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One Word - Multiclassing!

IndiraLightfoot
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IndiraLightfoot

IndiraLightfoot

Posted
Posted

I just read over at Fig that if PoE2 will be funded, multi-classing will be a thing!

 

This makes me crazy with glee!

 

Imagine the possibilities, mixing a little Druid with some Paladin. Yummy!

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Gromnir

Gromnir

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Posted

am ambivalent.

 

multi-class offers greater customization opportunities, which is a good thing.  unfortunately, our pnp experience suggests multi-classing actual tends to lead to marginalization o' certain classes, as well as making You Win builds more likely. for a melee combatant, why not take a level (or perhaps 3) o' rogue, but why take more?  and like it or not, the community is gonna find over-the-top builds.  why should we care 'bout OP builds? first o' all, best builds tend to act as lodestones.  sure, there may be limitless possible combinations o' class and talents and whatnot, but all the possibilities become pointless if most people only utilize a handful o' best builds.  also, op builds is bad 'cause the two most common complaints in every game ever made by obsidian/black isle has been as follows:

 

the game is too hard

 

the game is too easy

 

is hard enough to balance a game when you know that regardless o' your efforts, the above two complaints will be constant. to try and balance a game for many purchasers who play superpowered deathknights as well for people who play vanilla paladins is making the balance challenges faced by the developer all the more difficult.  sure, is a single player game, folks can play as difficult or easy as they wish, but it not change how folks feel.  still gonna get people complain.

 

the game is too hard

 

the game is too easy

 

am thinking the obsidians need allow for a more expansive beta to let the hardcore build maniacs work out the kinks in the system.  the poe beta were good for Gromnir as it didn't spoil the game, but am thinking greater access to full level character build options would be helpful. need present a greater range o' player options and challenges for players to test so developers can avoid d&d 3e multiclassing nonsense. 

 

don't give us more o' the game in the poe 2 beta than we saw in poe, but perhaps create an arena or scaling option to more accurate test a full range o' builds.  dunno.  bad multi-classing can break a good game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 6

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think, there is a lesson in Nwn 2 : it's -more or less- useless to equilibrate ! There is always a way to maxi-optimize.

 

It is a pleasure for me to optimize my way to play with all the tools given by the developpers.

 

So, by definition, for me the game will tend to be easier. And I claim it : it's absolutely normal for this kind of games.

Edited by theBalthazar
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jones092201

jones092201

Posted
Posted

am ambivalent.

 

multi-class offers greater customization opportunities, which is a good thing.  unfortunately, our pnp experience suggests multi-classing actual tends to lead to marginalization o' certain classes, as well as making You Win builds more likely. for a melee combatant, why not take a level (or perhaps 3) o' rogue, but why take more?  and like it or not, the community is gonna find over-the-top builds.  why should we care 'bout OP builds? first o' all, best builds tend to act as lodestones.  sure, there may be limitless possible combinations o' class and talents and whatnot, but all the possibilities become pointless if most people only utilize a handful o' best builds.  also, op builds is bad 'cause the two most common complaints in every game ever made by obsidian/black isle has been as follows:

 

the game is too hard

 

the game is too easy

 

is hard enough to balance a game when you know that regardless o' your efforts, the above two complaints will be constant. to try and balance a game for many purchasers who play superpowered deathknights as well for people who play vanilla paladins is making the balance challenges faced by the developer all the more difficult.  sure, is a single player game, folks can play as difficult or easy as they wish, but it not change how folks feel.  still gonna get people complain.

 

the game is too hard

 

the game is too easy

 

am thinking the obsidians need allow for a more expansive beta to let the hardcore build maniacs work out the kinks in the system.  the poe beta were good for Gromnir as it didn't spoil the game, but am thinking greater access to full level character build options would be helpful. need present a greater range o' player options and challenges for players to test so developers can avoid d&d 3e multiclassing nonsense. 

 

don't give us more o' the game in the poe 2 beta than we saw in poe, but perhaps create an arena or scaling option to more accurate test a full range o' builds.  dunno.  bad multi-classing can break a good game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 feel the same way.

cautiously hopeful they've come up with something good, but I would have preferred kits, ala BG II, for my off-tank rogue or my spellsword...

in the end, i'm very glad Obsidian is thinking this way, however.

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draego

draego

Posted
Posted

Ye i am skeptical about this one. If you pull abilities directly from other classes like people seem to think then you get crazy op builds that you cannot balance the game for. I am curious what Obs has in mind. I am sure it will be interesting. 

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floredon

floredon

Posted
Posted

I like it, and given Josh's credo of making any build viable, there will be alot of work for people to do to make sure that each and every class combination is viable. Maybe they will end up limiting the multiclassing options to exclude ones that wouldn't work out well at endgame.

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Madscientist

Madscientist

Posted
Posted (edited)

I like it.

 

@gromnir:

- There will be more or less powerful chars in any game where you have any significant choice in character creation.

- There will be lots of "The game is too easy" and "The game is too hard" discussions anyway.

I guess there will be more people who say it is to easy. I guess power gamers who finished triple crown solo in PoE1 will be more active in the forums than new players who quit after they die 10 times in a row.

Edited by Madscientist
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theBalthazar

theBalthazar

Posted
Posted (edited)

Personnaly, if I want play a role, I play on table.

 

Here, it is a video-game. For me, pleasure of possibilities is more important than pseudo-logic. I'm rolist but when I was playing to NWN 2, I wanted a solid build.

 

Like said higher, Josh will certainly proceed to a basic balancing for limit total abuse but it's globaly a cool and very GOOD^^ idea.

Edited by theBalthazar
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Ganrich

Ganrich

Posted
Posted

Personnaly, if I want play a role, I play on table.

 

Here, it is a video-game. For me, pleasure of possibilities is more important than pseudo-logic. I'm rolist but when I was playing to NWN 2, I wanted a solid build.

 

Like said higher, Josh will certainly proceed to a basic balancing for limit total abuse but it's globaly a cool and very GOOD^^ idea.

Pretty much the same feeling here. The versatility of builds allowed by Multi-classing increases playability for these types of games. As long as Obsidian does it in a way to tone down any seriously broken builds (too good and too bad) then I'm on board, and Josh will bring the balance.

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evilcat

evilcat

Posted
Posted

It probably will not be that big deal. In DnD casters are not so good at multiclass, since your high level spells are probably better than anything other class can bring.

There may be however some powerful dips, like 1 level chanter and stacking party songs.

Paladin defenses buff is good. Also any form of sneak attack.

But generallty good new. If i ever feel that fighter will be so much more fun with a bit of focus powers or 1/2 spells, here is the option. And best option is to have options.

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gibonez

gibonez

Posted
Posted

Multiclassing will be the most difficult thing to balance of the entire game...

Shapeshifting druid + carnage/torment reach?

Wizard + deathblows?

Paladin + dragon trashed?

Too many imba possibilities...

 

It's a single player RPG. Class balancing should not be that important.

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