The US Election 2016, Part VI

[Hurlshort]

That's just common sense, it isn't cryptic.  Of course he has more flexibility after he has been elected for a second term.  He know longer needs to worry about being elected, his campaigning days are behind him.  People chasing shadows.  

[Zoraptor]

Meh, Trump was right about Putin so far as it goes- he's a far stronger/ more decisive leader than Obama. But that's the system as much as anything, Obama just plain cannot be as strong a leader. Stalin was a stronger leader than Putin, you can even argue that Stalin was a better leader than Putin as well despite his obvious faults. Neither means the US should be electing a Putin or Stalin analogue.

 

And while people love saying crap about Russia she regularly makes the US dance to its tune despite being far weaker. Not many you can say that for. Even the 'Putin is manipulating the election' rubbish reinforces that part of the narrative.

 

Damn, almost feel sorry for her

 

I do feel sorry for her, on the health issues at least.

 

On the political aspects she's again been her own worst enemy though. Right down to the cringe inducing photo op with the 'spontaneous' little girl outside Chelsea's apartment, as if pictures of that would displace her being half carried into a van from the news.

[quidproquo]

That's just common sense, it isn't cryptic.  Of course he has more flexibility after he has been elected for a second term.  He know longer needs to worry about being elected, his campaigning days are behind him.  People chasing shadows.  

don't doubt you, man, but if that's the case, why not say it directly to the mic instead of having it caught on a hot mic by accident?

[BruceVC]

Meh, Trump was right about Putin so far as it goes- he's a far stronger/ more decisive leader than Obama. But that's the system as much as anything, Obama just plain cannot be as strong a leader. Stalin was a stronger leader than Putin, you can even argue that Stalin was a better leader than Putin as well despite his obvious faults. Neither means the US should be electing a Putin or Stalin analogue.

 

And while people love saying crap about Russia she regularly makes the US dance to its tune despite being far weaker. Not many you can say that for. Even the 'Putin is manipulating the election' rubbish reinforces that part of the narrative.

 

Damn, almost feel sorry for her

 

I do feel sorry for her, on the health issues at least.

 

On the political aspects she's again been her own worst enemy though. Right down to the cringe inducing photo op with the 'spontaneous' little girl outside Chelsea's apartment, as if pictures of that would displace her being half carried into a van from the news.

What a surprise, you  would find Putin a stronger leader 

 

Lets see ...Putin has destroyed the Russian economy, controls the media, has murdered journalists and illegally annexed parts of Georgia and Ukraine...yeah what a leader

 

And  you think he is more decisive than Obama, really? According to you and the Putin get- a-long-gang he was going to invade Turkey to teach them a lesson, actually defeat ISIS and " make a real difference in Syria because Putin knows how to get results " 

 

But he has been inconsistent in the bombing campaign,  bombed hospitals and killed innocents and failed to win the war in Syria...and now they need the USA to end the war.....yes that's very decisive Zora 

[Wrath of Dagon]

Got to make sure the enemy has the best tech: http://observer.com/2016/08/hillarys-secret-kremlin-connection-is-quickly-unraveling/

[Pidesco]

 

 

 

 

I was far more offended when Barack Obama & Janet Napolitano questioned my patriotism by calling me a likely terrorist since I am a veteran and I actually agree with freedom and individual liberty being what this country is all about. Hillary Clinton is a liar and not a good example of the best the human race has to offer. But right now she is nobody. A candidate. She thinks 47% if America is deplorable? So what? If she actually wins this election it becomes a problem.

 

By the way Bruce, have you contemplated how much crow you will have to eat if Trump actually wins this thing? Better chew it good! 

 

She didn't say that in any way.

 

I stand corrected. She said half of Trump's supporters were in a basket of deplorables. Not that that is an improvement. But hey, at least she only insulted 25% of Americans. Obama insulted us all last week.

 

 

I'd say that 25% of Americans being xenophobes is a fairly conservative estimate. Not that the statistics are any different for other nationalities, though.

