What makes Deadfire beautiful to me

[SonicMage117]

As someone pointed out in another thread, the first Pillars Of Eternity was all about clearing out areas, another person said that the map wasn't interesting and was more or less a flipped version of Baldur's Gates map (not meaning that it was a clone, but rather that the wooded area was nothing we haven't seen before).

 

That said, Deadfire seems to be the opposite... with a deep focus on exploration (finally!), immersion and non-linear way of play with many options.

 

How many times have I wished for an isometric rpg like this that allows me to do the very things which Josh Sawyer describes you can in Deadfire?

 

The islands give a different feel than the muted forests pallete and breathes life into the Crpg genre. I think this will be a nice change and somehow will be more welcoming to new fans who have never played or heard of Pillars Of Eternity before.

 

All this makes Deadfire a beauty to me and I can't wait to see what else Obsidian has in store for us in the world of Deadfire!

 

So how about you? What makes you drawn to Deadfire? What makes you see it as unique or beautiful? Hope you are as excited about it as I am!

Edited June 21, 2017 by SonicMage117

[Quillon]

First of all its crowdfunding done right: They have used crowdfunding again to increase the successful first game's budget, scope up the game not to mention the technological leap unlike some other devs who crowdfund their sequels & make them in the same confines they made the first game in. 

 

Second; what Adam(or Andy :D) says in the thank you video between 0:45-1:25 + crew system.

 

Third; all the design parallels between Deadfire & New Vegas.

[injurai]

Much of what draws me to Deadfire is present in Pillars. Is it worth waxing poetics or giving an ode to this particular style of crpg to a forum dedicated to it? I'll try to cut to brass tax because I could write a short book on the matter.

 

I guess Deadfire simply represents a further evolution of something good. Pillars turned out to be a fantastic "carrying of the torch" for a style of game that subsided too early and for too long. Pillars itself represents a sort of "sweet spot" and I mean so across multiple dimensions. It resurrected the infinity-style rpg at the right time. It renovated the underlying systems so as to tailored to the medium; No longer beholden to pnp-based design. Thus Pillars overcame the grognard miasma which ultimately prevented this style of game from rising beyond it's DnD roots. It brought back pre-rendered backgrounds giving us near AAA production values on a barely AA budget, and Deadfire is really pushing these production values to the max. A new IP ripe with all sorts of freedoms that most games never get to see. All of this and much more were done to great effect. Just as Pillars took an honest and constructive look at what came before, Deadfire does the same to Pillars. It's a game by people who love this sort of game, want to work on this sort of game, want to make the ultimate game of this sort and share it with the world.

 

Not a moment goes by in Pillars where I'm not either entirely immersed in the world or find myself sitting back and appreciating the craft that went into it. The beautiful environments, writing, score, or mechanics. It's a game that just grows and grows on you.

 

In many ways this series is the culmination and a repository of the many sage lessons that a generation of fantastic game developers has learned over their careers. At the same time it's a crowd-funded project, so it piggy backs on a communal pool of wisdom and knowledge from passionate fans. Ultimately what seals the deal for me is the world building and the narrative themes. They all shine through because the technical and artistic work is fantastic. As a result there is a payoff from just taking in the world the alone. Not just quest rewards, but that feeling when you as the player feel changes in yourself. Growing knowledgeable about this world that you are virtually inhabiting. This world feels alive.

 

I think I have to agree with you on the grounds of exploration. Many years ago I was in club that explored topics of computer science, and we had a game design sequence. We played around with the Neverwinter Night 2 engine. We talked about the different types of gamers, and what they value. I'm forgetting the categories but I put myself into the explorer category. I just love discovering all aspects of a world. Whether it's macro level lore and culture or seeing how events unfolded (even in-game historic ones), or discovering physical locations. Deadfire seems to be turning exploration up to 11, by literally making it about exploring of course! Deadfire seems to be moving towards a convergence of gameplay systems that I can't really say any other game has quite pulled off before.

 

At the same time, Obsidian is a business and this is a consumer product. Part of what made Pillars so successful is how Obsidian handles themselves. Here we have their first sequel and their first owned IP. It really is something for them to be proud of. One thing that has struck me is just how much goodwill Obsidian produces. Goodwill doesn't just come out of thin air, it's something that has to be strived for, maintained, created, celebrated. It's a way of choosing to operate. Whether it be Feargus, Josh, Adam, or the long list of other great members of the team, there is a passion and excitement that underlies the reality of their hard work. We all have to go through life, and surely game development can be at times thankless, but you can tell that their goodwill bleeds through. Maybe it's because part of developing good rpgs is having respect for the player. Respecting their intelligence, but also their human limitations. Where ever it comes from, this team has it it droves!

