Epic Marksman)

 

- Animal Companion gains and auto-uses spell-like abilities, per x level:

> Antelope - Invisibility + Sneak Attack

> Bear - Knockdown

> Boar - Frenzy

> Lion - Fear Howl

> Stag - Charge

> Wolf - Fear Howl + Disarm

 

- High Power Level Ranger (single class only) has access to an exotic Animal Companion:

> Raptor Dinosaur Companion - Charge + Knockdown, per x level

> Green Pseudo Dragon Companion - Acid Breath, per x level

> Silver Pseudo Dragon Companion - Ice Breath, per x level