From the Twitch Q&A: enchanting and ceiling

[blotter]

My thoughts: I wouldn't say there's no hope for those of us who don't like this change, but I don't think there's much hope.

 

If nothing else, Pillars 2 is supposed to be easier to mod. So maybe its a problem we'll be able to fix ourselves.

Edited March 3, 2017 by blotter

[AndreaColombo]

Infinitron just called us "LARPy wierdos" on the Codex. Achievement unlocked, I suppose

[JerekKruger]

Infinitron just called us "LARPy wierdos" on the Codex. Achievement unlocked, I suppose

 

Yet my question didn't even mention appearance.

[Boeroer]

What is the Codex?

[JerekKruger]

What is the Codex?

 

Another forum. Specifically RPGCodex.

Edited March 3, 2017 by JerekKruger

[illathid]

What is the Codex?

 

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany this side of 4chan.

[Boeroer]

I have no time to hang around in more than one forum. How do they do it? Time Stop?

[AndreaColombo]

Lax forum rules

[draego]

Im surprised even some of the rpgcodex post say they dont like the new change. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by jnb0364

[AndreaColombo]

Im surprised even some of the rpgcodex post say they dont like the new change. 

 

You're surprised people on the Codex don't like something?

[limaxophobiacq]

I have no time to hang around in more than one forum. How do they do it?

 

Maybe playing games like PoE for less than 3k hours? 

[JerekKruger]

Maybe playing games like PoE for less than 3k hours? 

 

Don't encourage him to play less. He's already going to be hard pressed posting a build for each of the 1007 multiclass combinations before the first big patch lands!

[Boeroer]

 

I have no time to hang around in more than one forum. How do they do it?

Maybe playing games like PoE for less than 3k hours?

I think we all agree that it's more fun and worth the time to play the game than to talk about it in a forum (can also be fun though). Image the major annoyance I would be in the internetz if I would put 3k hours into posting stuff on different RPG forums. I mean even "more major" than now. "Don't call me major annoyance - call me admiral annoyance". Wait... actually pretty nice name that...

Edited March 4, 2017 by Boeroer

[draego]

Well maybe this will be my first foray into modding, the quality enchantment. Should have paid more attention to modding in POE1. I guess i will try some stuff in POE1 before POE2 comes out just in case this becomes as arbitrary as its looks like it will be. Here's to hoping somehow the level designers put the weapons i like and no one else toward the end of the game so my character can be designed they way i imagined. Screw you guys conception of your builds. It's every avatar for himself at this point Maybe Josh can make this easy for us and make this option configurable is some fashion from a config file or asset file but i prob not.

Edited March 4, 2017 by jnb0364

[JerekKruger]

Making a mod that removes the cap on quality enchantment upgrades is likely to be fairly hard I think, but based on modding items in Pillars I'd think modding individual items to have a higher tier enchantment should be as easy as changing a few text entries once a suitable unpacking tool is released. I reversed the changes to the proc rate of Firebug on the Unlabored Blade after patch 3.05 and all it took was unpacking the appropriate asset bundle and changing a couple of entries from 3 to 10.

[MaxQuest]

So to resume:

 

Pros of no ceiling:

- if there are 100 unique weapons in the game; all 100 will be available in late game as well. This increases the number of unique builds you can come up with.

 

Pros of ceiling:

- "joy of finding new equipment." "The sense of discovery and excitement."

 

I can hardly empathize with the pros of ceiling, as there is also joy in getting "the right weapon" asap, like getting Bittercut as early as lvl 7-8; which kind of compensates for the joy of finding new shinny, because you have just found a shinny that is best-in-slot for your build. On the other hand there are players for whom permanently finding new stuff is important.

 

I suppose both parties would be satisfied if:

V1:

- there was ceiling

- AND there would be 5-7 times more unique weapons and equipment than in PoE1, in order to guarantee enough lategame item variety for building purposes.

 

V2:

- there was no ceiling

- AND the unique weapons/items we find in the mid-late game would have even more unique properties.

Edited March 4, 2017 by MaxQuest

[JerekKruger]

V1 would probably satisfy me, although it's a lot more work for Obsidian. I think V2 would be what I prefer.

[AndreaColombo]

V2 for me.

[draego]

Ye i think everyone on this thread that is apprehensive about this change would want V2 that is what i think most on here are saying.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

So to resume:

 

Pros of no ceiling:

- if there are 100 unique weapons in the game; all 100 will be available in late game as well. This increases the number of unique builds you can come up with.

