The Rape of Europe

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

'Cos Tajikistan knows better tan 'urop

 

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2016/01/21/tajikistan-removes-headscarves-from-1700-women-and-shaves-beards-off-13000-men-to-tackle-jihadism/

What a bizarre thing to do, this is only going to increase animosity from the Muslim community in Tajikistan

 

 

Tajikistan is a muslim country you doofus

 

Yes I know but if you read the article it says the government is secular ....I suppose I meant to say " this will increase Muslim extremism " 

 

But the whole country looks very dysfunctional on various levels

 

Maybe they are trying to fix that dysfunction? Mind you shaving beards is just stupid but trying to get womens back to social life and push their husbands to disband shackles of oppression doesnt sound that bad. Still the way is wrong, nothing forced ever worked

 

Well if they really wanted to fix that dysfunction then maybe the president could resign as he has been in power since 1994....and presidents for life don't work. So I dont have much time for any country that isn't prepared to fix fundamentals 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

[BruceVC]

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

[Volourn]

Forcing people to shave is EVIL. Having a beard doesn't make one a terrorist. Only psychopaths think that.

[Elerond]

 

Those don't look like sniper rifles but sport rifles (light rifles used in biathlon)

 

 

The basics are the same. Most people start with a small caliber iron-sighted rifle and work their way up to scoped precision rifle, thats the usual procedure for marksmanship training. 

Trigger discipline, stance, breath control, heartbeat, patience etc. is required when shooting any rifle. 

 

 

For basic shooting part is similar, but actual sniper training has actually includes quite lot other things (like how you camouflage yourself in different environments, how to work with spotter, how to work as part of greater operation, and of course other basic stuff that is taught for every serviceman) at least in Finnish Defence Forces (where shooting training is started with assault rifles RK-62/92 or RK-95 and then in specialized training they move to TKIV 2000 or TKIV 85). 

 

Meaning that one learns how to shoot with all sorts of rifles from biathlon training (at least basic stuff), but that alone don't school one to become actually sniper at least not in military terms.

 

In Finland one of our national sports is called Pesäpallo (which is also its English name, probably to prevent people mixing it with baseball which would be direct translation for it), it is designed to teach people basics of grenade throwing and throw them accurately in variety of distances. It is sport that is taught to people from day they first go to school to day they finish it. Also orienteering is sport that is taught in schools that is meant to give students basics about how to move and navigate in nature which are necessary skills for soldiers in Finland. And lot of other sports that are taught in our schools have similar purposes. So biathlon is not alone if we want to ban all sports that could be counted as preparing people becoming as terrorists. Also if we want to make immigrants/refugees as part of our society they need to learn those skills so that they can use them if necessary against great yellow country (a hypothetical country that is used in most FDF's military exercises) that always attacks from East for some reason.

 

So in short I disagree that biathlon and sniper training are same even though they school lots of same basic things about shooting with rifles.

[Barothmuk]

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

Albania under the communists (it was also a majority muslim country)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well if they didn't shave they couldn't fit in the bunkers.

[BruceVC]

Forcing people to shave is EVIL. Having a beard doesn't make one a terrorist. Only psychopaths think that.

I agree with this sentiment....I'm sure this will be seen as a sign of humiliation 

 

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

Albania under the communists (it was also a majority muslim country)

 

Interesting, well played. I didn't know that 

[Elerond]

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

 

I'm missing your point? Just because the government is Muslim it doesn't mean they dont have an issue with Muslim extremism and they think this will help..and no I haven't seen this before as I mentioned

[Namutree]

 

 

Imam of Cologne blaming German girls for New Year's fikki-fikki.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/20/cologne-imam-blames-women-for-being-assaulted/#ixzz3xrpc1biO

 

 

“If they walk half-naked and use perfume, then things will happen,” Abu-Yusuf said. “A man, a woman…it’s like a splash of oil into the fire.”

Abu-Yusuf also criticized the public’s strong reaction to the assaults by saying people “need to react properly, and not add fuel to the fire.”

 

 

The proper reaction is to add him to the fire

 

Stop holding Muslims to any standard you right-wing racist.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

 

I'm missing your point? Just because the government is Muslim it doesn't mean they dont have an issue with Muslim extremism and they think this will help..and no I haven't seen this before as I mentioned

 

 

Point was that when somebody is forced to something it usually means that they didn't support idea in first place. And second point was that this has less to do with Islam and more to do with Tajikistan culture itself.