 

Lastly. Despite PoE1 being beautiful. The 3d models are rough. The beautiful scenes are static. Combat can be cluttered. For those that aren't drawn in from the eye-appeal alone, they may be missing out. Deadfire looks much easier to sell to people, so I can't wait to use it as a carrot on a stick to help get people into the first game who haven't considered taking the dive into it. Many a times has a sexy sequel made me get into a series I had previously passed on, only for me to fall in love.

Edited June 21, 2017 by injurai

[Sedrefilos]

What I like about what I've seen in DF is that the team knows what was not so good in Pillars (because nothing was really bad to begin with ) and are improving upon it. It was obvious, tbh, from the White March expansion so I pretty much expected most of the new aspects of the game. What I didn't expect, though, is the "open" world exploration system which is a great thing imo. I liked the Pillars exploration style but I think this is much better. 

 

What excites me most is that I'm gonna play a game that checks every box in my crpg list

[anameforobsidian]

I don't like all the changes they're making, but I see a lot of positives.  I think the new buffs/debuffs/counters and area map will work well.  I think dual-class will create some crazy fun characters.  And best of all are the graphical improvements.  They make the game downright gorgeous, where it was merely beautiful before.

Edited June 21, 2017 by anameforobsidian

[rjshae]

I'm looking forward to seeing the new skills system. The conglomerated skills approach in PoE just never felt right, regardless of how mathematically correct it may seem.

[Wormerine]

There is an underlying theme in Deadfire and, if I am reading it right, it might be something to be really excited about:

When I think of isometric RPGs I see two different categories. There are quite confined and heavily directed stories, told with a limited but polished gameplay mechanics. Very Bioware style. A good modern example of that would be Witcher3 - while a big game, it was also a game with a limited interaction with the world and its characters, but with good writing and well designed quests. 

 

Then there are more systemic driven RPGs. Games like Fallout and Fallout2 had interesting world and characters, but it was a very open experience and ways of solving quests, wouldn't come from heavily scripted missions, but from vast mechanics game had. While those games didn't have those immediately appealing setpieces and maybe pacing was a bit off, I found them so very much engaging and memorable.
 

Mechanical depth Obsidian seems to be adding to the game (better stealth, world map, pickpocketing, backward pickpocketing, companion relationship system, freedom of exploration, better faction system?), gives me hope that Deadfire will move a bit towards being "a systemic" RPG. If that is true, to me it is very exciting.

[Messier-31]

 

What makes Deadfire beautiful to me

 

The premise, cos it's not ready yet

[Archaven]

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

[rjshae]

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

[Archaven]

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Yeah that's true. I did backed deadfire as i'm willing to give it a go. But my preference are medieval fantasy like LOTR and stuff :D.

[injurai]

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

 

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Another way I think PoE really hit a sweet spot. An age were it's still common to see old alongside new. Pillars finds it's heritage in BG1 and IWD1, then rethinks what a magical world might look like moving into a higher age. It opens up a lot more thematically to play with. But while the Age of Sail is well explored by the team, that is more for world building as opposed to anything directly related to the critical path.

Edited June 22, 2017 by injurai

[anameforobsidian]

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Pillars in general is post-Medieval, as you point out.  Another hint is the way Caed-Nua is called an old-style fortress; fortresses were redesigned to resist cannons.  However, as a History teacher who teaches this exact subject to unimpressionable young minds; we have a problem integrating Histories of multiple locations or intuitively seeing history as a gradual change.  Unless educated in it, we tend to see history in a linear progression of:

 

Medieval = everything bad (food sucked and plague was everywhere, including in your shoes).

Then the Renaissance = Books and **** made people think again and make pretty art.

After that the Age of Exploration = Columbus and a bunch of dudes colonized all of America at once and killed the Native Americans with their super-technology.

 

When in reality Shakespeare wrote about colonization in the Tempest; Renaissance militia used a mix of guns and pikes; and that platemail coexisted with guns for a long time.  Perhaps most interesting is how violent, superstitious, greedy, and downright medieval most of the explorers were.  My favorite primary source of all time is an account of Sir Francis Drake's Journeys where the author talks about robbing churches, eating penguins, and stealing the fire****ter.

