optimal starting stats and late-game signifficance for wizard

[Vorad]

Hey everyone, out of all classes the wizard is my favorite one and usually I do several playthroughs with different races for some of the classes that I like.

 

My usual starting stats comprised of max 18 DEX, 18 PER, 18 INT, min 3 CON, 3 RES, remaining 15 MIG. The stats do not take under account racial/background bonuses. However lately I have been considering the late-game powergaming and it seems to me that maybe Perception although really nice in the beginning in the late-game might not be so significant as Might. Due to gear and levels eventually we will get enough accuracy to cross the necessary threshold for a safe "to Hit" however one does not gain Might so easily or better extra %damage through just leveling.

 

Of course we also need to consider the interrupt that Perception grants in order to evaluate the utility of the two stats but so far it seems to me that maybe if we plan for a late-game build one should be maximizing his Might before Perception.

 

The way I see it now(in contrast to what I used to think when Perception got buffed) is DEX > INT > MIG > PER in that order. While an extra 5 accuracy in early game might mean a lot, in the late-game is not such a big deal when compared to an extra 15%damage bonus.

 

Thoughts?

 

PS: What is your favorite race apart from wood elf?

[Wolken3156]

I personally think INT > MIG > PER >= DEX. A lot of the Wizard's best damage spells are multi-hitting or damage over time so ideally you want a high Might score to punch through DR. Deleterious Alacrity of Motion gives a lot of Attack Speed so I think DEX isn't as valuable, but it is an important stat nonetheless. I still find PER very useful for a late game Wizard since it does directly increase your chances of critting. A Freezing Pillar that crits with every hit is incredibly damaging. Also as you mentioned, PER does effect Interrupts, of which Wizards are among the best at. Being able to get pass a Dragon's Concentration is incredibly helpful.

 

As for race, I usually prefer Wood Elf if I'm going pure ranged. Race doesn't really matter too much for a Wizard though IMO.

[srlapo]

You might not be considering the fact that higher "to hit" means higher critical chance as well, and that works for both combat damage and effect time.

[Braven]

One thing to keep in mind is that crits add 50% duration to status effects, something might can't do and makes a bigger impact than just damage. Similarly, a graze reduces the duration by 50% and should be avoided at all cost. If you prefer those types of spells over the pure, raw damage ones, PER might be preferable. Faction choice (the one benefiting crits) or weapon choice (durgan steel?) could also make Perception more enticing.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Mocker22]

I think your stat allocation is quite good. Just be careful!

 

There are many ways to increase might if you want to. Without going into spoilers too much you can get +3 might permenantly through quests and actions, as well as +4 from an item. +3 From resting bonus, +3 from food, +10 from Champions Boon(which gives per too for more crits!) So in theory your 15 might could be 35+ easily. I wouldn't sacrifice something for another 6-9% damage.

 

IMO Per is extremely important. Critting frequently not only helps your damage a ton but also spell durations. As mentioned above wizards can interrupt with the best of them. High Per and interrupting Blows talent coupled with debuffs from yourself or other party members to Resolve or concentration, and you can really lock in down with Wall spells, chill fog, etc.

 

I think a Wood Elf with your exact stats might be my choice for a really power-gamey wizard that was intended to lay down some serious dps and contribute a bit of CC too.

[Braven]

My favorite race, depends on the build, stats, and play style I am looking for. I don't think there is a strictly best race.

 

For a typical wizard: wood elf (if not melee based) or wild orlan is always solid. Even if you are mostly melee-based wood elf is very good for the defensive range bonus and occasional ranged spell you cast. Also nice if you start out battles with a gun/arbalest. If hearth Orlan works with AOE spells, or you plan to melee, that would be good too (if not soloing).

 

I think god-likes are a lot worse now because hats have become so much better. Some offer status immunities which would be sad to lose. No one wants a confused wizard.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[MaxQuest]

The way I see it now(in contrast to what I used to think when Perception got buffed) is DEX > INT > MIG > PER in that order. While an extra 5 accuracy in early game might mean a lot, in the late-game is not such a big deal when compared to an extra 15%damage bonus.

Thoughts?

Depends on what kind of wizard you are building. On one you can have low might, on another dex. One some you can get away with just 12 int.

 

PS: What is your favorite race apart from wood elf?

For classic wizard it's wood elf. For citzal wizard hmm, probably fire godlike, pale elf or coastal aumaua. For control freak it's wild orlan. Edited March 1, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Vorad]

Fair points so far guys thanks for the ideas.

My typical wizard is a wood elf interrupter but I'm starting to get bored and thought of making some small changes. Now I'm running with a moon goodlike maxing intellect(20) > dex > might > per and wearing clothes. The idea was to maximize the aoe range first and then direct damage. There's not a big difference however so far in comparison to my cookie-cutter build apart from the 60% aoe range starting bonus. It's nice because it applies to everything included Kalakoth's.

[MaxQuest]

But... why moon godlike?

[Ymarsakar]

But... why moon godlike?