 

So the problem with her statement is not that it is untrue but rather that it is offensive. I wonder why Trump and his supporters, of all people, are complainingt. Aren't they on the side of the straight talkers who tell it like it is?

 

I really don't think this is true. Immigrants are welcome here like nowhere else. We just ask that you do it legally! 

 

But on your larger point I disagree completely and emphatically that even 25% of us are xenophobic. I thought about all the people I know and could only come up with one but that guy hates everyone. Now I don't know enough people to constitute a sample size but speaking as someone who actually lives here... that is way off base. 

 

 

 

Actually, despite the USA having become a great country in part precisely due to immigration, the population has always been seriously xenophobic to new immigrants, be they Irish, Chinese, Polish, Italian or whatever you want. Nativism has always been a sizeable seedy undercurrent of US culture, and Trump's candidacy isn't the first time that nativism coalesces into a political force. In fact, immigration was immensely reduced after the 1920s precisely due to laws that were passed due to heavy lobbying from nativists,

 

Again, this is not an attack on American culture, as nativist sentiment is certainly not exclusive to the US, as the growth of far right movements in Europe attests to.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

 

I was far more offended when Barack Obama & Janet Napolitano questioned my patriotism by calling me a likely terrorist since I am a veteran and I actually agree with freedom and individual liberty being what this country is all about. Hillary Clinton is a liar and not a good example of the best the human race has to offer. But right now she is nobody. A candidate. She thinks 47% if America is deplorable? So what? If she actually wins this election it becomes a problem.

 

By the way Bruce, have you contemplated how much crow you will have to eat if Trump actually wins this thing? Better chew it good! 

 

She didn't say that in any way.

 

I stand corrected. She said half of Trump's supporters were in a basket of deplorables. Not that that is an improvement. But hey, at least she only insulted 25% of Americans. Obama insulted us all last week.

 

 

I'd say that 25% of Americans being xenophobes is a fairly conservative estimate. Not that the statistics are any different for other nationalities, though.

 

So the problem with her statement is not that it is untrue but rather that it is offensive. I wonder why Trump and his supporters, of all people, are complainingt. Aren't they on the side of the straight talkers who tell it like it is?

 

I really don't think this is true. Immigrants are welcome here like nowhere else. We just ask that you do it legally! 

 

But on your larger point I disagree completely and emphatically that even 25% of us are xenophobic. I thought about all the people I know and could only come up with one but that guy hates everyone. Now I don't know enough people to constitute a sample size but speaking as someone who actually lives here... that is way off base. 

 

 

 

Actually, despite the USA having become a great country in part precisely due to immigration, the population has always been seriously xenophobic to new immigrants, be they Irish, Chinese, Polish, Italian or whatever you want. Nativism has always been a sizeable seedy undercurrent of US culture, and Trump's candidacy isn't the first time that nativism coalesces into a political force. In fact, immigration was immensely reduced after the 1920s precisely due to laws that were passed due to heavy lobbying from nativists,

 

Again, this is not an attack on American culture, as nativist sentiment is certainly not exclusive to the US, as the growth of far right movements in Europe attests to.

 

No it's not an attack, I just don't think it's correct. Oh is the past it has been for sure. But not so much anymore. Now there is an lot of antipathy for illegal immigrants. It's hard to embrace folks who sneak in. 

[Hurlshort]

 

That's just common sense, it isn't cryptic.  Of course he has more flexibility after he has been elected for a second term.  He know longer needs to worry about being elected, his campaigning days are behind him.  People chasing shadows.  

don't doubt you, man, but if that's the case, why not say it directly to the mic instead of having it caught on a hot mic by accident?

 

 

Most people talk differently in one on one conversations than in speeches and interviews.  This was about missile defense, I believe.  The way to tell if this was some shadowy deal is pretty simple, did something sketchy happen with the missile defense plan?  

[quidproquo]

Most people talk differently in one on one conversations than in speeches and interviews.  This was about missile defense, I believe.  The way to tell if this was some shadowy deal is pretty simple, did something sketchy happen with the missile defense plan?