[AndreaColombo]

Romances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/TROLLFACE

[Quillon]

What have the romances ever done for us?

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Pillars in general is post-Medieval, as you point out.  Another hint is the way Caed-Nua is called an old-style fortress; fortresses were redesigned to resist cannons.  However, as a History teacher who teaches this exact subject to unimpressionable young minds; we have a problem integrating Histories of multiple locations or intuitively seeing history as a gradual change.  Unless educated in it, we tend to see history in a linear progression of:

 

Medieval = everything bad (food sucked and plague was everywhere, including in your shoes).

Then the Renaissance = Books and **** made people think again and make pretty art.

After that the Age of Exploration = Columbus and a bunch of dudes colonized all of America at once and killed the Native Americans with their super-technology.

 

When in reality Shakespeare wrote about colonization in the Tempest; Renaissance militia used a mix of guns and pikes; and that platemail coexisted with guns for a long time.  Perhaps most interesting is how violent, superstitious, greedy, and downright medieval most of the explorers were.  My favorite primary source of all time is an account of Sir Francis Drake's Journeys where the author talks about robbing churches, eating penguins, and stealing the fire****ter.

 

Pillars is the struggle of a man passionate about middle ages & rennaisance history and fantasy rpgs (Josh Sawyer), trying to keep a balance between them

Edited June 23, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[tid242]

 

 

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Pillars in general is post-Medieval, as you point out.  Another hint is the way Caed-Nua is called an old-style fortress; fortresses were redesigned to resist cannons.  However, as a History teacher who teaches this exact subject to unimpressionable young minds; we have a problem integrating Histories of multiple locations or intuitively seeing history as a gradual change.  Unless educated in it, we tend to see history in a linear progression of:

 

Medieval = everything bad (food sucked and plague was everywhere, including in your shoes).

Then the Renaissance = Books and **** made people think again and make pretty art.

After that the Age of Exploration = Columbus and a bunch of dudes colonized all of America at once and killed the Native Americans with their super-technology.

 

When in reality Shakespeare wrote about colonization in the Tempest; Renaissance militia used a mix of guns and pikes; and that platemail coexisted with guns for a long time.  Perhaps most interesting is how violent, superstitious, greedy, and downright medieval most of the explorers were.  My favorite primary source of all time is an account of Sir Francis Drake's Journeys where the author talks about robbing churches, eating penguins, and stealing the fire****ter.

 

Pillars is the struggle of a man passionate about middle ages & rennaisance history and fantasy rpgs (Josh Sawyer), trying to keep a balance between them

 

 

It was always confusing to me why fortresses would need to be redesigned for cannons when a wizard's spells (or dragons a la Harrenhal) represent a much superior tactical technology anyway.

 

It would be much more likely, in high fantasy settings that the emergence of other technologies/knowledge/etc would've forced the sociopolitical realignments that bankrupted the existing power structures that the advent of gunpowder replacing dudes running alongside a huge wheeled stick (or trebuchets, for that matter) did.

 

I'm not a historian, let alone instruct in this subject area - so I'm more than happy not really noticing the anachronistic architectural mixes.  In my simple mind I can just chalk it up to gunpowder not really being a paradigm-breaking technological emergence (whereas, in my simple mind the hollow-born blight certainly would be)..

 

 

 

@injurai Beautiful post near the top of this thread, btw.  Couldn't have said it better myself..

 

-tid242

Edited June 25, 2017 by tid242

[Katarack21]

To become a powerful mage requires a *lifetime* of study. Don't let the levels in PoE fool you; Aloth's growth is not meant to be reflective of how this works. To become the kind of mage who can stand in front of army and shatter a castles walls with a few spells requires years of effort, and very few can do it.

It takes, what, six months to build a canon? And any group of jackasses can get taught how to use. For every mage casting fireball, there's a hundred cannons. And remember, firearms pierce through mage armor in this setting, so mages had to adapt to the new technology to stay alive, even.

[Archaven]

 

 

 

To be really honest.. what draws me for PoE2 was the first PoE. It gaves me the old-school feel.  Frankly speaking, i'm not really a big fan of ships, tropical islands and pirates. I lean more towards the medieval fantasy. About elves, dwarves, druids, forests and ancient ruins. That is why i kind of have some nostalgic feeling when Kingmaker was being kickstarted.

 

A little variety can be a good thing. This setting is more like the Age of Exploration than the Middle Ages. For example, on Earth the wheellock was a 16th century invention, which is post-medieval.

