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2. I don't know that the cipher aspect is relevant, but she's an animancer, so yes.

 

I don't think being an animancer would allow her to communicate with the captured soul, that's really the domain of Watchers.

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2. I don't know that the cipher aspect is relevant, but she's an animancer, so yes.

 

I don't think being an animancer would allow her to communicate with the captured soul, that's really the domain of Watchers.

 

 

I meant she'd be able to just put it into vessel that could talk, like Galvino. I doubt she could speak to it directly. But given the mix up over Watcher/cipher powers by the writers in Pillars, I'm still not entirely sure what each is meant to be able to do.

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I meant she'd be able to just put it into vessel that could talk, like Galvino. I doubt she could speak to it directly. 

 

Ah right. Yeah she might be able to, although considering that even Galvino couldn't repeat his feat it's not a given.

 

But given the mix up over Watcher/cipher powers by the writers in Pillars, I'm still not entirely sure what each is meant to be able to do.

 

 

Yeah, there is a little overlap between the two which isn't explained well. I'd tend to assume that Watchers are, in a sense, innate animancers. Where animancers need all sorts of scientific equipment to measure various properties of souls, Watchers can interact directly with souls. But who knows, perhaps a sufficiently brilliant animancer could find a way to communicate directly with a soul.

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Kind of like how Aloth is elf-early or mid 30's? He's 62 (67 in Deadfire), but has the appearance of being in his early or mid 30's.

 

So in principle Ydwin could be 30 and look like 12, but it would be totally legal to **** her. Isn't that great, manga fans out there?

Normally you are fairly reasonable but I have to ask, is something about this subject personal to you?

 

Her character is not a teenager, not advertised as a teenager, doesn't look like a teenager, and as an elf who looks to be mid 20's at least, is probably in her 50's.  So please, move past that, it simply is not true on any level, and it is sort of disturbing that you think anyone posting on these forums is a fan of child pornography.

 

Does she look sort of "cute"?  I guess?  That doesn't change the fact that her backstory makes her sound like (to quote Cottonwolf) "a death obsessed animancer".  Nothing about being an Animancer is cute, or did you hate the lady with the undead Cat in Eternity 1 for being a cute girl anime trope?  Because she probably has more in common with Ydwin than any other character in the series to this point.

 

For the record, the negative feedback based on nothing but her cute girl that looks vaguely anime design has always vastly outweighed anything else about her on the forum.  To the point that the only group frothing at the mouth over Ydwin, is the group that hates her based purely on her appearance.

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I don't think her chances at becoming a full-fledged companion are necessarily great.

 

While alot of fans say "Yes, because the first game did this" we must keep in mind that this is NOT PoE1 so we should not expect or set up false hope and hype around speculation.

 

That's always something to keep in mind :)


Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother?

 

What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest.

 

Begone! Lest I draw my nail...

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What does anyone even know about this Ydwin other than one picture?

 

Why do you care so much?

Nobody here knows much of anything...

 

However, just as any other fanbase, toms of fanart, fan-fiction, etc etc has been created. I kinda understand, my latest obsession is Infinite from Sonic Forces. Not much has been revealed about him but he looks awesome. I suppose that's the same feeling people get here with Ydwin.


Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother?

 

What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest.

 

Begone! Lest I draw my nail...

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What does anyone even know about this Ydwin other than one picture?

 

Why do you care so much?

Tbh we know her backstory which is very interesting but the sad truth is that most people went ape**** about her for fapping reasons :(

Okay let's take a moment to be fair and insert some perspective.

 

People were excited for a number of reasons.

 

  1. Her design, regardless of however many people will swear up and own it is "anime", is actually very good.
  2. Her background makes her out to be one of those potentially crazy Edwin type characters which was really absent in Eternity 1.  Durance is really just a self absorbed ****, and Hiravias is just a horndog.  Neither are really that slightly crazy, but definitely evil, mix.
  3. She is the only pale elf team member of any variety, and lots of people like pale elves.  No, mercs you hire at the inn don't count.
  4. She is the only person who can be a rogue at level one other than Eder.  Unlike Eder, it actually makes sense for her to have rogue levels.
  5. This is potentially the biggest reason for those of us who care about the lore of the game, she is the only party member option from either game that is actually an Animancer.  A profession you REALLY should have had represented in Eternity 1's party, since most of your team didn't care, or was against it.  In fact, was anyone other than Pallegina pro animancy?
  6. Yes, promancers wanted a female elf option.  Get over it :p

 

So yeah, there are some good reasons people liked her as a character and wanted her to be more than a sidekick.