 

Might be nice when stacking dangerous implement plus deleterious alacrity.

[Vorad]

 

But... why moon godlike?

 

Might be nice when stacking dangerous implement plus deleterious alacrity.

 

^^ +1

Also since I'm dropping con to 3 the racial proc is quite nice and on top of that goodlike is the only race that allows us to start with 20 INT.

[Mocker22]

While int is great on a wizard I think it is possible to go overboard. 20 might be unnecessary. Self buffs last a long time already, CC duration bonus is nice but if you land a powerful CC, especially later on, you should be able to end the fight fast. While int 20 is very good I feel like those points would be more beneficial elsewhere. You get numerous +2 int items very early in the game and throughout playing can get passive boosts to int or use food, resting, etc if you really need more. I think 18 is about as high as I would go for a base stat

[Wolken3156]

While int is great on a wizard I think it is possible to go overboard.

 

You can NEVER have enough!

[DreamWayfarer]

You can NEVER have enough!

I think that applies to any stat, except maybe DEX after you reach the point everything is pratically instant anyway.

[Gromnir]

people have a tendency to overthink attribute allocation in poe.  starting attributes is so important in other games that one expects it to be similar important in poe, but is difficult to accidental build a bad poe character.  sure, if you purposeful choose talents and abilities that do not work well with your attributes, then you can gimp your character, but is actual harder than one might s'pose.

 

most o' our characters have very similar attribute spreads:

 

m 10-15

c 8-10

d 9-12

p 11-15

i  14-19

r  11-19

 

our current potd, hearth orlan, priest o' eothas

 

m 14

c 9

d 10

p 15

i 15

r 15

 

our current  potd, wild orlan, dracozzi paladini

 

m 10

c 10

d 9

p 14

i 19

r 16

 

play a mage? we would likely go with the same spread as our priest.  why?  we like to have the cerebral attributes high enough so that we get those dialogue options we feel is most interesting... w/o resorting to metagaming and wh0re bonuses n' such. start with 15s in perception, intellect and resolve and you will be able to achieve favorable dialogue options with little effort.  get the most outta dialogues w/o resorting to metagame is Gromnir's idea o' optimal, 'cause the power difference 'tween an optimal attribute spread and our more dialogue focused spread becomes negligible relative early in the game.  poe attributes are important, but not determinative. ability, talent and playstyle choices is at least as important as is attributes when attempting to predict success in poe.  

 

anything other than a tcs build is gonna have us unconcerned 'bout min-maxing attributes.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Odd Hermit]

I personally think INT > MIG > PER >= DEX. A lot of the Wizard's best damage spells are multi-hitting or damage over time so ideally you want a high Might score to punch through DR. Deleterious Alacrity of Motion gives a lot of Attack Speed so I think DEX isn't as valuable, but it is an important stat nonetheless. I still find PER very useful for a late game Wizard since it does directly increase your chances of critting. A Freezing Pillar that crits with every hit is incredibly damaging. Also as you mentioned, PER does effect Interrupts, of which Wizards are among the best at. Being able to get pass a Dragon's Concentration is incredibly helpful.

 

As for race, I usually prefer Wood Elf if I'm going pure ranged. Race doesn't really matter too much for a Wizard though IMO.

 

Per > Int > Dex > Mig for me.

 

Perception is at the top because it affects your damage output and how long your spells last, or whether they even hit. It's not too bad missing a few weapon attacks, but missing a high level spell sucks so much more. At least if you're on PotD, it's my no brainer max attribute for Wizard(as well as Druid, Priest, Cipher).

 

Int is obviously important for durations and AoE, and should be 18-19.

 

Dex is arguable, but Wizard CC is more important than Wizard damage so I place getting CCs off quickly over doing more damage, because that's a Wizard's strong point - on demand powerful disables.

[Anaeme]

Perception:

 

 

Perception affects 2 important stats - Interrupt and Accuracy

 

A wizard with high perception and interrupting blows can do wonders with DOT spells...even low level spells like Chill Fog

[Boeroer]

Good that you point that out - it's often overlooked. Same with the druid and Insect Plague for example. Not only damages like crazy but also interrupts like crazy with the right stats and talents.

 

Good thing a wizard also has spells that lower concentration - one of the best is Expose Vulnerabilities. You can also get that from The GOlden Gaze sceptre. If you combine that with Alacrity and Blast it will trigger that spell very often.

[Vorad]

@Wolken3156: My thoughts exactly

 

By the way while talking about wizards I think the ring of  searing flames might be buged. Every time I cast combusting wounds through it it's always autohit. Is that working as intended? - Might require to file a bug report.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Vorad

[MaxQuest]

 You can NEVER have enough!

I think that applies to any stat, except maybe DEX after you reach the point everything is pratically instant anyway.

To any stat except PER

Once you have  acc >= enemy_def + 100; or acc >= enemy_def + 50 plus 100% hit to crit conversion; getting more acc no longer increases dps. It's not like it's feasible to achieve those numbers through.