alternative facts

[HoonDing]

What rock did that Spicer guy crawl under from anyway? He's a total numbnuts.

[Gromnir]

No they don't, read more carefully:

Ron Bonjean, a spokesman aiding Gorsuch in the confirmation process, largely confirmed Blumenthal’s account, saying Gorsuch didn’t use the word “abhorrent” but did say “disheartening” and “demoralizing.”

Don't know why Gorsuch is conspiring with his enemies against the man who nominated him though, talk about an ingrate. If he has something to say, say it to Trump's face.

 

don't be ridiculous.  so trump is quibbling over "abhorrent" in spite o' fact "disheartening" and "demoralizing" were exact quotes?  after all the times spicer, conway and others has had to spin trump lies, ("what the President meant was...") would be more than a little hypocritical to claim "fake news" 'cause gorsuch added "abhorrent" to genuine "disheartening" and "demoralizing."  wanna again go through the list o' wh offered terror events the media s'posed didn't cover?

 

all this post statement o' trump spin and revisionism is dizzying.

 

"Sen.Richard Blumenthal, who never fought in Vietnam when he said for years he had (major lie),now misrepresents what Judge Gorsuch told him?"

 

more after-the-fact spin to cover trump alternative facts.  and some people, always the same people, is buying such piffle.

 

 

What rock did that Spicer guy crawl under from anyway? He's a total numbnuts.

 

am actual sympathetic to spicer.  his first presser were having to deal with trump's inflated crowd size estimates, and apparently he weren't forceful enough in dealing with the press.  trump wanted spicer to be tougher.  *sigh*  spicer is stuck as the guy explaining all o' the social media and interview blunders trump and his staff is creating, and he needs present an image o' toughness.  makes him seem like a "numbnuts."

serious, we see spicer and we can't help o' think o downed pilot hostage videos.  am not being serious, but is easy to imagine somebody holding a knife to spicer's wife and kids behind the blue curtain.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 9, 2017 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/sean-spicer-press-secretary-donald-trump

 

Related.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yeah, they covered the Orlando shooting as a "right wing homophobe" attack. Lynch even deleted ISIS from the 911 phone transcript. Talk about a deliberate deception, much worse than Trump shooting his mouth off. Where was media scrutiny back then?

[ShadySands]

I dunno, Spicer reminds me of an angrier version of the old Iraqi Information Minister

 

 

 

PS Finally got around to reading Malc's link and it also called him Trump's Baghdad Bob 

Edited February 9, 2017 by ShadySands

[Zoraptor]

That's a bit harsh on Muhammed Sahid al Sahaf. He'd have been literally shot if he went off script.

 

What rock did that Spicer guy crawl under from anyway? He's a total numbnuts.

 

Wasn't like those under Bush or Obama were any good either. All press secretaries are awful- it's in the nature of their job to be terrible, they have to lie, obfuscate, embiggen, spin and generally be untrustworthy- and the Bush/ Obama ones at least had the advantage of a more orthodox approach from their boss, and a far less overtly hostile press- even term 2 Bush.

 

Then again, when I see 'alternative facts' I know that it isn't a new phenomenon- Obama's PR blithely defended the murder of civilians with drones, massaged the numbers, 'forgot' to include a significant number of them in stats (only for them to be rediscovered once he left office) etc. Sure, that's different from Spicer overestimating the numbers at Trump's inauguration, Obama's underestimation of the number of civilians he killed was greater than Spicer's overestimation and was referring to people actually dying as opposed to turning up to be bored by politicians talking for hours.

[Gromnir]

Yeah, they covered the Orlando shooting as a "right wing homophobe" attack. Lynch even deleted ISIS from the 911 phone transcript. Talk about a deliberate deception, much worse than Trump shooting his mouth off. Where was media scrutiny back then?

who the heck is "they"?  you buying into trump's notions o' a unified media conspiracy.  you serious want us to list all the reports on orlando which identified the murderer as a terrorist with links to radical islam?  oh, and it were the cia chief who told the senate there were no ties found 'tween omar and isis. media started looking into other motives?  

