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Class-combos that may have a lot of synergy.


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#1
anameforobsidian

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I was looking at the class list, and I think some subclasses may have a lot of synergy together. Here's some ideas I had.

Barbarian / Ascendant Cipher - You're constantly building ****loads of focus with carnage and soul-whip is always affecting carnage.

Troubadin - This is a one man tank / buff machine. A lot of the good chanter buffs aren't at the max levels, and this is true with Paladins. More than one would probably turn a melee party into a shredding machine.

Skald / Rogue - Crit as much as possible to gain phrases. Dragon Thrashed plus deep wounds could be a very nasty combo.

Shifter + Any melee class - Wildform with extra abilities. It'll be interesting to see how many abilities work in wildform.

Devoted / Rogue - I can see someone devoted to stillettos just murdering mobs. Plus, a beefier rogue is always nice.

#2
draego

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I was looking at the class list, and I think some subclasses may have a lot of synergy together. Here's some ideas I had.

Barbarian / Ascendant Cipher - You're constantly building ****loads of focus with carnage and soul-whip is always affecting carnage.

Troubadin - This is a one man tank / buff machine. A lot of the good chanter buffs aren't at the max levels, and this is true with Paladins. More than one would probably turn a melee party into a shredding machine.

Skald / Rogue - Crit as much as possible to gain phrases. Dragon Thrashed plus deep wounds could be a very nasty combo.

Shifter + Any melee class - Wildform with extra abilities. It'll be interesting to see how many abilities work in wildform.

Devoted / Rogue - I can see someone devoted to stillettos just murdering mobs. Plus, a beefier rogue is always nice.

 

I think we have yet to learn what powers synergize with each other. We know carnage and sneak attack wont work together. I wouldn't be surprise if carnage and soul whip dont work together but maybe. It would be a nice update with this kind of information maybe not until the beta will players see what can and cannot stack together



#3
Climhazzard

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I was thinking about using a Troubadin with a Beckoner/ranger, the Troubadin would provide defensive buffs to keep all the summons alive and the Beckoner/ranger would provide offensive buffs for himself, his pet, and his summons.

 

There are probably a lot of combinations that might work well, kind of hard to know without getting in game though.  

 

Using monk as an example, let's just say that transcendent suffering upgrades with power level.  Multi class goes up to 7, while pure goes up to 9, so something like a 23% loss in damage.  What kind of combinations could make up for the loss?

 

Monk-Barbarian:  A fistful of carnage?  Maybe this guy would go with an AoE focused build.  The base damage from a multi classed monk's fists might be worse than using regular weapons on a pure barbarian though.  Still you'd have access to monk options like force of anguish and iron wheel, not to mention regular weapons.

 

Monk-Devoted: You'll no longer be relying on transcendent suffering unless Devoted can specialize in unarmed.  However you'll become weapon based and gain constant recovery which would be great for monks as well as access to other fighter talents like disciplined barrage, Unbending, armored grace, unbroken, etc..

 

Monk-Troubadour: With 3rd Tier fire phrases you could be a fearsome fire monk, you need enough intelligence to run both Dragon Thrashed and Mith Fyr.

 

Monk-Soul Blade: Soul whip should make up for the loss of transcendent suffering power level, but now you can do cool cipher things, like amplified wave and apparently a soul annihilation attack...

 

Monk-Shifter: hard to say if any monk talents would work in animal form.  Ironwheel could be helpful if it did, you could dump your wounds on high cost abilities between shifts while Ironwheel keeps you alive longer in animal form.  All depends on what does or doesn't work with animal form.

 

Monk-Priest: Spells like Devotions for the Faithful and Spark the souls of the righteous might make up your own damage loss for multi classing, and you can share them.

 

Shattered Pillar-Trickster:  Sneak attacks should make up for your damage loss, Illusion spells make you harder to hit.  A true "shadowdancer".

 

Monk-Wizard:  Probably a lot of options here, whether effective or not is hard to say yet.  You'd be able to use martial power and defensive spells with shattered pillar...  or pick a focus to play a more survivable wizard with stuff like iron wheel and force of anguish.

 

Some of these combos will surely have a rougher start than just using a regular monk, with chanter you'd be waiting for your fire abilities, with priest you'd really want 4th level spells.  Some of them would be great right out of the box though, like a devoted-monk.


Edited by Climhazzard, 30 September 2017 - 04:33 PM.


#4
blotter

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The unbroken and streetfighter subclasses might blend well together, with the latter dealing more damage while surrounded and the former making it more dangerous for enemies to disengage once they've entered the fray. The lower Stride (which I assume pertains to movement speed) may be a bit undesirable for a rogue, but since fighter abilities that involve dragging enemies are apparently a more pronounced part of their repertoire in this game, maybe that'll make up for it.

