Gfted1 Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Moderator are you for real right now? Anyway I'm through with this thread anyway. Sure am. Oh noes! Feel free to return if you come up with conversation that doesn't involve calling other poster masturbatory weirdos. You won. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Wormerine Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Games are fantastic stories in a fantasy (as the genre) setting. Fantasies (as in sexual fantasies) are thougts of one's doings that he or she can't do in reality. Very convinient the word is the same huh? But the meaning is different. You want to have fantasies with you and a portrait? Good, do that. But making a fuss about Ydwin all this time is fanservice demand. And with your post you pretty much confirm my initial argument: the fuss is all about weirdos want to fap. Right, so you're saying in your daily life you regularly save the world? Help every random stranger (or kill them), fight terrible monsters, boldy go where no man has gone before etc? Are you saying that you are exactly as daring, witty and handsome as Commander Shepard and every other PC in existence? If so, then accept my apologies. You are clearly an enlightened being that plays games for their philosophical and speritual value rather than anything else. But something tells me you're none of those things. So, i hate to break it to you, but you play games for the very same reason us filthy "fappers" do. And i'm not making a fuss at all. I simply said that i would've preferred a different character. No more, no less. It is you who seems to triggered here. The point Sedrefilos was making was to not mistake fantasy as a genre: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy With fantasy as a psychological phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_(psychology) Fantasy RPG is not a game which fulfills your fantasies (though it can if that’s what devs are going for) but allows you to role play in a fictional world, often (but not necessary) drawing inspirations from folklore. 1
Sakai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) The point Sedrefilos was making was to not mistake fantasy as a genre: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy With fantasy as a psychological phenomenon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_(psychology) Fantasy RPG is not a game which fulfills your fantasies (though it can if that’s what devs are going for) but allows you to role play in a fictional world, often (but not necessary) drawing inspirations from folklore. I am not mistaking this at all. What exactly does role playing do? Why do people want to play any role other than their own in the first place? To fulfil a fantasie. As simple as that. Or to be more precise to fulfil some psychological need that is lacking from their daily life. So to berate someone for having fantasies when you're no different is hypocritical at best. Edited October 18, 2017 by Sakai
Wormerine Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 The point Sedrefilos was making was to not mistake fantasy as a genre: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy With fantasy as a psychological phenomenon:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_(psychology) Fantasy RPG is not a game which fulfills your fantasies (though it can if that’s what devs are going for) but allows you to role play in a fictional world, often (but not necessary) drawing inspirations from folklore. I am not mistaking this at all. What exactly does role playing do? Why do people want to play any role other than their own in the first place? To fulfil a fantasie. As simple as that. Or to be more precise to fulfil some psychological need that is lacking from their daily life. So to berate someone for having fantasies when you're no different is hypocritical at best. I don’t think I can agree with you though you did raise an interesting point. Is consuming any kind of media fulfilling a fantasy? That would assume you only watch, read, play only works related to things you desired first. And that you know in advance what you want. An extreme example: I have no fantasy of living through world war 2 and especially ghetto. And yet I watched The Pianist, Schindler’s list and many more. Calling those films fantasies is absurd. They are compelling but for different reasons than fantasy fulfilment. I see games in similar way. Yes, there are games which do cater to fantasies -I play Elite, city builders, Batman for that very reason. I didn’t see PoE as a fullfiler of my fantasies. It was way to uncomfortable for it. Companions weren’t people I would like to have around (Durance) but they were engaging for different reasons. For the similar reason I didn’t like KOTOR2 on my first playthrough. Because instead of giving me what I want like KOTOR1 did it attepted to shake up my viewpoint of good&bad in SW universe. These st at least my thoughts on the subject.