 

wrong. wrong. wrong.

 

well, not complete wrong.  in truth, am in agreement 'bout a number o' points.  am personal not getting the need for a pale elf, particular in the deadfire setting, but for those wanting the pale elf pov explored a bit, there is merit in a pale elf companion to offer a window into a largely unexplored pillars culture. pale elves ain't really gonna figure prominent in deadfire, so am not seeing a need to force the issue, but am nevertheless seeing why folks want such now rather than waiting for am expansion or sequel.

 

am also much in agreement regarding the value o' an animancer companion.  too little, too late? were something we shoulda' seen in poe.  am actual a bit concerned 'bout obsidian attempts to redeem animancy in deadfire. even so, an animancer companion, avoiding hamfisted lore dumps, would be a welcome addition to deadfire as the mountain o' soulless babies and flesh eating undead demand a response o' some kind. am personal thinking it is too late to install an advocate for animancy, but a fresh voice might, at the least, illuminate and explore lingering questions.

 

unfortunate so much else is just wrong.

 

is no surprise the elf's design appeals to anime folks. good or bad is highly subjective, but am annoyed by some o' the inherent ridiculousness o' the character design... which we went into ad nauseum earlier.  not gonna repeat. regardless, good and bad opinions seem split and is no surprise the anime fans tend to voice "good." 

 

eder, btw, is much more plausible as a rogue. the problem is folks never bought into the poe rogue.  folks don't even recall what were the poe rogue, back when eder were a rogue.

 

"In Pillars of Eternity, the designation of a character as a "rogue" signifies their vicious, brutal style of fighting, not a propensity for theft or deception. More than any other class, rogues exemplify the adage that the best defense is a good offense. If fighters are the disciplined, reliable, well-trained units that hold the line, rogues are the shock troops that attempt to break through that line to take out vulnerable units before they can effectively retaliate. When pinned down, rogues can suffer from their weak defenses, but ideally they carry their momentum from one target to the next in short order."

 

is from "Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers."

 

poe rogues is a combat class.  is "shock troops." is heavy hitters. is embracing a vicious, brutal fighting style. etc. so, eder or ydwin? tell us again how ydwin makes more sense as a heavy hitter shock trooper. 

 

as for edwin nostalgia and belief ydwin will replace him based on micro-blurb character description, am thinking you shouldn't hold your breath.  the deadfire writers, who were poe writers, don't seem to be aiming for cartoony pastiche. not only do we see an intentional avoidance o' simplistic moral pigeonholing o' companions, but am suspecting the last thing the obsidian folks want is for a deadfire companion to be an obvious stand-in for a bg/bg2 joinable npc. so cliché edwin's evil is unlikely and an overt edwin clone is even more unlikely.

 

promancers need an elf female? not even gonna respond to such.

 

regardless, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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I must say, am I the only one who didn't walk away from the game thinking it put animancers in a bad light?  Sure, it shows them doing bad stuff but it also was clear that they could do good stuff I thought, and that it was a double-edged sword like any tech.  I actually thought they were pushing the "animancy is good!" a bit too hard at some points, and that you were being corralled into being pro-animancer as the good option!  Was I playing a different game to the rest of you?  Did I mistake a cardboard box for my PC again?

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

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I'm going to murder this character as soon as I meet her now. SEE HOW YOU ALL LIKE THAT!

 

BAHAHAHA!

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nowt

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Normally you are fairly reasonable but I have to ask, is something about this subject personal to you?

 

Despite my continous fear that the one game that I found acceptable since 17 years could be transformed into a crowd pleasing monstrosity at any time? No.

 

To be honest, even the companions in Pillars 1 had something cute and teenager-like about them. I understand that computer games are for teenagers, but what I really want are serious characters. You know serious not like "I have somewhat of a split personality and dont know how to deal with it" or "I have a problem with authority". That are basically teenager problems transfered into a magical medieval world. I mean serious characters like The Name Of The Rose serious or serious characters like Hard To Be A God serious.

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---

We're all doomed

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I'm going to murder this character as soon as I meet her now. SEE HOW YOU ALL LIKE THAT!

 

BAHAHAHA!