 

Helwalker might pair well with streetfighter since both are likely to want to be in the thick of things and they'll become all the more dangerous while bloodied. Lifegiver, while not exactly synergistic with helwalker, may work well with the monk subclass since it'll make them better at patching themselves up and thereby compensate for the increased incoming damage while wounded. Helwalker plus shifter sounds like a more interesting combo to me what with the post-Spiritshift healing, but Boeroer's probably right about Transcendent Suffering not working with Spiritshift and that substantially diminishes the incentive to use them together as far as I'm concerned.

 

The priest of Wael's access to illusion spells allows them to trigger the assassin subclass' benefit more reliably, which (strangely enough) probably makes them a better fit for the assassin subclass than priests of Skaen. That said, the illusionist subclass would probably be even better alongside assassin given Reflexive Mirror to break out Mirror Images the first time they're hit and the fact that the illusion spells they'll cast will benefit from a bonus to effective power level.

 

Evoker and sharpshooter might play well together if the latter's benefit applies to spells, though slower actions may be a heavy price to pay if it also increases spellcasting time. Sharpshooter's probably better with assassin since ranged attacks make the ambushes that assassins specialize in easier to perform and fighting from a distance may improve their chance of rendering the assassin's damage vulnerability moot.

 

If Flames of Devotion generates Focus, a paladin + soul blade might be able to alternate between FoD and Soul Annihilation to consistently spike their damage output. Since bleak walkers boost their FoD further with Remember Rakkhan Field, they might work particularly well for this.



#5
MaxQuest

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Barbarian / Ascendant Cipher - You're constantly building ****loads of focus with carnage and soul-whip is always affecting carnage.

It was mentioned that carnage will not generate focus in Deadfire.
Actually carnage doesn't generate focus in PoE1, if you add it via console, as well.
On the other hand wizard's Blast - does. And FoD as well - as this is a modifier to existing attack.

 

Edit: I have retested the striked-through part, scroll-down for the actual results in v3.06.


Edited by MaxQuest, 06 October 2017 - 12:43 AM.

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#6
Boeroer

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If Blast does :what about Torment's Reach and Turning Wheel? Think about Shattered Pillar + Ascendant. ;)

#7
Climhazzard

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I feel like skills that spend resource probably won't generate it, or shouldn't.  Which would rule out Torment's Reach, though not Turning Wheel.  Sounds kind of broken though if Turning Wheel can generate resource.  Couldn't retaliation builds originally generate focus in PoE which was nerfed out of existance?  My guess is it won't work.

 

TBH I have the sinking feeling the balance in this game will be broken in a hundred different ways on release, lol.


Edited by Climhazzard, 02 October 2017 - 10:25 AM.


#8
Madscientist

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MaxQuest, you have written that carnage does not generate focus, but blast does.

Does carnage+blast work? This would create a permanent heart of fury.

Well, this combination sounds so OP that it will most likely not work in PoE2, even if it works in PoE1.

 

 

EDIT:

I just realized that carnage works only for melee attacks and blast works only for implements (ranged).

So no need to worry here.


Edited by Madscientist, 03 October 2017 - 11:50 AM.


#9
MaxQuest

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If Blast does :what about Torment's Reach and Turning Wheel?

MaxQuest, you have written that carnage does not generate focus, but blast does.

Sorry for the confusion guys. I have retested it just now. And either things have changed (cause I definitely was considering a citzal cipher for focus generation), or my memory didn't serve me.

In PoE1 v3.06 (tested on 4th oct 2017):
- Damage from carnage DOES generate focus (and yes, this works only with melee weapons)
- Damage from blast (talent) DOESN'T generate focus.
- Damage from blast (Citzal's spirit lance) DOESN'T generate focus.
- Damage from Kalakoth's Minor Blights (which hits everyone in AoE) DOES generate focus (have hit 4 enemies? get focus for each)

- Extra damage from Turning Wheel DOES generate focus.
- Torment's Reach (after the fix, it's no longer recursive): you get focus as if you would make a Full-Attack vs main target only. Bonus crush damage DOES increase focus gain. Turning Wheel bonus damage is applied as well.

Regarding Citzal + Carnage:
- each carnage hit generates blast AoE. e.g: you hit 1 target with 2 adjacent enemies: 1 hit + 2 carnage hits + 6 blast hits.