 

It is difficult to say do forcing people living by certain standards add or lessen extremism, but forcing people to look certain way or forbid certain looks isn't uncommon thing even in western countries even though forced beard saving don't necessary belong among those things, except in prisons sometimes. 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

 

I'm missing your point? Just because the government is Muslim it doesn't mean they dont have an issue with Muslim extremism and they think this will help..and no I haven't seen this before as I mentioned

 

 

Point was that when somebody is forced to something it usually means that they didn't support idea in first place. And second point was that this has less to do with Islam and more to do with Tajikistan culture itself.

 

It is difficult to say do forcing people living by certain standards add or lessen extremism, but forcing people to look certain way or forbid certain looks isn't uncommon thing even in western countries even though forced beard saving don't necessary belong among those things, except in prisons sometimes. 

 

Really? So is the mass shaving of perceived Muslim extremist beards   part of there culture?

 

I see this as a pointless decision by a dictator trying to control the spread of extremism 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

'Cos Tajikistan knows better tan 'urop

 

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2016/01/21/tajikistan-removes-headscarves-from-1700-women-and-shaves-beards-off-13000-men-to-tackle-jihadism/

What a bizarre thing to do, this is only going to increase animosity from the Muslim community in Tajikistan

 

 

Tajikistan is a muslim country you doofus

 

Yes I know but if you read the article it says the government is secular ....I suppose I meant to say " this will increase Muslim extremism " 

 

But the whole country looks very dysfunctional on various levels

 

Maybe they are trying to fix that dysfunction? Mind you shaving beards is just stupid but trying to get womens back to social life and push their husbands to disband shackles of oppression doesnt sound that bad. Still the way is wrong, nothing forced ever worked

 

Well if they really wanted to fix that dysfunction then maybe the president could resign as he has been in power since 1994....and presidents for life don't work. So I dont have much time for any country that isn't prepared to fix fundamentals

 

If anything last few years teached us its that secular 'dictator' is still better then 'democratic' fanatics in head of the religious states with very low education levels

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

 

I'm missing your point? Just because the government is Muslim it doesn't mean they dont have an issue with Muslim extremism and they think this will help..and no I haven't seen this before as I mentioned

 

 

Point was that when somebody is forced to something it usually means that they didn't support idea in first place. And second point was that this has less to do with Islam and more to do with Tajikistan culture itself.

 

It is difficult to say do forcing people living by certain standards add or lessen extremism, but forcing people to look certain way or forbid certain looks isn't uncommon thing even in western countries even though forced beard saving don't necessary belong among those things, except in prisons sometimes. 

 

Really? So is the mass shaving of perceived Muslim extremist beards   part of there culture?

 

I see this as a pointless decision by a dictator trying to control the spread of extremism 

 

 

That isn't what I said. But that not accepting certain looks and collective punishments probably come from their own culture.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/tajikistan-shaves-13000-men-beards-radicalism-160120133352747.html

"Police in Tajikistan have shaved nearly 13,000 people's beards and closed more than 160 shops selling traditional Muslim clothing last year as part of the country's fight against what it calls "foreign" influences.

 

Bahrom Sharifzoda, the head of the south-west Khathlon region's police, said at a press conference on Wednesday that the law enforcement services convinced more than 1,700 women and girls to stop wearing headscarves in the Muslim-majority Central Asian country.

 

The move is seen as part of efforts to battle what authorities deem "radicalism".

 

Tajikistan's secular leadership has long sought to prevent an overspill of what it sees as unwelcome traditions from neighbouring Afghanistan.

 

Last week, the country's parliament voted to ban Arabic-sounding "foreign" names as well as marriages between first cousins.

 

The legislation is expected to be approved by President Emomali Rahmon, who has taken steps to promote secularism and discourage beliefs and practices that he sees as foreign or a threat to the stability of Tajikistan, Radio Liberty said."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35372754

"Shaving beards is part of a government campaign targeting trends that are deemed "alien and inconsistent with Tajik culture"."

 

"Women have been told to wear traditional Tajik colours - not black"

 

"According to official data, 99% of the Tajik population are Muslim. However, atheism was officially encouraged during 70 years of Soviet rule."

