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alternative facts


Gromnir

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:lol:

 

Thank the gods we have these companies to "set the record straight" with unbiased and fair reporting.

were that ever a thing?  were it ever a goal?  the notion o' an unbiased journalist stretches credulity.  to complain that journalists is biased is therefore kinda kookie.

 

journalists should be factual accurate. no alternative facts.  no fake news nonsense.  no purposeful misleading comparisons such as contrast murder rates in chicago to middle east.  when news media fails to be factual accurate, they should be called to account, and with literal dozens o' reputable media sources covering the same events, it rare takes long to see who ain't being true with facts.

 

bias?  

 

*snort*

 

we expect bias.  hell, we even like bias to a degree.  we want passionate reporters to have an emotional stake in the events they is covering. is gonna be multiple ways to look at events and we don't mind if a journalist tries to promote one such perspective over others... just so long as they present facts accurate and truthful.

 

the alt right and hard left "news" sites don't care 'bout facts.  such propaganda mills has fully embraced alternative facts as something legit and real.  fine. doesn't bother us when side-show barkers pretend to be journalists. such stuff can be kinda amusing. the increasing popularity o' fake news is only problematic when seemingly sensible, sane and savvy citizens honest can't distinguish the alternative facts from actual facts.

 

...

 

how is it possible for so many to confuses the credible news sources with the conmen?  the hucksters and snake oil salesmen convinced folks o' the fungible nature o' ubiquitous journalistic bias and alternative facts? is that where it all went wrong? 

 

HA! Good Fun! 

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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It's easy for so many to confuse 'credible' news sources with conmen largely (but not only) because you have passionate, biased reporters. Reporters too are people, and they suffer the exact same series/ ranges of fallacies from scenario fulfilment to cognitive dissonance that lead the average Joe to believe fake news, they just get to put theirs down into print and be taken with some intrinsic, but declining, authority. Passion and bias should stay exactly where it belongs, in opinion columns or reddit/ forums/ usenet/ facebook etc- and out of the news. Too much opinion in news doesn't result in better information, it results in precisely what we have now, declining confidence in the entire idea of actual news, one side ignores the other sides' news because it's 'biased', and vice versa.

 

Passionate, biased reporters are easy to discredit because they almost always fall into a range from selectively reporting to constructively dishonestly reporting because their passion and bias- and being human- means that they believe what fits their world view and ignore what doesn't. You then only have to point out what they have ignored, or their selectiveness, or their lies/ mistakes and you've discredited them with a proportion of their user base. Since most people reading a news source agree with its editorial bias- pretty obvious- that proportion which becomes disillusioned ends up not trusting either their own sides press or the opposition's. So, they look for alternative sources of information, usually still on their own 'side' but do it enough and hey presto, you've discredited the whole idea of news. Ironically, that's the (supposed) aim of entities like RT, which they couldn't do it without the help of those passionate, biased reporters feeding them juicy examples to deconstruct.

 

Passionate, biased reporters give bad analysis and colour their stories because they report on what they want to be true, not what is, and are the cancer that is killing real news far more than fake news- which is, after all, fake; and people get disillusioned with mainstream media for a reason, not just because they're stoopid.

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

Quote

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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So, does Creationist Ken Ham's belief in Dinosaurs, Humans and Giants fighting each other count as "alternate facts"?

 

Creationist Ken Ham: Dinosaurs fought gladiator battles against humans and giants

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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He was verbally referencing terrorist attacks implicitly carried out by refugees in Europe (Germany, Brussels, Nice, Paris) and in the middle of that, referenced "last night in Sweden." 

 

Subtleties of communication skills, indeed.

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Fox convinced him of that, I believe. What with vast unreported crimes apparently.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I stand with Sweden in light of last night's tragic terrorist attack.

 

Where did he said anything about TA? :shrugz:

 

 

Nowhere....

 

It's USAToday.

 

A media outlet that shouldn't be taken any more seriously than the National Enquirer.

Edited by Valsuelm
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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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I stand with Sweden in light of last night's tragic terrorist attack.