 

In my playthrough Ydwin and Bonteru will assasinate Tekehu.

 

How do you like them apples?


It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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I'm going to murder this character as soon as I meet her now. SEE HOW YOU ALL LIKE THAT!

 

BAHAHAHA!

 

In my playthrough Ydwin and Bonteru will assasinate Tekehu.

 

How do you like them apples?

 

I don't like that sound of them apples..... what am I gonna do?!


nowt

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I'm going to murder this character as soon as I meet her now. SEE HOW YOU ALL LIKE THAT!

 

BAHAHAHA!

 

In my playthrough Ydwin and Bonteru will assasinate Tekehu.

 

How do you like them apples?

 

I don't like that sound of them apples..... what am I gonna do?!

 

*hands pamphlet*

Accept Dwarfism into your life.  Join us in the fight to bring about the glory of Dwarfs/Dwarves into every game!

Edited by FlintlockJazz
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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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What this thread needs is a super mellow Dwarven party member named Xanax...

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I must say, am I the only one who didn't walk away from the game thinking it put animancers in a bad light?  Sure, it shows them doing bad stuff but it also was clear that they could do good stuff I thought, and that it was a double-edged sword like any tech.  I actually thought they were pushing the "animancy is good!" a bit too hard at some points, and that you were being corralled into being pro-animancer as the good option!  Was I playing a different game to the rest of you?  Did I mistake a cardboard box for my PC again?

 

Exactly this. In fact, personally I felt that the questionable acts by animancy were only included so as to make what is obviously the best and most sensible choice be tinged with a bit of grey. I thought it was a pretty clear-cut choice when the alternative was to stunt progress and vindicate the people's superstitions.

Edited by algroth
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I must say, am I the only one who didn't walk away from the game thinking it put animancers in a bad light?  Sure, it shows them doing bad stuff but it also was clear that they could do good stuff I thought, and that it was a double-edged sword like any tech.  I actually thought they were pushing the "animancy is good!" a bit too hard at some points, and that you were being corralled into being pro-animancer as the good option!  Was I playing a different game to the rest of you?  Did I mistake a cardboard box for my PC again?

 

Exactly this. In fact, personally I felt that the worst acts by animancy were only included so as to make what is obviously the best and most sensible choice be tinged with a bit of grey.

 

 

Well, it does place them in the middle of a crisis and desperacy in a crisis tends to drive people towards extreme or otherwise unorthodox solutions. Thaos screwing around didn't help either, but he was anti-animancy.

 

The Durgan's Battery dwarves apparently practiced some form of animancy (their forge guardians were like advanced versions of what the Knights of the Crucible were trying to accomplish. Don't know whether the battery guardians were a result of animancy or a type of spirit.

 

Evidently the proccesses of creating constructs like what Galvino was trying to perfect is more advanced or done differently in the Deadfire region. Then again, five years does give time for knowledge to spread.

 

Also, on the animancy front regarding Ydwin, she's the animancy version of a pioneer in forensics science.

Edited by smjjames

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Yeah. Animancers are heroes. Like supercool surgeons or something. The gods in white. Except for the part where they take souls from the wheel and prevent them from being reborn, just to create some kind of robots.


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Yeah. Animancers are heroes. Like supercool surgeons or something. The gods in white. Except for the part where they take souls from the wheel and prevent them from being reborn, just to create some kind of robots.

*Some* animancers, that is. And that's really the problem. Animancy is the game's stand-in for science, and this could be used as much for trapping souls in constructs as it could for helping fractured souls to find their 'twin'. The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length. Again, though, the alternative presented is really just superstition, and from the present day rationalist perspective, science will trump it every time.


My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg

Currently playing: Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

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 The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length.

not true.  the problem is animancy is a stand-in for real world science, but real world science, in spite o' the horrors o' which it is capable, does not require the manipulation o' souls. frankenstein's monster is a boogie man o' science, and a cautionary tale, but the monster's sin were... what?  