Doesn't pass the smell taste, mate, but then again, you have a point.

 

When was there not something sketchy happening with any missile defense plan?

[licketysplit]

So at first it was allergies. Then overheating. Now it's pneumonia. They rattled these excuses out in the space of a few hours. Hillary's campaign can't keep this charade up. 

 

[Elerond]

 

Meh, Trump was right about Putin so far as it goes- he's a far stronger/ more decisive leader than Obama. But that's the system as much as anything, Obama just plain cannot be as strong a leader. Stalin was a stronger leader than Putin, you can even argue that Stalin was a better leader than Putin as well despite his obvious faults. Neither means the US should be electing a Putin or Stalin analogue.

 

And while people love saying crap about Russia she regularly makes the US dance to its tune despite being far weaker. Not many you can say that for. Even the 'Putin is manipulating the election' rubbish reinforces that part of the narrative.

 

Damn, almost feel sorry for her

 

I do feel sorry for her, on the health issues at least.

 

On the political aspects she's again been her own worst enemy though. Right down to the cringe inducing photo op with the 'spontaneous' little girl outside Chelsea's apartment, as if pictures of that would displace her being half carried into a van from the news.

What a surprise, you  would find Putin a stronger leader 

 

Lets see ...Putin has destroyed the Russian economy, controls the media, has murdered journalists and illegally annexed parts of Georgia and Ukraine...yeah what a leader

 

And  you think he is more decisive than Obama, really? According to you and the Putin get- a-long-gang he was going to invade Turkey to teach them a lesson, actually defeat ISIS and " make a real difference in Syria because Putin knows how to get results " 

 

But he has been inconsistent in the bombing campaign,  bombed hospitals and killed innocents and failed to win the war in Syria...and now they need the USA to end the war.....yes that's very decisive Zora 

 

 

Putin is strong leader in sense that his opposition in Russia is weak, his foreign policies are supported by significant economical and military power that he can use quite freely. But fact that he is strong leader don't mean that he is necessary good leader or leader that one should look as example how to run you country. But in foreign politics he should not be ignored or underestimated, because he is in control of significant resources and is in position to drive through his own agenda, which is why it is important (for president of USA) to understand what that agenda is and how you can negotiate with him. 

[Bokishi]

Wut

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/775093724363784192

[quidproquo]

Wut

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/775093724363784192

Probably the most surprise I've had from a post here.  Wut indeed!

[Volourn]

"That's just common sense, it isn't cryptic.  Of course he has more flexibility after he has been elected for a second term.  He know longer needs to worry about being elected, his campaigning days are behind him.  People chasing shadows."

 

ie. He no longer needs to care what the people he works for think. He can now be even more nazish and do what he wants including spam his hateful racism nonsense. Not to mention helping the enemy like Iran, North korea, and ISIS. R00fles!

 

 

"Again, this is not an attack on American culture, as nativist sentiment is certainly not exclusive to the US, as the growth of far right movements in Europe attests to."

 

Interetsing that you mention Europe which is another  majority of white nations ignoring the multitude of non white nations/continent that are extremely anti anyone different than them. I mean that is basically what the whole Sunni vs Shiite nonsense. That's why most ME countries treat their Palestinian populations like crap. And, we all know how Asian countries tend to feel about outsiders. L0L

 

But, yeah,  point out the other 'white'; continent'. Your subconcious racism is showing. I get it. Only whites can be racist ort xenophobic. R00fles!

[BruceVC]

 

 

Meh, Trump was right about Putin so far as it goes- he's a far stronger/ more decisive leader than Obama. But that's the system as much as anything, Obama just plain cannot be as strong a leader. Stalin was a stronger leader than Putin, you can even argue that Stalin was a better leader than Putin as well despite his obvious faults. Neither means the US should be electing a Putin or Stalin analogue.

 

And while people love saying crap about Russia she regularly makes the US dance to its tune despite being far weaker. Not many you can say that for. Even the 'Putin is manipulating the election' rubbish reinforces that part of the narrative.