 

Where did he said anything about TA? :shrugz:

 

 

Nowhere....

 

It's USAToday.

 

A media outlet that shouldn't be taken any more seriously than the National Enquirer.

 

trump's "baffling" sweden comment got attention from reuters, the washington post, ny times, npr, etc...

 

President utterances kinda get blanket coverage, so is not gonna be an easy alternative fact spin. 

 

however, we understand trump confusion.  there were actual an arguable terrorist attack in sweden not long ago, and it even supports trump notion o' terrorist attacks failing to get adequate media coverage as it went near unnoticed.

 

http://www.thelocal.se/20170203/swedish-neo-nazis-held-over-gothenburg-refugee-centre-blast

 

'course the terrorists were neo-nazis attacking a refugee center, so perhaps the event in sweden don't quite fit with trump's narrative after all.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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So, which incident was he referring to?
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Vn17J/in-english-this-happened-in-sweden-friday-night-mr-president

It even has pictures.

Also, it doesn't matter which channel that was. They just played what Trump said.

Edited by Varana

Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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Well... Melodifestivalen/Eurovision song contest could arguably be called a terror.

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Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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Trump 4, Politilie 1 : http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/02/trump-4-politifact-1.php?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=sw&utm_campaign=sw

 

Also heard an obvious, blatant lie on NPR today. Trump mostly misstates things out of ignorance, the press blatantly lies on purpose.

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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I just meant it was the most recent one, and particularly blatant. Btw, Trump was talking about crime and terrorism in Europe, and was referring to a report about crime in Sweden he saw on Fox the night before. He never said anything about terrorist attack in Sweden, it was just assumed by the press. True that he tends to ramble a bit and confuses people.

Edited by Wrath of Dagon

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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I just meant it was the most recent one, and particularly blatant. Btw, Trump was talking about crime and terrorism in Europe, and was referring to a report about crime in Sweden he saw on fox the night before. He never said anything about terrorist attack in Europe, it was just assumed by the press. True that he tends to ramble a bit and confuses people.

 

Haha @ the underlined. I was jesting, to a degree. I did't figure you for someone who spends a lot of time listening to NPR (which is generally a good thing, unless you're actively studying the media itself).

 

You, I, and everyone with a smidgen of objectivity and at least a low grade BS detector realizes the latter.

Edited by Valsuelm
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I just meant it was the most recent one, and particularly blatant. Btw, Trump was talking about crime and terrorism in Europe, and was referring to a report about crime in Sweden he saw on Fox the night before. He never said anything about terrorist attack in Sweden, it was just assumed by the press. True that he tends to ramble a bit and confuses people.

 

Which is why he decided to use phrase, "You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible,"

 

EDIT: It is easy mistake to make to think that he may have referred something else than report what has been happening in Sweden in past 4 years.

 

Also Trump defense is something that people in media and social media suggested after his speech, so he may have just picked it as his defense when he didn't find anything better ;) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39020962

Edited by Elerond
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wod's fact checker could use a fact checker.  keep in mind Gromnir dislikes politifact.  its rating o' fibs is busted and it will, with some regularity, treat hypocritical behavior o' conservatives different than more liberal individuals. even so, wod's linked does an even worse job o' uncovering truth.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/analysis-fact-checking-president-trump%e2%80%99s-rally-in-florida/ar-AAn6Q36?ocid=spartanntp

 

1) thomas jefferson quote

 

""When Thomas Jefferson said ‘nothing can be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself,’ he said, ‘becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.’ That was June 14 — my birthday — 1807.”"
 
"Trump selectively quotes from Jefferson here, who, for most of his life, was a fierce defender of the need for a free press. When Jefferson wrote to 17-year-old John Novell, urging him to avoid a career in journalism, he was embittered by reports spread by his political opponents that he had slept with Sally Hemings, one of his slaves. Today, most historians believe she was the mother of six of his children. So this is a case where “fake news” turned out to be true."
 
2) f-35, which has been beat to death by folks here and elsewhere
 
"“We’ve gotten hundreds of millions of dollars off the price of a plane that was going to be ordered.”"
 