 

"President Emomali Rakhmon has also warned Tajiks: "Don't worship alien values, don't follow alien culture. Wear clothes of traditional colours and cut, not black.""

 

"The campaign against Islamic practices also affects women. There is an official ban on wearing hijabs in schools and universities - but in practice it is enforced in all state institutions.

Police say that over the past year, they have closed about 160 shops where hijabs were being sold, and convinced 1,773 women to stop wearing hijabs."

 

"It is not clear whether these policies will have an impact on preventing radicalism.

Djovid Akramov says he will not forget the humiliation he felt while being forcefully shaved at the police station.

"The worst is the impunity of the policemen, who were enjoying the opportunity to bully people," he says.

It is this kind of conduct that can prompt people to become radicalised, he says."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/22/tajikistan-parliament-approves-constitutional-changes-presidential-term-emomali-rahmon

"Tajikistan’s secular government has raised alarm over hundreds of its citizens going to join Islamic State in Iraq and Syria."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/tajikistan-police-chief-defects-to-isis

Tajikistan police chief defects to Isis

 

 

I don't have any knowledge about Tajikistan to tell me if this sort actions increase or decrease extremism there, but it is clear that their leadership has real concerns about increasing extremism in their country and their reaction towards extremism is quite similar to how Soviet Union handled such cases (meaning use of extreme measures and promoting nationalism).

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Islam is a state religion in Tajikistan and they're not secular in the European sense of the word. Nothing like it. What the ruling elite doesn't want is to let fundamentalists that could be sponsored from outside and incited against the government take hold. And they want the clerics under their control as well, not preaching insubordination.

 

Forcing the women out of the hijab and shaving beards is way to enforce religious uniformity and not let the fundamentalists differentiate themselves physically and set up a "trend". Its a mild measure to preempt possible problems, rest assured they'll use much harsher methods if they have to.

 

Its not bizarre or wrong, but well thought out at this point in time. If France did the same they'd break up the fundamentalist communities to a degree and have less problems..

And have you  ever seen any Muslim EVER support the idea of his beard being forcibly shaved?

 

They will see this as  an insult and an attack on there faith...if fact I cant recall where else in the world this has happened ?

 

 

Have you ever seen anybody support the idea of their beard being forcibly shaved?

 

But 98% of people of Tajikistan are Muslims. So its secular government that have decided this thing consist probably mostly Muslims.

 

They were also part of Soviet Union, which also means they have traditions and habits, etc. from that era.

 

I'm missing your point? Just because the government is Muslim it doesn't mean they dont have an issue with Muslim extremism and they think this will help..and no I haven't seen this before as I mentioned

 

 

Point was that when somebody is forced to something it usually means that they didn't support idea in first place. And second point was that this has less to do with Islam and more to do with Tajikistan culture itself.

 

It is difficult to say do forcing people living by certain standards add or lessen extremism, but forcing people to look certain way or forbid certain looks isn't uncommon thing even in western countries even though forced beard saving don't necessary belong among those things, except in prisons sometimes. 

 

Really? So is the mass shaving of perceived Muslim extremist beards   part of there culture?

 

I see this as a pointless decision by a dictator trying to control the spread of extremism 

 

 

That isn't what I said. But that not accepting certain looks and collective punishments probably come from their own culture.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/tajikistan-shaves-13000-men-beards-radicalism-160120133352747.html

"Police in Tajikistan have shaved nearly 13,000 people's beards and closed more than 160 shops selling traditional Muslim clothing last year as part of the country's fight against what it calls "foreign" influences.

 

Bahrom Sharifzoda, the head of the south-west Khathlon region's police, said at a press conference on Wednesday that the law enforcement services convinced more than 1,700 women and girls to stop wearing headscarves in the Muslim-majority Central Asian country.

 

The move is seen as part of efforts to battle what authorities deem "radicalism".

 

Tajikistan's secular leadership has long sought to prevent an overspill of what it sees as unwelcome traditions from neighbouring Afghanistan.

 

Last week, the country's parliament voted to ban Arabic-sounding "foreign" names as well as marriages between first cousins.

 

The legislation is expected to be approved by President Emomali Rahmon, who has taken steps to promote secularism and discourage beliefs and practices that he sees as foreign or a threat to the stability of Tajikistan, Radio Liberty said."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35372754

"Shaving beards is part of a government campaign targeting trends that are deemed "alien and inconsistent with Tajik culture"."