Lephys Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Games are fantasies by their very own nature. Everything in them, everyt single aspect is a fantasy. It's all wish fulfilment from start to finish. So what i personally find weird is people blaming others for preferring one fantasy over the other. As if fantasies that they prefer are somehow better, more "enlightened". Just ridiculous. They are. Fantasies, in general. They are not necessarily wish fulfillment, because, like books, they are partially about exploring and enjoying the specific imaginings of others as well. Not just "pinpoint only the things I happen to already enjoy and then only read books/play games that have ONLY characters that I find attractive in them." It's not about being more enlightened, and it's not a competition. It's simply narrower-minded (as an objective measurement, and not an insult) to restrict oneself to such a small chunk of the spectrum of fiction, to want all characters in an imagined world to be designed a certain way. Why NOT have variety in your fantasy world? That's all. Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
Sakai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) I don’t think I can agree with you though you did raise an interesting point. Is consuming any kind of media fulfilling a fantasy? That would assume you only watch, read, play only works related to things you desired first. And that you know in advance what you want. An extreme example: I have no fantasy of living through world war 2 and especially ghetto. And yet I watched The Pianist, Schindler’s list and many more. Calling those films fantasies is absurd. They are compelling but for different reasons than fantasy fulfilment. I see games in similar way. Yes, there are games which do cater to fantasies -I play Elite, city builders, Batman for that very reason. I didn’t see PoE as a fullfiler of my fantasies. It was way to uncomfortable for it. Companions weren’t people I would like to have around (Durance) but they were engaging for different reasons. For the similar reason I didn’t like KOTOR2 on my first playthrough. Because instead of giving me what I want like KOTOR1 did it attepted to shake up my viewpoint of good&bad in SW universe. These st at least my thoughts on the subject. I should clarify that by fantasies i don't mean purely positive, pleasurable experiences. More that every experience that we seek meant to supplement something that is missing within ourselves, and these experiences are not necesserily positive or negative in and of themselves. So it's not always as straightforward as dreaming about dating a beautiful woman or something along those lines. In fact, most of the time, i would say, the psychology behind why we choose to experience certain things and not the other is quite complicated. But the bottom line is that we like things that we for whatever reason need. Not to say that our "like" detectors are perfect and we never make mistakes, we absolutely do, but that is, i feel, the general idea behind why we choose to engage with the things that we do. It's not about being more enlightened, and it's not a competition. It's simply narrower-minded (as an objective measurement, and not an insult) to restrict oneself to such a small chunk of the spectrum of fiction, to want all characters in an imagined world to be designed a certain way. Why NOT have variety in your fantasy world? That's all. That's silly. Would you say it's narrow minded to prefer one genre of games over the other? Or one genre of music over the other. Or movies, or books, or whatever else. And i never said that i want ALL characters to be designed a certain way, did i? I only commented about Ydwin, that's it. Edited October 18, 2017 by Sakai 1
Lord_Mord Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) I only commented about Ydwin, that's it. You didn't. You specifically said, all women in Pillars were boyish. But all of them are different. You have a motherly type (Sagani), an attractive but very serious woman (Pallegina), a warrior type (The Amaua woman), which wasn't unanattractive or manly either, dispite being a lesbian barbarian (Some forum user actually said, she was hot), a dark and creepy woman (Grieving Mother) and finally the evil, sexy one with boobplate (Devil). Saying that none of them was female enough basically means, that you consider 90% of women unattractive. P.S.: How about you describing what you consider a feminine and interesting character? Edited October 18, 2017 by Lord_Mord --- We're all doomed
smjjames Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) I only commented about Ydwin, that's it. You didn't. You specifically said, all women in Pillars were boyish. But all of them are different. You have a motherly type (Sagani), an attractive but very serious woman (Pallegina), a warrior type (The Amaua woman), which wasn't unanattractive or manly either, dispite being a lesbian barbarian (Some forum user actually said, she was hot), a dark and creepy woman (Grieving Mother) and finally the evil, sexy one with boobplate (Devil). Saying that none of them was female enough basically means, that you consider 90% of women unattractive. P.S.: How about you describing what you consider a female and interesting character? He didn't say all women were boyish, just said that "there are enough tomboys" without specifying which ones, or saying all specifcally. Pallegina may seem a bit tomboy because she is in a paladin order that doesn't allow women, but in no way was her personality ever 'tomboyish', and she was taking advantage of the opportunity given by her 'godlikeness' and Vailian law to get into something that would otherwise be barred because of her physical female appearance. Edited October 18, 2017 by smjjames
Abel Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I never thought about this while playing Pillars, but now that you mention it, there is no character like PST's Annah. I loved her so much... even though it was merely a character, and was soooo desperate at the end of the game :s Oh, i pretty much liked Aerie, too. She was annoying, but cute . One character like these in the Pillars cast would not hurt me, to be honest.