"Trump is referring to the Lockheed F-35 program. Again, he is taking credit for something that had already been negotiated, a claim that had previously earned him Four Pinocchios. The Pentagon had already announced cost reductions of about $600 million before Trump met with Lockheed’s chief executive."
 
 
"Then, on Jan. 30, Trump claimed he “was able to get $600 million approximately off those planes.”"
 
"But Lockheed already had planned cost reductions. In a Dec. 19 briefing — before Trump began meeting with Hewson — the head of the Defense Department’s F-35 Joint Program Office, Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, announced costs would come down “significantly.” The next stage in the F-35 program’s low-rate initial production was a new batch of 90 airplanes, called Lot 10. Bogdan had estimated that Lot 10 planes would cost “somewhere on the order of 6 to 7 percent per airplane” less than Lot 9 planes.
Between 6 to 7 percent comes out to a cost reduction of between $6.1 million and $7.1 million per plane, or between $549 million and $630 million for a full lot of 90 planes, The Washington Post’s Aaron Gregg reported. This cost reduction is already reflected in the Air Force’s budget."
 
so unless trump wants to also take credit for inventing the flux capacitor...
 
3) trump does indeed spin on obama ties to seven countries
 
"“Now you know the countries we’re talking about. And these were countries picked by Obama.”
 
"Trump is referring to Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia, all of which were subject to the executive order that ordered a travel ban on residents of those countries.
 
"Four of the countries were identified by Congress, in a bill signed by Obama, and then the Obama administration included three more. But Obama — and Democrats in Congress — wanted greater visa scrutiny of people who had traveled to those countries. When given a chance, the Obama administration specifically rejected the citizenship-based restrictions of the kind that Trump ordered. So there were significant differences in the approach."
 
wod's linked fact checker suggests that simple 'cause obama recognized the aforementioned middle-eastern and predominant muslim countries as presenting security concerns, trump ain't spinning.  is not a lie to claim obama and the democrat Congress identified the aforementioned nations, but the claim o' spin is related to how trump uses in a misleading fashion.
 
4) trump does indeed spin polls on optimism.
 
not even gonna bother with the linked quote material as wod's site is... weird.  limiting notions o' american optimism to a single consumer confidence poll while ignoring the many negative approval polls is wacky and pretty much proves politifact's point.
 
as for the sweden thing, is actual kinda funny how trump's willingness to talk w/o thinking has actual become an excuse for a President of the United states of America.  we noted earlier, "am suspecting much o' trump falsehood is less a result o' machination than it is simple his ignorance coupled with impulse control issues." the recognition o' trump's inability to think before saying something stoopid should be cause for alarm rather than some kinda reassurance for the ~40% who voted for trump.  can you imagine if obama had used rachel maddow as an excuse for asad ignoring his "red line" o' chemical warfare. "i saw a news piece on msnbc last night which made me concerned about the appropriateness of increasing the US presence in the middle east."  use random news drops as validation for stoopid comments by a President woulda' resulted in any other President being mocked and ridiculed for weeks or months.  
 
HA! Good Fun!
 
 
 
 
 
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I have to agree with you on that last part especially. Trump gets in front of the microphone and just says stuff. Often taking a half a news story and fabricating the other half with what he "thinks" happened. It's ironic, We were down on Obama because he couldn't even talk to his kids over dinner without a teleprompter and lauded Trump because he never used one. No maybe he should. At least then there will be one gate keeper on his mouth.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Carter was a fool, Reagan was often confused, George H.W. Bush had a tin ear, Clinton was one of the most skilled liars in history, George W. Bush couldn't put two words together, Obama read deliberate lies off a teleprompter, and Trump talks out his ass. Pick your poison.

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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Carter was a fool, Reagan was often confused, George H.W. Bush had a tin ear, Clinton was one of the most skilled liars in history, George W. Bush couldn't put two words together, Obama read deliberate lies off a teleprompter, and Trump talks out his ass. Pick your poison.

Say no to poison. Vote Libertarian!

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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