 

*feigned shock*

 

this is past surreal.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

Eventually they did, but at first they were trying to create a different impression. Yes, the mainstream media is a liberal echo chamber, no doubt about it. You can't dispute what Lynch did, and you can't dispute that Obama administration classified the Fort Hood attack as "workplace violence", and the media let them get away with it. And Trump is factually correct that Blumenthal's statement was misleading.

[Gromnir]

Eventually they did, but at first they were trying to create a different impression. Yes, the mainstream media is a liberal echo chamber, no doubt about it. 

...

 

so, you are complaining that media outlets were accurate reporting the lack o' isis ties to omar mateen? y'know seeing as how john brennan specific informed Congress the cia were not “able to uncover any link” between omar mateen and the islamic state, am thinking your criticism is ridiculous and bass ackwards.  if you were complaining 'bout how so many news outlets were hypothesizing a link 'tween isis and omar before they got facts, then we would see room for complaint.  but you are actual trying to complain 'bout the media being correct.

 

but knock yourself out going through the link

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS699US699&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=islamic+state+orlando+shooting

 

looks like now we are getting alternative facts from posters as well as politicians, which weren't genuine our aim, but what the hell.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

He was motivated by ISIS, I didn't say they found actual explicit ties, but that's what ISIS tells them to do, launch attacks on their own.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, Mateen himself said he was doing it for and pledged allegiance to, ISIS so there was a link there; and he knew about the death of a reasonably obscure ISIS leader. The CIA said they found no evidence that ISIS knew about him, but they didn't rule out a link either, only said they found no evidence. The FBI also found no evidence that he was a semi repressed homosexual or using Grindr etc either, which was widely reported as being the 'real'/ alternative motive. If reports he was linked (other than self professed) to ISIS are alternative facts/ fake news then so was anything using the repressed homosexual angle.

 

I'm always suspicious of 'x said he did this for y reason, but really he did this for z reason' with no evidence provided for reason z. At least there's his confession for reason y and he showed some knowledge on the subject.

 

I seldom agree with WoD but this definitely ain't alternative facts, not even close.

[Gromnir]

He was motivated by ISIS, I didn't say they found actual explicit ties, but that's what ISIS tells them to do, launch attacks on their own.

he was arguable motivated by isis and any number o' other sources.  sure, omar's father went on air and gave a homophobic rant, so is complete unreasonable (sarcasm) media outlets would check the homophobe angle, y'know, seeing as how the shooting occurred at an lgbt club.  given the lack o' specific ties to isis, complaining that at least a few media outlets were correct when they didn't blame radicalization specific 'pon isis hardly seems like a reason to criticize the media, but you can keep pursuing this line o' alternative facts if you want to further diminish your credibility.

 

oh, and just how many articles from media did you find in our link where the media assumed and reported a link to isis? 1? 3? dozens?

 

serious.

 

oh, and the white house alternative facts stance regarding gorsuch is getting even more wacky.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/spicer-gets-into-heated-exchange-with-reporters-after-insisting-gorsuchs-comments-had-nothing-to-do-with-trump/ar-AAmMrI6?ocid=spartanntp

 

""It was a very distinct argument that he was making," Spicer said. "And that's where I think we've got to be clear. And that's what Sen. Ayotte was saying. Very, very different. ... So you can't then take that and equate it back to the specific.

 

""Asked specifically about Sasse's comments, Spicer avoided answering. "

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/05/trump-walks-back-false-voter-fraud-claim-in-interview-with-bill-oreilly/?utm_term=.af9fcf0a83b7

 

 

"“I know,” O’Reilly said, as if conceding the tediousness of the whole fact enterprise. “But you’ve got to have data to back that up.”