smjjames Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Not familiar with PST and the Annah character in it, what's the PST game?
Lord_Mord Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 He didn't say all women were boyish, just said that "there are enough tomboys" without specifying which ones, or saying all specifcally. Than I would be glad to hear which tomboys he was speaking of. Besides: Does he really think that your average housewife would be a great addition to any adventuring group? Not familiar with PST and the Annah character in it, what's the PST game? Planescape Torment. Annah was a tiefling thief with daggers. As I remember, she sweared a lot. --- We're all doomed
Abel Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Planescape Torment. The best CRPG ever. Black Isle masterpiece. Annah was a half fielon (what is it called in english?). She was cute, had a tail, a bad, childish temper, and was pretty hard to handle. And i grew attached to her more than i would have ever thought at first. She really is etched in me, along with Deionarra (tragic character). The sort of desperate romance you could have with her was really well written. And i have fond memories of it. This kind of character somewhat lacks in pillars where i could never really grow attached to any character even half as much. And yes, her cuteness was one of her good points. 1
Sakai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) He didn't say all women were boyish, just said that "there are enough tomboys" without specifying which ones, or saying all specifcally. Pallegina may seem a bit tomboy because she is in a paladin order that doesn't allow women, but in no way was her personality ever 'tomboyish', and she was taking advantage of the opportunity given by her 'godlikeness' and Vailian law to get into something that would otherwise be barred because of her physical female appearance. Maybe tomboy wasn't the right choice of word there. English is not my first language, so maybe i misunderstand what it means. But basically i just want a female character that isn't a "strong woman" type of character. I know, i know, that's the current trend right now and all that, but i just find them to be very dull. I want a character that is fun and Ydwin's concept looked fun. Now her portrait, even the new one, looks like more of the same, which for me is disappointing. Planescape Torment. The best CRPG ever. Black Isle masterpiece. Annah was a half fielon (what is it called in english?). She was cute, had a tail, a bad, childish temper, and was pretty hard to handle. And i grew attached to her more than i would have ever thought at first. She really is etched in me, along with Deionarra (tragic character). The sort of desperate romance you could have with her was really well written. And i have fond memories of it. This kind of character somewhat lacks in pillars where i could never really grow attached to any character even half as much. And yes, her cuteness was one of her good points. Yes, pretty much that. Fun. Edited October 18, 2017 by Sakai
smjjames Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) He didn't say all women were boyish, just said that "there are enough tomboys" without specifying which ones, or saying all specifcally. Pallegina may seem a bit tomboy because she is in a paladin order that doesn't allow women, but in no way was her personality ever 'tomboyish', and she was taking advantage of the opportunity given by her 'godlikeness' and Vailian law to get into something that would otherwise be barred because of her physical female appearance. Maybe tomboy wasn't the right choice of word there. English is not my first language, so maybe i misunderstand what it means. But basically i just want a female character that isn't a "strong woman" type of character. I know, i know, that's the current trend right now and all that, but i just find them to be very dull. I want a character that is fun and Ydwin's concept looked fun. Now her portrait, even the new one, looks like more of the same, which for me is disappointing. Planescape Torment. The best CRPG ever. Black Isle masterpiece. Annah was a half fielon (what is it called in english?). She was cute, had a tail, a bad, childish temper, and was pretty hard to handle. And i grew attached to her more than i would have ever thought at first. She really is etched in me, along with Deionarra (tragic character). The sort of desperate romance you could have with her was really well written. And i have fond memories of it. This kind of character somewhat lacks in pillars where i could never really grow attached to any character even half as much. And yes, her cuteness was one of her good points. Yes, pretty much that. Fun. Misunderstanding via lanuage barrier, okay, that's understandable. Though, I don't understand how Ydwins portrait looks more the same, or rather, I'm not sure what you think a portrait of a woman that isn't a "strong woman" character should look like. Seems like Ydwin would be a more Fun type, but unfortunately she's a sidekick and sidekicks are pretty much gutted of personality. Probably the closest in PoE1 would be Sagani and Grieving Mother, except that GM is all dark, moody, and gothic. Sagani is a bit athletic due to being a hunter in her tribe. Edited October 18, 2017 by smjjames