 

 

Pillars in general is post-Medieval, as you point out.  Another hint is the way Caed-Nua is called an old-style fortress; fortresses were redesigned to resist cannons.  However, as a History teacher who teaches this exact subject to unimpressionable young minds; we have a problem integrating Histories of multiple locations or intuitively seeing history as a gradual change.  Unless educated in it, we tend to see history in a linear progression of:

 

Medieval = everything bad (food sucked and plague was everywhere, including in your shoes).

Then the Renaissance = Books and **** made people think again and make pretty art.

After that the Age of Exploration = Columbus and a bunch of dudes colonized all of America at once and killed the Native Americans with their super-technology.

 

When in reality Shakespeare wrote about colonization in the Tempest; Renaissance militia used a mix of guns and pikes; and that platemail coexisted with guns for a long time.  Perhaps most interesting is how violent, superstitious, greedy, and downright medieval most of the explorers were.  My favorite primary source of all time is an account of Sir Francis Drake's Journeys where the author talks about robbing churches, eating penguins, and stealing the fire****ter.

 

Pillars is the struggle of a man passionate about middle ages & rennaisance history and fantasy rpgs (Josh Sawyer), trying to keep a balance between them

 

 

Yes that is my biggest issue with deadfire. I'd like PoE stay faithful to fantasy rather than renaissance history. I know Josh is a big fan and wanted to do his historic RPG. I think he may get a chance to do (looking at all the hint on a historic RPG). So going to tropical island, pirates and modernization is really a big minus to me. The whole reason i backed deadfire because the magic in first Pillars revive my nostalgic craving for a successor to Baldur's Gate.

[injurai]

To become a powerful mage requires a *lifetime* of study. Don't let the levels in PoE fool you; Aloth's growth is not meant to be reflective of how this works. To become the kind of mage who can stand in front of army and shatter a castles walls with a few spells requires years of effort, and very few can do it.

 

It takes, what, six months to build a canon? And any group of jackasses can get taught how to use. For every mage casting fireball, there's a hundred cannons. And remember, firearms pierce through mage armor in this setting, so mages had to adapt to the new technology to stay alive, even.

 

Yeah, even Durance goes on his maniacal diatribe over gunpowder bringing fire to the commoner. No longer being just the weapon of the elite wizards.

[rjshae]

To become a powerful mage requires a *lifetime* of study. Don't let the levels in PoE fool you; Aloth's growth is not meant to be reflective of how this works. To become the kind of mage who can stand in front of army and shatter a castles walls with a few spells requires years of effort, and very few can do it.

 

It takes, what, six months to build a canon? And any group of jackasses can get taught how to use. For every mage casting fireball, there's a hundred cannons. And remember, firearms pierce through mage armor in this setting, so mages had to adapt to the new technology to stay alive, even.

 

A noble who can pay to build a castle can probably also afford to hire a powerful wizard's guild and cloak the castle in magical defenses. Perhaps those are mixed into the masonry during construction, but it would seem realistic to see some glowy runes and magical barriers around the fortress in strategic locations.

[Katarack21]

I have no evidence for this, but it seems logical to me that if a pistol goes right through mage armor, a big cannon would probably go right through those wards and shields.

[Sedrefilos]

Wizards cannot be mass produced; canons (and firearms and weapons in genral) can. Spells need a lifetime of dedication to be powerful and in control. Firearms need a week of training. It's stupid, of course, to try and rationalize a setting with magic etc, but if one wants an explanation, this is the best I can think of

[injurai]

Wizards cannot be mass produced; canons (and firearms and weapons in genral) can. Spells need a lifetime of dedication to be powerful and in control. Firearms need a week of training. It's stupid, of course, to try and rationalize a setting with magic etc, but if one wants an explanation, this is the best I can think of

 

I take a grimoire and cast it.

[tid242]

To become a powerful mage requires a *lifetime* of study. Don't let the levels in PoE fool you; Aloth's growth is not meant to be reflective of how this works. To become the kind of mage who can stand in front of army and shatter a castles walls with a few spells requires years of effort, and very few can do it.

 

It takes, what, six months to build a canon? And any group of jackasses can get taught how to use. For every mage casting fireball, there's a hundred cannons. And remember, firearms pierce through mage armor in this setting, so mages had to adapt to the new technology to stay alive, even.

 

Great point - Dragons are also appropriately rare in Pillars.