Regarding Citzal + Carnage + HoF:
- I just found that HoF AoE is fixed 2m, and it doesn't scale with INT.
- having 1000 INT, and using HoF on a target with 2 adjacent enemies (4m afar) - results in the same outcome as just making an auto-attack swing as above (i.e. 1 hit + 2 carnage hits + 6 blast hits).
- but yes, if they were close together, that should be 3 hits + 6 carnage hits + 18 blast hits (will test it later via console spawning, just to be 100% sure)

Edited by MaxQuest, 04 October 2017 - 02:14 AM.

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#10
Madscientist

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Even if you assume that carnage does not work with most other class specific talents, a barbarian/mage sounds very powerful.

 

level1: concelhauts drainigs staff + carnage (hit all enemies around you with an exceptional draining weapon)

endgame: heart of fury + combusting flames (or wounds? not sure about the name, the spell where the target gets fire damage when it gets hit)

 

Even if you assume that you have only a few spells and barbaric abilities and only low level spells, this sounds still nice.

If you have lv6 spells, citadels martial power sounds nice (+acc, +def and +stats but you cannot cast spells, not a big downside if you do not have many spells anyway but you have a good weapon and carnage.


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#11
MaxQuest

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Yeap, it indeed can be a dps powerhouse.
And with per-encounter Arcane Veil, Llengrath package and Repulsive Visage it will also be quite sturdy. 
 
The only minus is that, such barb/wizard would get
- Citzal's Spirit Lance on lvl 13 (compared to lvl 9 pure-class)
- Heart of Fury on lvl 16 (compared to lvl 11 pure-class)

On the other hand, we can take a pure-class hireling up to level x (if need be), and then swap it with a multi-class one if full-respec won't be available).

#12
Mechalibur

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I'm wondering how good an implement focused wizard/ranger (sharpshooter?) would be. Blast with driving flight could be fun.



#13
Boeroer

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Since implements can now be dual wielded I guess pretty good. With The Golden Gaze and Swift Aim + Driving Flight a ranger already was quite nice - until you hit lvl 13 and desperately wanted Twinned Arrows...

#14
morhilane

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In POE2, Blast is a modal tied to Rod Weapon Proficiency. You don't even need to multiclass...

Saying that, it wouldn't surprise me if Driving Flight was also turned into such a modal. They need 29 of them...

These are one I know off:
Rod: Blast
Scepter: Dangerous Implement
Hunting Bow: Rapid Shot (renamed Swift Aim?)
War bow: Power Shot
Estoc: Vulnerable Attack

#15
FlintlockJazz

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I hope this time rods will be actual rods, walking stick -sized rods instead of whatever they were meant to be in PoE.  Like the rods in the picture below.

b0bc933b6bddc19054220176ca088737--rpg-it

Though in PoE2 I would envision them as slender metal things to distinguish them from sceptres, tapering to a point that you point with while holding it by the thicker end. 


Edited by FlintlockJazz, 06 October 2017 - 06:09 AM.


#16
MaxQuest

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These are one I know off:
Rod: Blast
Scepter: Dangerous Implement
Hunting Bow: Rapid Shot (renamed Swift Aim?)
War bow: Power Shot
Estoc: Vulnerable Attack

Ehh, Blast would be more effective with Wand or Sceptre, since these are x1.5 faster, plus Blast damage does not depend of weapon's base damage.
And Dangerous Implement would be better with Sceptre, since it has higher base damage, and lower attack rate - hence less health loss.
And if Rapid Shot = ex Swift Aim, and Power Shot = ex Penetrating Shot, these could be swapped for max-efficiency as well.

But I guess Josh did this on purpose  :grin:

 

P.S. Having Blast tied to rods,... rules out Kalakoth's MInor Blights...


Edited by MaxQuest, 06 October 2017 - 07:11 AM.


#17
morhilane

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Going by this FX video, Kalakoth's Minor Blights still have an AOE effect around the target in Deadfire.

 

I think a lots of stuff was moved around and retooled, so trying to make "combos" in Deadfire based on POE1 might be a bit pointless.


Edited by morhilane, 06 October 2017 - 07:29 AM.


#18
Boeroer

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Minor Blights do have an AoE effect of course, but in PoE1 every hit from that AoE created a seperate Blast. That's what makes the Blights so powerful.
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#19
MaxQuest

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Boeroer already mentioned the main point forte.

I think a lots of stuff was moved around and retooled, so trying to make "combos" in Deadfire based on POE1 might be a bit pointless.

Well, what else can we theorycraft about?)
Plus such discussions may point to the devs (if they check these forums) apriori OP or weak combos.

#20
morhilane

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Well, what else can we theorycraft about?)


Theorycraft the 29 modals for the weapon proficiency?




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