 

Pros of ceiling:

- "joy of finding new equipment." "The sense of discovery and excitement."

 

I can hardly empathize with the pros of ceiling, as there is also joy in getting "the right weapon" asap, like getting Bittercut as early as lvl 7-8; which kind of compensates for the joy of finding new shinny, because you have just found a shinny that is best-in-slot for your build. On the other hand there are players for whom permanently finding new stuff is important.

 

I suppose both parties would be satisfied if:

V1:

- there was ceiling

- AND there would be 5-7 times more unique weapons and equipment than in PoE1, in order to guarantee enough lategame item variety for building purposes.

 

V2:

- there was no ceiling

- AND the unique weapons/items we find in the mid-late game would have even more unique properties.

 

 

Exactly, yeah, if items have a ceiling, there needs to be about twice as many unique items with overlapping features.

 

In PoE, just as an example, a barbarian could pick up Vile Loner's Lance in Dyrford and play a debuffing barb the rest of the game.

 

In PoE 2, either that won't work or there will need to be another equivalent or superior Vile Loner's Lance later in the game to make that possible.

 

The real answer is PoE 2 needs much deeper itemization either way. Deeper and broader item choices solve the "problem", regardless of what the problem is.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[draego]

Yes i dont think anyone here want every weapon you find in the game to be upgradable to best quality we are just talking about one or two weapons and armor per play through being able to keep up. They dont have to let your entire party do this. I dont understand what is so hard to understand about this for the devs or why this would be such a big deal for other players.

Edited March 4, 2017 by jnb0364

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I should probably admit though that itemization costs money especially in modern gaming where cool weapons usually need a unique graphic model. 

 

Regardless though:

 

1) If the problem is people not finding new cool alternative weapons at higher levels, that can be solved by placing more cool unique weapons at higher levels,  or

 

2) If the problem is people not being able to keep upgrading "build critical" weapons, then there are two ways to solve that : either

•       allow (some limited) upgrades, or
•  
•       make sure that there are high level replacement options for those low level weapons.
•  

 

Either way, what I'd suggest is place high level items with overlapping features with lower level weapons. Don't have just one spear in the whole game that has Disorienting or Marking; have two low level spears, one with disorienting and one with marking, and a high level spear with both (or even better, with some third feature that functions similarly).

 

This was something PoE didn't do well but made up for by allowing constant upgrading. Lots of low level weapons had unique effects (cool!) but there were rarely late-game upgrades for those weapons that had similar effects (bad!). 

For example, the base game only had two magical blunderbusses, and (if you were a cipher at least) the one you found first was clearly superior; the expansions only added one more, and it had the "feature" of casting blind on your party members. 

 

Limiting Leadspitter to only one upgrade doesn't solve the problem of Scon Mica's Roar and Silver Flash sucking, it just makes Leadspitter suck too. 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I should probably clarify that I realize the decision to make items in PoE not overlap with each other was a deliberate design choice; in fact it was a design choice I kinda liked since it led to big variety with minimal investment of resources. And maybe it'd be worthwhile to keep items from *directly* overlapping each other. But (for example) an "extra" damage bonus can be "better" than a "rending" enchant, without *directly* replacing it.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Boeroer]

Go go version 2!

[George_Truman]

V 1 B O Y Z !

[illathid]

So to resume:

 

Pros of no ceiling:

- if there are 100 unique weapons in the game; all 100 will be available in late game as well. This increases the number of unique builds you can come up with.

 

Pros of ceiling:

- "joy of finding new equipment." "The sense of discovery and excitement."

 

I can hardly empathize with the pros of ceiling, as there is also joy in getting "the right weapon" asap, like getting Bittercut as early as lvl 7-8; which kind of compensates for the joy of finding new shinny, because you have just found a shinny that is best-in-slot for your build. On the other hand there are players for whom permanently finding new stuff is important.

 

I suppose both parties would be satisfied if:

V1:

- there was ceiling

- AND there would be 5-7 times more unique weapons and equipment than in PoE1, in order to guarantee enough lategame item variety for building purposes.

 

V2:

- there was no ceiling

- AND the unique weapons/items we find in the mid-late game would have even more unique properties.

 

I'd prefer V1, but I think you're being disingenuous regarding the pros of a ceiling. The biggest pro for me is that the ceiling means there will be more meaningful choice in regard to gearing my character and party.