 

Damn, almost feel sorry for her

 

I do feel sorry for her, on the health issues at least.

 

On the political aspects she's again been her own worst enemy though. Right down to the cringe inducing photo op with the 'spontaneous' little girl outside Chelsea's apartment, as if pictures of that would displace her being half carried into a van from the news.

What a surprise, you  would find Putin a stronger leader 

 

Lets see ...Putin has destroyed the Russian economy, controls the media, has murdered journalists and illegally annexed parts of Georgia and Ukraine...yeah what a leader

 

And  you think he is more decisive than Obama, really? According to you and the Putin get- a-long-gang he was going to invade Turkey to teach them a lesson, actually defeat ISIS and " make a real difference in Syria because Putin knows how to get results " 

 

But he has been inconsistent in the bombing campaign,  bombed hospitals and killed innocents and failed to win the war in Syria...and now they need the USA to end the war.....yes that's very decisive Zora 

 

 

Putin is strong leader in sense that his opposition in Russia is weak, his foreign policies are supported by significant economical and military power that he can use quite freely. But fact that he is strong leader don't mean that he is necessary good leader or leader that one should look as example how to run you country. But in foreign politics he should not be ignored or underestimated, because he is in control of significant resources and is in position to drive through his own agenda, which is why it is important (for president of USA) to understand what that agenda is and how you can negotiate with him. 

 

Putin is a dictator and again he has driven his economy into the ground

 

Yes Russia has a role to play in global politics, Russia sits on the UNSC. But he hasn't exactly completed any military campaigns lately

 

 

But how can anyone suggest he is a  better leader than Obama is false ....Obama has not destroyed the US economy and has avoided getting the USA into numerous conflicts 

[Malcador]

Wut

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidShuster/status/775093724363784192

Wait, who is he and how does he know that ?

 

Kind of weird to say the story changes when it comes to an illness, heh. Ah, people.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Malcador

[Volourn]

"But how can anyone suggest he is a  better leader than Obama is false ....Obama has not destroyed the US economy and has avoided getting the USA into numerous conflicts"

 

HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Wrath of Dagon]

She's been having problems for a while, pretty long time to have pneumonia. Also pneumonia can easily kill you, especially at that age. Not something you want to run around with.

[Agiel]

 

Putin is strong leader in sense that his opposition in Russia is weak, his foreign policies are supported by significant economical and military power that he can use quite freely. But fact that he is strong leader don't mean that he is necessary good leader or leader that one should look as example how to run you country. But in foreign politics he should not be ignored or underestimated, because he is in control of significant resources and is in position to drive through his own agenda, which is why it is important (for president of USA) to understand what that agenda is and how you can negotiate with him. 

 

 

I do think Obama's administration and the rest of the world understands him, which is why there have been ample opportunities for Putin to cash out early and still come out on top and have business go on as usual up until mid to late 2013 when Putin started his new Cold War. Assad could have been "asked" to step down willingly by Putin to live comfortably in exile in some Black Sea dacha while a general with at least mildly less blood on his hands took his place. He could have let Maidan run its course and Ukraine would likely have kept going on as it has while periodically vacillating back into Russia's camp, and now it's unlikely it will ever return to Russia's fold (barring full scale invasion). Putin could have contented himself with Crimea and while it would remain a sticking point like Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Transnistria it would be something the rest of the world could work through. Now he has the blood of thousands (plus that of the 298 people on MH17) on his hands and millions of displaced. Simply put, just like Trump with this campaign, Putin has too big of an ego to walk away while he still had money in his pocket.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Agiel

[Zoraptor]

She's been having problems for a while, pretty long time to have pneumonia. Also pneumonia can easily kill you, especially at that age. Not something you want to run around with.

 

Pneumonia can last a long time, especially if you don't take the time off you need- and it varies in severity. I actually had near exactly the same thing happen to me as happened to Hillary after an extended period (weeks, possibly months) of coughing and shortness of breath which was never quite bad enough to go see a doctor or take time off for. Then I mowed the lawns and started hyperventilating uncontrollably afterwards. After some antibiotics and a few days of proper rest it was fine*. Definitely more of a worry for a 70 year old than someone half her age though.

