Political Twelve Monkeys

[Amentep]

Previous Thread

 

This thread continues the trend of all things political, this time with more tax tables.

 

 

 

Simplified version of Finnish income taxation for single individual without kids
 
Brackets for progressive state income tax

 
Addition to state income tax everybody pays flat municipality tax 16.5-23% depending on municipality where individual lives
 
And progressive Public broadcasting tax

 
Some examples (all examples use my home municipality's tax rate 19.5%):
Tax rate for income of 10000€ is 0% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 0.0€.
Tax rate for income of 15000€ is 2.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 366.21€.
Tax rate for income of 20000€ is 8.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 1626.43€.
Tax rate for income of 35000€ is 18.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 6417.01€.
Tax rate for income of 60000€ is 27.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 16353.41€.
Tax rate for income of 100000€ is 35.0% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 34534.88€.
Tax rate for income of 350000€ is 44.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 155075.43€.
Tax rate for income of 5000000€ is 48% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 2389324.87€.
 
Basic deductions consists of things like employment pension contributions and unemployment insurance contributions, which are seen as income deductions when it comes to paying taxes.
 
VAT in Finland is currently for most goods 24%, 14% for foods and 10% for books, magazines, cultural services and medicine. Alcohol and fuels and some other things have special product specific extra tax.

[ShadySands]

Catalonia’s leaders are jailed a week after the region declared independence

 

Not sure this is the best path

[Volourn]

Nazis will Nazi.  Spain is just another NK and Russia. Evil to the core.

[injurai]

Catalonia’s leaders are jailed a week after the region declared independence

 

Not sure this is the best path

 

I'm actually a bit ignorant on the history of Catalan's politics. Are they being yanked around by wealthier regions of Spain? Making this like Scotland's desires for independence? Or is this more a move of a wealthy region trying to cut and run?

 

The west seems pretty silent with regards to this bid for liberty. Not much in support or denouncement, I feel like there should chatter be more one way or the other.

 

Other than it being clear that the people are forming solidarity behind the movement, who are the driving leaders and forces, what is the end goal?

[majestic]

Catalonia is one of the wealthier regions of Spain, but they don't really stand to gain much from any independence as far as I'm aware. Especially since they'd lose EU membership, and from what I've read on the news some companies and banks have already cut bait after the referendum.

 

The actual cause goes back a ways what with fascist Spain actively trying to repress Catalonian culture, but I'm sure 213374U can give you more details on the matter.

 

The EU is behind the Spanish central government, so no, there won't be any rustling, let alone chatter - for various reasons. Unless it's not in any EU region and can be rubbed into the face of the "bad guys" (Kosovo and Serbia) we can't have a region seceeding, imagine what that would do to other regions in Europe, e.g. northern Italy - Lega Nord is already actively lobbying for more autonomy - or the entire hoohaw in the Ukraine. Accepting an illegal referendum would instantly legitimize Putin's annexion of Crimea.

 

Although to be honest as an outside I enjoy Rajoy making an ass of himself. I hate that guy any everything he stands for with a passion. As far as I'm concerned every EPP member can go to hell.

Edited November 2, 2017 by majestic

[Elerond]

Catalonia is one of the riches parts of Spain. 

 

There isn't black and white answers to Catalonia's independence aspirations. Way how Catalonia's leaders went with their referendum and declaration of independence was anything but good democratic process. But also Spain's central government hasn't acted like constitutional state when it comes to this issue.

[ShadySands]

From what I understand the last few times they've voted for independence it has passed but with low voter turnout. The regional government has voted for it as well but I guess since there are no provisions for secession in the Spanish constitution any and all votes are deemed illegal. Numbers or someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong

 

PS I have no idea if the majority are in support of independence or if it's just a vocal minority but as they seem to be seeking a peaceful break it's never going to happen because as you can see from the Spanish reaction they aren't going to just let them go

Edited November 2, 2017 by ShadySands

[Elerond]

I spent a week in Catalonia in September. All the local media reported that polls say that support for independence and support for staying in Spain were even, but you could not tell that from street scene, as there you only saw banners, posters and flags that said vote for independence. And lots of people had Catalonia flag hanging out from their window or balcony. Meaning that there was no stay in Spain campaign or people showing support for being part of Spain by hanging out Spanish flag. And it was same all over Catalonia (Barcelona, Tarragona, Salou, Falset and some smaller towns that I visited). Meaning that it didn't look like that they were readying towards referendum where result is excepted to be very even. Which indicates that people's ability to campaign for staying in Spain wasn't in level that it should be in democratic referendum. Observation which is supported by fact that people supporting staying as part of Spain boycott referendum (less than 50% of Catalanian's voted) and then vote in Catalonia's parliament opponents of independence left before the vote.