 

"Trump launched into a couple of disconnected sentences about dead people and dual-state registrations and “illegals”—the group he has blamed for Hillary Clinton receiving almost three million more votes than he did. With the Super Bowl about to begin, he could have cited a frequently made analogy: that she might have prevailed in passing yards, but he got the score on the board. Instead, sitting with O’Reilly, he demonstrated again that he would rather disparage the integrity of the entire American electoral process and raise suspicions about minorities than concede to reality. As he often does, he did so in the supposed name of confronting hard truths. “We can be babies,” he said, or we can join “a lot of people” and come out and declare that the situation was bad and that Trump was correct. O’Reilly stopped him.

 

"“But the data has to show that three million illegals voted,” O’Reilly said.

 

"“Forget that. Forget all of that,” Trump said, and made a gesture toward setting up an investigative commission, which Vice-President Mike Pence would lead. That seemed to satisfy O’Reilly, who moved on to when Americans could expect a tax cut."

 

we are being so overwhelmed by alternative facts from trump and trump supporters that they has resorted to hoping we forget.  and it is kinda working.  we honest can't keep up with all the nonsense.  look at wod tying himself in knots and it is nothing compared to the contortionist routine spicer needs must endure almost daily.

 

"forget that?" well, forget you.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 9, 2017 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

That's a bit harsh on Muhammed Sahid al Sahaf. He'd have been literally shot if he went off script.

 

What rock did that Spicer guy crawl under from anyway? He's a total numbnuts.

 

Wasn't like those under Bush or Obama were any good either. All press secretaries are awful- it's in the nature of their job to be terrible, they have to lie, obfuscate, embiggen, spin and generally be untrustworthy- and the Bush/ Obama ones at least had the advantage of a more orthodox approach from their boss, and a far less overtly hostile press- even term 2 Bush.

 

Then again, when I see 'alternative facts' I know that it isn't a new phenomenon- Obama's PR blithely defended the murder of civilians with drones, massaged the numbers, 'forgot' to include a significant number of them in stats (only for them to be rediscovered once he left office) etc. Sure, that's different from Spicer overestimating the numbers at Trump's inauguration, Obama's underestimation of the number of civilians he killed was greater than Spicer's overestimation and was referring to people actually dying as opposed to turning up to be bored by politicians talking for hours.

 

I guess there are professional lies, i.e. almost every government statements, and then all this nonsense from Trump - inept dishonesty is disappointing. Well and trying to be shifty about stuff that doesn't matter.

[Zoraptor]

People said Trump was ineptly dishonest from the moment he started running. His strategy has worked pretty well since then, despite the criticism. It seems rather an odd strategy to me as well, but you can't really argue results and so far the results have been tremendous, the best results.

 

Thing is, people won't remember the details. Commentators may, and journalists may, but people in general won't. What they will remember is that Trump wanted to stop terrorism, and that it was in the news for ages, and that [people] stopped him doing so. When the next terrorist attack happens- as it will- that is what will be remembered. They won't remember that the Bowling Green massacre never happened, that's detail which keeps the main issue in the headlines. The people who remember such things are never going to support Trump anyway (or are so committed they'll never stop supporting him).

 

By and large you can tell when they aren't doing stoking controversy deliberately, because they then try and kill the story rather than double down. Things like Conway's 'buy Ivanka' are not intended, keeping terrorism in the news is though as it's political insurance in case there is an attack- Trump tried to do something about it- and political ammunition to fire at his opponents too. As strategies go it's fine, albeit somewhat... unpleasant since you're effectively waiting for an attack to happen to have it pay off, but you do get some benefit from it anyway.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Trump knows the essence of things, but he's fuzzy on details. There's plenty of evidence that there's massive voter fraud, but no hard numbers because no one ever tried or was allowed to get them. Creamer bragged on video tape about massive voter fraud, and he's been to the White House some 350 times. Obama himself sent a very clear signal to illegals that no one will check if they committed fraud by voting. When Stein did her stupid recount in Michigan they couldn't even recount most of Detroit because a huge number of precincts had a mismatch between voters signed in and ballots cast; and it just goes on and on. But because we have almost no vote integrity measures and the Democrats fight them tooth and nail, no one can quantify how much fraud actually does occur.