 

repost:

 

frankenstein is the frequent used real world cautionary tale 'bout science run amok yes? were fiction. there never were no frankenstein monster. in point o' fact, ms. shelley's monster were benign for most o' the novel. dr. frankenstein creates and is horrified by the creature's ugliness and crudity. the monster is cast out and wanders alone 'til it decides to observe and aid a family kinda in secret. monster eventually learns french and befriends some old blind guy. happy days. everything is ok til family returns and sees the hideous monster and the 'beast' is again driven away. our misbegotten protagonist returns to dr. frankenstein and observes that he will never gain acceptance from people, and so he asks his maker to craft for him a companion. dr. frankenstein initially agrees, but then he starts to worry about the implications o' a race o' monsters, and so he destroys his female creation. the monster finally snaps and swears he will get revenge on frankenstein.
 
if frankenstein's monster has gained a foothold in the collective consciousness as representing the dangers o' science run amok, what then o' the Real Monsters produced by animancy? how much more terrible and vivid is gonna be the nightmares attributed to animancy given that the poe science does require trafficking in human souls and may result in undying monsters? 
 
end repost
 
is a fundamental flaw in using animancy as the representative o' tech and science.  manipulation o' souls is different.  create multitudes o' souless children and rampaging hodes o' undead monsters is the kinda scary nightmares the ignorant imagine is the inevitable end to which science leads.  with animancy, the creation o' monsters and horrors is real.  rip souls, which ain't an abstract such as in the our world but is objective and even tangible, from living bodies or eternity to power creations benign and malefic is not similar to the moral conundrums o' stem cell research or the environmental impact o' coal.
 
deserves a new thread, but the problem o' poe/deadfire animancy is fundamental.  science and animancy is different.
 
HA! Good Fun!

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Yeah. Animancers are heroes. Like supercool surgeons or something. The gods in white. Except for the part where they take souls from the wheel and prevent them from being reborn, just to create some kind of robots.

*Some* animancers, that is. And that's really the problem. Animancy is the game's stand-in for science, and this could be used as much for trapping souls in constructs as it could for helping fractured souls to find their 'twin'. The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length. Again, though, the alternative presented is really just superstition, and from the present day rationalist perspective, science will trump it every time.

 

I don't recall how the hollowborn crisis was interpreted by the animancers, but it appears that Waiden's Legacy was the price to be paid for the practice of trapping souls. It isn't a superstitious belief when direct evidence of the consequence of animancy becomes available via the player's agency. I would expect that information to spread throughout the culture like a meme, transmitted in part by some of the party members, and eventually shaping everybody's interpretation of animancy.


"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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 The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length.

not true.  the problem is animancy is a stand-in for real world science, but real world science, in spite o' the horrors o' which it is capable, does not require the manipulation o' souls. frankenstein's monster is a boogie man o' science, and a cautionary tale, but the monster's sin were... what?  

 

repost:

 

frankenstein is the frequent used real world cautionary tale 'bout science run amok yes? were fiction. there never were no frankenstein monster. in point o' fact, ms. shelley's monster were benign for most o' the novel. dr. frankenstein creates and is horrified by the creature's ugliness and crudity. the monster is cast out and wanders alone 'til it decides to observe and aid a family kinda in secret. monster eventually learns french and befriends some old blind guy. happy days. everything is ok til family returns and sees the hideous monster and the 'beast' is again driven away. our misbegotten protagonist returns to dr. frankenstein and observes that he will never gain acceptance from people, and so he asks his maker to craft for him a companion. dr. frankenstein initially agrees, but then he starts to worry about the implications o' a race o' monsters, and so he destroys his female creation. the monster finally snaps and swears he will get revenge on frankenstein.
 
if frankenstein's monster has gained a foothold in the collective consciousness as representing the dangers o' science run amok, what then o' the Real Monsters produced by animancy? how much more terrible and vivid is gonna be the nightmares attributed to animancy given that the poe science does require trafficking in human souls and may result in undying monsters? 
 
end repost
 
is a fundamental flaw in using animancy as the representative o' tech and science.  manipulation o' souls is different.  create multitudes o' souless children and rampaging hodes o' undead monsters is the kinda scary nightmares the ignorant imagine is the inevitable end to which science leads.  with animancy, the creation o' monsters and horrors is real.  rip souls, which ain't an abstract such as in the our world but is objective and even tangible, from living bodies or eternity to power creations benign and malefic is not similar to the moral conundrums o' stem cell research or the environmental impact o' coal.
 
deserves a new thread, but the problem o' poe/deadfire animancy is fundamental.  science and animancy is different.
 
HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Animancy is not just about the manipulation of souls, however. It refers to the general study of souls, which can involve their manipulation as well as the observation and theorization of their characteristics, behaviour, etc. What's more, what some may see as manipulation others may see as treatment. Take the example of the dragon whose soul was 'bleeding' during White March. Transpose this to a kith, remove the possibility of them to know or meet a Watcher. An animancer may study this person's condition and through treatment - or manipulation - find a way to stop the bleeding. Alternatively, they may tell the person in question what is going on with them better than the person ever would themselves, and point them to someone who may help, namely a Watcher.

 

And animancy *is* presented as a science in the game itself, and more importantly, it is the only science in Eora that the game explores with any real detail. This is crucial to be able to understand what the game is about in the first place, because it is about the birth of humanism and it is about the transition into the Renaissant period. That the game borrows so much from this period is not an accident. As such, animancy does exist in the game as a representative for the fledgling sciences of the time as well.

 

And sure, animancy can create real monsters in the game itself, but I don't really see how that changes much in terms of its representational value. That it stands for something doesn't mean that it is the exact same thing. The history of neuroscience is no less disturbing once you delve deep enough into it, either, nor is the atom bomb's existence any less horrific than these 'real monsters'. Nor does it imply that every animancer is interested in creating monsters, and I think enough cases and points of view are given through the original game to show this.

Edited by algroth
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Yeah. Animancers are heroes. Like supercool surgeons or something. The gods in white. Except for the part where they take souls from the wheel and prevent them from being reborn, just to create some kind of robots.

*Some* animancers, that is. And that's really the problem. Animancy is the game's stand-in for science, and this could be used as much for trapping souls in constructs as it could for helping fractured souls to find their 'twin'. The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length. Again, though, the alternative presented is really just superstition, and from the present day rationalist perspective, science will trump it every time.

 

I don't recall how the hollowborn crisis was interpreted by the animancers, but it appears that Waiden's Legacy was the price to be paid for the practice of trapping souls. It isn't a superstitious belief when direct evidence of the consequence of animancy becomes available via the player's agency. I would expect that information to spread throughout the culture like a meme, transmitted in part by some of the party members, and eventually shaping everybody's interpretation of animancy.

 

That either explicitly happens or doesn't depending on how you play things out at the Animancy trial at the end of act 2. If you're convincing enough and positive about animancy, everyone thinks it was the Leaden Key attempting to malign animancer's good names, and vice versa if you're negative about it.

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Yeah. Animancers are heroes. Like supercool surgeons or something. The gods in white. Except for the part where they take souls from the wheel and prevent them from being reborn, just to create some kind of robots.

*Some* animancers, that is. And that's really the problem. Animancy is the game's stand-in for science, and this could be used as much for trapping souls in constructs as it could for helping fractured souls to find their 'twin'. The issue here falls down to individual practices of animancy and not animancy in general, and I do think that is made pretty clear throughout the game's length. Again, though, the alternative presented is really just superstition, and from the present day rationalist perspective, science will trump it every time.

 

I don't recall how the hollowborn crisis was interpreted by the animancers, but it appears that Waiden's Legacy was the price to be paid for the practice of trapping souls. It isn't a superstitious belief when direct evidence of the consequence of animancy becomes available via the player's agency. I would expect that information to spread throughout the culture like a meme, transmitted in part by some of the party members, and eventually shaping everybody's interpretation of animancy.

 

No, Waidwen's Legacy had nothing to do with the animancers of the time, but was blamed on them by the superstitious crowds as motivated by Thaos and the Leaden Key. The assumption from the masses as the Legacy carried on was that they were being punished for transgressions against either Eothas or the gods in general, and saw animancy as a forbidden study as it ventured into what they believed to be the gods' domain (namely, souls). Though yes, it is also true that the machines that allowed the Legacy to happen were created by Engwithans, and no doubt they possessed knowledge or theory along the lines of animancy too which allowed them to create these in the first place. The purpose was different, of course: these weren't made for the deliberate intention of wiping out a generation but, if I'm not mistaken, for gathering souls by the mass so as to build the gods that rule over present-day Eora. They were soul-magnets which were repurposed by the Leaden Key into the tools to create the Legacy. But as for the animancers and their present-day practices, none of that was a cause for the Legacy, just used as a target by superstitious groups like the Dozens and so on - the reason why things like wichts came about was because they were trying to find a *cure* for the Legacy after it begun, and as mentioned in the game itself, for a while it looked like the process of transferring animal souls into Hollowborn children did work (it's only when they grew up, years later, that things got awkward).

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