 

But I also have problems with Spain's central governments attitude dismiss any possibility for independency and their heavy handed operations to prevent referendum vote.

[213374U]

Nazis will Nazi.  Spain is just another NK and Russia. Evil to the core.

It's funny because the law that was to underpin the referendum didn't get enough votes in Catalonia's parliament (72 out of the necessary 90), but the Catalan president went ahead with it anyway. So the referendum was illegal not only under Spanish law, but technically under Catalan law as well.

 

And then last week they went ahead and declared independence with a full 38% of voters' support. Much popular. Such democracy. Wow.

 

Nazis will nazi, Volourn will Volourn.

 

 

 

Catalonia is one of the wealthier regions of Spain, but they don't really stand to gain much from any independence as far as I'm aware. Especially since they'd lose EU membership, and from what I've read on the news some companies and banks have already cut bait after the referendum.

 

The actual cause goes back a ways what with fascist Spain actively trying to repress Catalonian culture, but I'm sure 213374U can give you more details on the matter.

 

The EU is behind the Spanish central government, so no, there won't be any rustling, let alone chatter - for various reasons. Unless it's not in any EU region and can be rubbed into the face of the "bad guys" (Kosovo and Serbia) we can't have a region seceeding, imagine what that would do to other regions in Europe, e.g. northern Italy - Lega Nord is already actively lobbying for more autonomy - or the entire hoohaw in the Ukraine. Accepting an illegal referendum would instantly legitimize Putin's annexion of Crimea.

 

Although to be honest as an outside I enjoy Rajoy making an ass of himself. I hate that guy any everything he stands for with a passion. As far as I'm concerned every EPP member can go to hell.

Basically this.

 

Catalan (and Basque, and Navarre) hardcore independence movements have always been marginal. There is a strong nationalist sentiment in those regions, but people in general don't really want to secede. The whole thing is a result of political buggery going back... decades. In Spain, major left- and right-wing parties have always required the support of smaller nationalist parties in order to pass their budgets and have a modicum of parliamentary stability. This has resulted in the aforementioned regions enjoying "preferential treatment" especially in fiscal matters (Basque country and Navarra actually have their own fiscal rules, grounded in historical privileges dating back to the 19th century and preserved for political expediency reasons, which now the Catalans want as well). This understandably is a source of tensions with the rest of -unprivileged- regions.

 

Fast forward to 2006, the Catalan Parliament passed a new autonomy law giving themselves the same fiscal prerogatives as any other region, and established their right to collect their own taxes, among other things. This law required a referendum in Catalonia for ratification, which also passed. Then-minority leader Rajoy counterattacked with some exquisitely hypocritical antics, and by raising a constitutionality question, which resulted in the law's most important articles being declared unconstitutional, and therefore null and void, four years later by the extremely politicized Constitutional Court.

 

After that, and especially after Rajoy's electoral victory, the secessionist movement has been growing stronger and bolder, not necessarily because people in Catalonia want to secede but mostly because they ****ing hate Rajoy's guts and his party of mafiosi and SS larpers and what they stand for, and apparently separatists are the only ones not in bed with them (even though they were until, like, yesterday).

 

So, against a background of economic depression, in one camp you have a bunch of wannabe fascists crying bloody murder because the very law they have zero interest in changing has been offended, and in the other you have a gang of opportunistic crooks (the guy now hiding in Belgium belongs to a party that has been one of the most dependable partners in crime of the party now in power in Spain) on a power trip about how the law doesn't apply to them anyway because "the people" are behind them. Only not really. Both, of course, thoroughly corrupt.

 

TL:DR this is really about gangsters fighting over money, and Spaniards are stupid as ****, on both sides of the Catalan border.

Edited November 3, 2017 by 213374U

[Namutree]

Osama Bin Laden liked anime, including Naruto.

 

That is all.

[Agiel]

Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

 

Honestly baffling that either they didn't have parents who told them "I go down to the mines so that when you grow up you don't have to" or they were too thick in the head not to listen. 

[Malcador]

Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

 

Honestly baffling that either they didn't have parents who told them "I go down to the mines so that when you grow up you don't have to" or they were too thick in the head not to listen.

Hope makes people stupid sometimes

[Amentep]

There's probably no other jobs in Appalachia that the mine workers could be retrained in that would offer the same money that mine working could.  So the choice is retrain and move or make do and wait.

 
And while Appalachia has a history of people moving out to find better jobs going at least back into the 1940s, a lot of people choose to wait.