[Malcador]

Trump knows the essence of things, but he's fuzzy on details

Yeah, so ass pulls or "Everyone knows..." type of reasoning then, for the most part. Huh, he really is the final form of Rob Ford.

[Wrath of Dagon]

One thing that makes humans superior to computers is to be able to make decisions on incomplete information. Everyone does that every day in their normal life. I'm not saying it's not better to have complete information, but it's not usually possible.

[Hurlshort]

There's plenty of evidence that there's massive voter fraud, but no hard numbers because no one ever tried or was allowed to get them.

 

This sentence is painful. 

[Gromnir]

 

There's plenty of evidence that there's massive voter fraud, but no hard numbers because no one ever tried or was allowed to get them.

 

This sentence is painful. 

 

"Forget that. Forget all of that."

 

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

There's plenty of evidence that there's massive voter fraud, but no hard numbers because no one ever tried or was allowed to get them.

 

This sentence is painful.

 

I believe the preferred term is alternative pleasurable.

[Ben No.3]

One thing that makes humans superior to computers is to be able to make decisions on incomplete information. Everyone does that every day in their normal life. I'm not saying it's not better to have complete information, but it's not usually possible.

Who needs a president to think when he has good guts? I mean look at those guts. He has great guts. They are the best guts. They just are! He can't help it. They're yuuuge.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Ben No.3

[213374U]

Trump knows the essence of things, but he's fuzzy on details.

 

Yeah, I sometimes went into exams like that. I knew the "essence" well enough, but was fuzzy on the details (i.e. I hadn't done my homework). In the rare event that I passed, it was due to dumb luck, and not because I deserved it. The thing is that Trump has people working for him full-time to do the homework, if he'll let them, and provided that he can keep his mouth shut for just long enough.

 

There's this American saying... "the devil is in the detail".

 

You're wrong about computers, btw.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Trump certainly had a period in his campaign when he was flailing. Then finally he was convinced to get more or less on message. Trouble is right now even the people who run the campaign are off message themselves. They all need to get their crap together soon. As far as computers, I didn't mean the new AI stuff, and humans are still better at it for now.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Gromnir]

a week of trump tweets

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/what-trump-got-wrong-on-twitter-this-week-supernumber5/ar-AAmNioy?ocid=spartanntp

 

is kinda amazing he can keep up this rate o' falsehood.  kennedy had a penchant for misstatement, but nothing like what we are seeing from the current wh.  am suspecting much o' trump falsehood is less a result o' machination than it is simple his ignorance coupled with impulse control issues.  

 

am not reassured by our observation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 10, 2017 by Gromnir

[Elerond]

a week of trump tweets

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/what-trump-got-wrong-on-twitter-this-week-supernumber5/ar-AAmNioy?ocid=spartanntp

 

is kinda amazing he can keep up this rate o' falsehood.  kennedy had a penchant for misstatement, but nothing like what we are seeing from the current wh.  am suspecting much o' trump falsehood is less a result o' machination than it is simple his ignorance coupled with impulse control issues.  

 

am not reassured by our observation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

This comment from the article's comments gives good indication why Trump don't need to care factualness of his tweets. His supporters don't just seem to give him benefit of doubt but they actually invent narratives in their head that Trump does only good things and everything else is conspiracy against him even if its is just linking and commenting tweets that Trump himself has made.  

 

"Katharine Dupre

The reason you think the President is lying is because the Washington Post lies about what he is doing. Wake up and smell the coffee!"

 

Some could say that it don't look that one could argue with Trump's supporters reasonable manner, because they don't believe in reason, but only in their own world view and everything else is wrong and bad.