 

*except for caffeine intolerance, which I got as an added bonus.

 

 

 

Putin is strong leader in sense that his opposition in Russia is weak, his foreign policies are supported by significant economical and military power that he can use quite freely. But fact that he is strong leader don't mean that he is necessary good leader or leader that one should look as example how to run you country.

 

 

Yep. No point saying that to Bruce though, he lacks the basic reading comprehension to know the difference between 'stronger' and 'better' deliberately misunderstands for purposes of trolling.

 

Putin is a stronger leader than Obama, but I'd still vote for Obama over him any day of the week and twice on sundays (thanks, poor roboballot security).

[Bokishi]

New conspiracy! Healthy Hillary walking out was a double. Nose not the same, walking alone without SS agents. I guess understandable with the new pneumonia diagnosis

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

She's been having problems for a while, pretty long time to have pneumonia. Also pneumonia can easily kill you, especially at that age. Not something you want to run around with.

 

Pneumonia can last a long time, especially if you don't take the time off you need- and it varies in severity. I actually had near exactly the same thing happen to me as happened to Hillary after an extended period (weeks, possibly months) of coughing and shortness of breath which was never quite bad enough to go see a doctor or take time off for. Then I mowed the lawns and started hyperventilating uncontrollably afterwards. After some antibiotics and a few days of proper rest it was fine*. Definitely more of a worry for a 70 year old than someone half her age though.

 

*except for caffeine intolerance, which I got as an added bonus.

 

But she was being seen by a doctor all the time, how wasn't the pneumonia diagnosed? And why was she allowed to proceed with her schedule after the diagnosis? I knew a fairly young guy who died from pneumonia in two days, you have to take it very seriously.

[quidproquo]

To be fair to Clinton and her doctor, they undoubtedly don't consult every single day and it would be a sure sign of something amiss if they did. She might be rich but does she dish the quid to have her doctor retained personally and travel in her entourage? If she does, then clearly she is having more health issues than she owned.

[Hurlshort]

As I said before, Clinton is clearly the kind of person that will work herself to death.  Admirable that she is so committed to her goal, but not exactly ideal if she is already having health issues before the election.  The job doesn't get easier.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

She's been having problems for a while, pretty long time to have pneumonia. Also pneumonia can easily kill you, especially at that age. Not something you want to run around with.

 

Pneumonia can last a long time, especially if you don't take the time off you need- and it varies in severity. I actually had near exactly the same thing happen to me as happened to Hillary after an extended period (weeks, possibly months) of coughing and shortness of breath which was never quite bad enough to go see a doctor or take time off for. Then I mowed the lawns and started hyperventilating uncontrollably afterwards. After some antibiotics and a few days of proper rest it was fine*. Definitely more of a worry for a 70 year old than someone half her age though.

 

*except for caffeine intolerance, which I got as an added bonus.

 

But she was being seen by a doctor all the time, how wasn't the pneumonia diagnosed? And why was she allowed to proceed with her schedule after the diagnosis? I knew a fairly young guy who died from pneumonia in two days, you have to take it very seriously.

 

 

I'd imagine the diagnosis came today, otherwise they would have managed things a lot better. As for the diagnosis itself we don't know when she last saw the doctor but pneumonia is tricky as it's more of a symptom than a specific disease (and thus has multiple causes) and has degrees of severity, so you can have a chest infection from a potential pneumonia causing source without it being actual pneumonia. Plus, a lot of the symptoms are not very specific, like tiredness or shortness of breath or coughing. She doesn't have severe pneumonia- clearly, she'd be in bed at least if not hospital if so- so it was probably a mild pneumonia and exhaustion combination that caused her collapse today. From a forthright person it probably wouldn't be much of a big deal either, but Hillary's tendency to obfuscation doesn't serve her well at all, again.