 

"Women have been told to wear traditional Tajik colours - not black"

 

"According to official data, 99% of the Tajik population are Muslim. However, atheism was officially encouraged during 70 years of Soviet rule."

 

"President Emomali Rakhmon has also warned Tajiks: "Don't worship alien values, don't follow alien culture. Wear clothes of traditional colours and cut, not black.""

 

"The campaign against Islamic practices also affects women. There is an official ban on wearing hijabs in schools and universities - but in practice it is enforced in all state institutions.

Police say that over the past year, they have closed about 160 shops where hijabs were being sold, and convinced 1,773 women to stop wearing hijabs."

 

"It is not clear whether these policies will have an impact on preventing radicalism.

Djovid Akramov says he will not forget the humiliation he felt while being forcefully shaved at the police station.

"The worst is the impunity of the policemen, who were enjoying the opportunity to bully people," he says.

It is this kind of conduct that can prompt people to become radicalised, he says."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/22/tajikistan-parliament-approves-constitutional-changes-presidential-term-emomali-rahmon

"Tajikistan’s secular government has rais/ed alarm over hundreds of its citizens going to join Islamic State in Iraq and Syria."

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/tajikistan-police-chief-defects-to-isis

Tajikistan police chief defects to Isis

 

 

I don't have any knowledge about Tajikistan to tell me if this sort actions increase or decrease extremism there, but it is clear that their leadership has real concerns about increasing extremism in their country and their reaction towards extremism is quite similar to how Soviet Union handled such cases (meaning use of extreme measures and promoting nationalism).

 

Okay but   aren't we arguing the same point ? I am saying the Tajikistan government is trying to control extremism ....and one of the things  they did was shave the beards of perceived extremists 

[Chilloutman]

geez bruce for god sake learn how to use quote, its not effing rocket science

[BruceVC]

geez bruce for god sake learn how to use quote, its not effing rocket science

You right its not 

[Elerond]

Bruce my purpose was just to point out that their actions weren't attack against Islam or any other faith, but way try to prevent cultural elements from neighboring countries. And that extreme way to enforce it and using nationalism against extremism probably come from Soviet Union times. 

 

It is totalitarian ideology of total control and unity of citizens which is meant to keep citizens in line and learning to averse anything that don't come from government, But it is ideology that don't just come from the dictator, but it is also ideology that big part of citizens of country believe at least in some form as they at least tolerate such control heavy governance.

 

To question do it work against extremism, I don't know, but history tells us that it don't prevent all extremism, but also western culture of individual freedom don't prevent all extremism.

[licketysplit]

 

 

Are these real? The instructional pamphlets for Muslims? It's like bizarro 1984.

Edited January 23, 2016 by licketysplit

[Elerond]

The latter one at least is real and used in Munich.

http://www.mz-web.de/politik/-schwimmbad-baderegeln-muenchen-comics-sote-fluechtlinge,20642162,33513044.html

[licketysplit]

Who the hell isn't taught as a child to keep your hands to yourself. Do they need the great Allah to explain cave man logic?

[Zoraptor]

'Untertouchen' sounds like something Adolf would have as being verboten in Mein Kampf, not something as innocent as dunking.

 

Also, bright yellow splash patterns are not a good look for a swimming instruction pamphlet where the reader may not be fluent in german.

[BruceVC]

Who the hell isn't taught as a child to keep your hands to yourself. Do they need the great Allah to explain cave man logic?

Also to be honest they know that to mishandle or or try to rape women is wrong, I have travelled in many ME countries and I don't remember any significant issues with rape or ubiquitous examples of abuse of women similar to this

 

This is necessary because they just don't have much respect for Western women and have a certain level of contempt for them 

 

This needs to change very quickly 

[Meshugger]

 

Who the hell isn't taught as a child to keep your hands to yourself. Do they need the great Allah to explain cave man logic?

Also to be honest they know that to mishandle or or try to rape women is wrong, I have travelled in many ME countries and I don't remember any significant issues with rape or ubiquitous examples of abuse of women similar to this

 

This is necessary because they just don't have much respect for Western women and have a certain level of contempt for them 

 

This needs to change very quickly 

 

 

Western, non-islamic women, and to extension society at large, are considered open season. They are simply Morlocks.