[redneckdevil]

It's beautiful up there.....but there ain't **** to do anywhere really. When I lived up there, my town was well off compared to the ones around in that we had TWO gas stations, a Sonic's, and a Walmart..

Wanted to go to the mall? That's 2 and half hour drive. The only businesses really are mill work and Walmart.

Anyone see wind river? Think of that but minus alot of the snow. Again, there ain't **** to do. You want something else then u have to move, but then where is that money gonna come from?

[Guard Dog]

Bowe Bergdhal has been sentenced. No prison time. Reduced to Private, fine 10 months pay and a dishonorable discharge from the Army. Seems right to me. I vomited in my mouth a little when Obama called this miserable disgrace a hero. https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-bergdahl-judge-resumes-deliberations-friday-133637560.html

[ShadySands]

Trump administration releases report finding ‘no convincing alternative explanation’ for climate change

The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law, despite the fact that its findings sharply contradict the administration’s policies. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea level rise as high as 8 feet by the year 2100, and enumerates myriad climate-related damages across the United States that are already occurring due to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.

 

I dunno why I always get a line of blank space in my quotes if I don't post it in BBCode Mode.

 

PS  re:Trump calling on the FBI and Justice Dept to investigate DNC-Clinton collusion. Wasn't this already settled in a lawsuit brought by Sanders supporters where the DNC lawyers successfully argued that it doesn't matter as the DNC can pick the candidate it wants regardless of anything else?

Edited November 3, 2017 by ShadySands

[Hurlshort]

Remember when people got upset about the IRS targeting conservatives under Obama? The new tax code literally named Stephen Curry, who had a little twitter spat with the President earlier in the summer. Good to see them taking the high road.  

[Volourn]

Uh? You know this is Donald Trump right? This is a guy - despite his billions - who became truly famous by making a show where he literally told them were 'fired' on live tv. LMAO

 

There is no high road.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Volourn

[Darkpriest]

Could anyone knowing Deutsch tell the details on it:

 

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article170210421/Der-Feind-in-unseren-Reihen.html

 

the only English based text i've found while googling is on Breitbart - perhaps someone have found something on this on more "reknown" media outlets?

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/02/berlin-police-instructor-muslim-recruits-enemy-ranks/

 

I wonder if there is anything being reported/done around this currently

Edited November 4, 2017 by Darkpriest

[majestic]

Could anyone knowing Deutsch tell the details on it:

 

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article170210421/Der-Feind-in-unseren-Reihen.html

 

the only English based text i've found while googling is on Breitbart - perhaps someone have found something on this on more "reknown" media outlets?

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/02/berlin-police-instructor-muslim-recruits-enemy-ranks/

 

I wonder if there is anything being reported/done around this currently

 

The audio recording in question is genuine (i.e. from an actual police academy instructor). Sadly the Welt article is behind a paywall but quotes and repostings seem to infer that there are various problems with the students, ranging from a lack of respect and sleeping in class to being part of mafia clans.

 

This isn't the first time that particular academy showed up in the news, reports like this come every now and then. Some of the older ones were fake, this one is more substantial due to the voice mail of an actual instructor. The police union commented that they're worried about instructors being threatened but nobody ever comes forward so they can't help.

 

It's also interesting to note that this type of information seems to always come from a third party. So either the instructors are even more scared of their superiors (or the union) than they are of their problematic students or it's another case of racism in the police force. Most likely a mix of both*, and it's excacerbated by the fact that the police force has had problems filling its ranks for a while now (and not just in Germany, anyway).

 

*Honestly, I can see why. The voice mail is the quintessential racist diatribe, the only thing it lacks is an opening disclaimer stating "I'm no racist but...".

[Guard Dog]

The New Yorker ran a nice piece on Tulsi Gabbard D-Hawaii. Of all the Democrats in Congress she is one of the more libertarian members. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/what-does-tulsi-gabbard-believe

[Maedhros]

Gabbard seems more sensible than most politicians (from what I've read).

[injurai]

Gabbard seems more sensible than most politicians (from what I've read).

 

At this point I want either Gabbard or Sanders for 2020.

 

Though Ideally it might be Sanders up first, then Gabbard following up in 2024.

 

If they squared off I'm not sure who I'd pick, it also depends on what congress is looking like. I'd rather have Gabbard if things aren't sufficiently blue.

[HoonDing]

Trump will need a good nickname for when Gabbard runs in 2020.

Tootsie Tulsi?

[Guard Dog]

Trump will need a good nickname for when Gabbard runs in 2020.

 

Tootsie Tulsi?

 

  If he did and no one stopped him then you'll know his staff has given up.