Wormerine Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Not familiar with PST and the Annah character in it, what's the PST game? Planescape: Torment
Valmy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I like it. One should enjoy your work of ripping the souls out of kith. 2
Sakai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Misunderstanding via lanuage barrier, okay, that's understandable. Though, I don't understand how Ydwins portrait looks more the same, or rather, I'm not sure what you think a portrait of a woman that isn't a "strong woman" character should look like. Seems like Ydwin would be a more Fun type, but unfortunately she's a sidekick and sidekicks are pretty much gutted of personality. Probably the closest in PoE1 would be Sagani and Grieving Mother, except that GM is all dark, moody, and gothic. Sagani is a bit athletic due to being a hunter in her tribe. Because in my mind it gives of the same vibe, more or less, as other female characters in Deadfire. Dark and moody. Where's her original concept art looked playeful and cheeky. Although i know people have varying opinions about this one. Saw someone in this thread, i think, describe her new portrait as cheeky, and was like "really? you call that cheeky, a barely noticeable smile?". Edited October 18, 2017 by Sakai
LLaney Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 For whatever it's worth, the images Josh initially tweeted were works in progress. 7
Abel Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Always nice to have insight from the team. Thanks. By the way, would be nice to have the possibility to have some characters redeem themselves throughout the game. Call me nostalgic, but i liked how you could influence Anomen or Viconia in BG (well i never really succeeded with Viconia actually ^^). Or how you could change Dakkon in PS:T. Companions could develop along the road. And i'm definitely a supporter of this. Concerning Ydwin and such, maybe the team look for a more "natural" feeling to their characters. And maybe they feel characters like Annah or Aerie do not feel really natural, or feel out of place. Which is a shame in my opinion Edited October 18, 2017 by Abel 1
Sakai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 For whatever it's worth, the images Josh initially tweeted were works in progress. Figured as much. And i'm certainly not passing any final judgements before i actually played game. Just sharing my thoughts and impressions so far. After all, you gotta pass the time before the game comes out somehow.
darqleo Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 For whatever it's worth, the images Josh initially tweeted were works in progress. The sidekicks portraits kick ass, and so do Maia Rua and Serafen. Do you know if the Big 3's portraits (Eder, Aloth, Pallegina) are works in progress? So far they lack the "personality" of their POE1 counterparts IMHO.
injurai Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Changes in the portrait ... I do prefer a more pleasant expression when looking at a party member for many hours of gameplay. Expression and compression aside, the improved shadowing and additional detailing on the clothes is nice. I also like the change in color tone towards plum. 1
MortyTheGobbo Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Pretty much everything about this one sidekick hasn't been so much a tempest in a teacup as a hurricane in a shot glass. 3
Selky Posted October 19, 2017 Posted October 19, 2017 After reading her description again... Ydwin- A strange pale elf cipher from "a lot of different places". Fascinated by animancy, Ydwin spends her free time examining fresh and not-so-fresh corpses. Though she has a charming and pleasant demeanor, new acquaintances are often shocked at her intimate familiarity with death and her dispassionate affect in the face of even the most grisly scenes. Assuming that this is still accurate, I agree with the portrait change. I really liked the first portrait but it's important to have one that matches the character. She's still perfect and I'm sure I'll come to love the new portrait as well. 2
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