I've been thinking about making a quickswitch 4 weapon slot Paladin with x2 leadsplitter + another blunderbuss and Sabre+shield in last slot. 

That's a common setup - and a powerful one. I did it with a 3 INT Paladin and it worked great (Sacred Immolation was gimped of course). You can also do this with a cipher. You will have tons of focus at the beginning of a fight (if you fire all shots after another) or when you need it (requires more micro throughout the fight). However - this is very micro heavy because the AI doesn't switch weapons (except when chars are mind controlled). So I only do this with one char maximum. Most of the time a char that needs a lot of micro anyway

Yeah I was thinking as a solo or possibly a duo run with durance. Bleakwalker with their intense flames+corrode dmg seems like a great burst and then switch to sword and board + scrolls after the shots. I'm sure ciphers soulwhip would add nice dmg to it too but I have only so few talent points. With as few talent points as possible what other class would u recommend for a double leadsplitter + sword and board build? For the leadsplitters I want some kind of ability that works with it and is per encounter rather then per rest.

 

I don't know much about rangers but from what I've read they are kind of bad, right?

rangers bad? That was when the animal companion was really ****ty - now they are really good.

Rangers aren't bad at all.  There are just some players who have the mindset that if a character isn't a spellcaster, then it's a "bad" ranged character.  In their minds, non-spellcasters belong in melee and only spellcasters should be ranged combatants.  Don't listen to them.

Thank you for the replies, and sorry for derailing this thread. So let me just leave it by saying that this cipher build is very solid and it's the best way to use a cipher in my experience with them so far.

Agreed; this is my go-to Cipher build

I guess that I'm a throwback.  I've never been overly fond of putting casters in the front row.  Oh, it's one thing if the front row comes to them, or if the caster is sort of in the role of second row off-tank, like I usually do with Durance.  My optimal situation has always been to have my tanks holding the enemies at bay and off of the casters, even if I have to use my first and second rows to do it and leave some breathing room for my offensive casters to work without being harassed by the enemy.  But tastes vary.

Hmm I wonder if the 3.02 patch that made Retaliation not an auto-hit has nerfed this build and if so, how much?

On the other hand, if retaliation is made to go through standard attack resolution, it can also crit now?

 

And btw, does it benefit from Soul/Bitting whip bonus damage coefficient?

Edited March 18, 20169 yr by MaxQuest

Good questions which I don't know the answer of. Didn't play this thing post 2.03 - so feel free to test and report.

I tested with version 3.02 with a savegame made in 3.01: 

Retaliate and Flame Shield can crit but no longer generate focus in my game. 

Shart! There goes another build.   But why? It wasn't overly powerful. Stupid nerfs all the time!

 

Now it's all Stormcaller and Quickswitcher ciphers - booooring!

Edited March 25, 20169 yr by Boeroer

You can still go to melee with a cipher, and retaliate will still do a lot of damage thanks to Soul Whip ? (Or not ?)

 

I just doubt Sura Supper plate worths it now...

As far as I can tell, Soul Whip does not affect retaliation. Also retaliation does not work with carnage.

At least not in my savegame. 

(High) Might on the other hand still seems to raise damage of retaliation. 

But I guess this is not enough to argue for retaliation in a build - no matter the class. 

 

I am wondering right now what I'll respec my retaliation cypher to. Quickswitching seems like a bad fit as he is a pale elf and not an Island Aumaua, Stormcaller is bound to Sagani. :-/

Maybe dualwield Spelltongue and Sword of Daenysis to get to 0 recovery and extend the durations of Borrowed Instinct, Body Attunement and the like at the same time with spelltongue? Time parasite might even get 0 recovery with Spelltongue and a shield. But by the time "time parasite" is accessible the game is basically over. Hmm...

Reach weapons might be an option. With Llawran's Stick and durgan refinement you can become pretty fast and do good damage with your Soul Whip. Dual Wielding with Outlander's Frenzy or Sanguine Plate might also be good if you play more like a rogue. I mean the damage is not that much lower than Sneak Attack's.

Edited March 25, 20169 yr by Boeroer

Shart! There goes another build.   But why? It wasn't overly powerful. Stupid nerfs all the time!

 

Now it's all Stormcaller and Quickswitcher ciphers - booooring!

 

In PnP, if you are creative, GM will appreciate this.

 

In video game, if you are creative, developer will punish you.

Right, Reach is something I didn't think of. Thank you for reminding me. Sanguine Plate requires receiving a critical hit. After which I can't see the exact health anymore. Not something I would like to do on a regular basis with the (relatively) squishy cipher. Outlander's Frenzy on the other hand should work fine until it's made a bit redundant by time parasite, while Sanguine Plate could just be swapped with a different armor. Oh, so many things to ponder... 

 

But I am derailing your thread, sorry.

Anyway, your build had a certain elegance most alternatives lack: It worked well without many talents, didn't require durgan to get effective, not much micro-management, could tank a bit...

It was nice while it lasted.

Melee will still generate sustained focus faster than ranged will. Ruffian focus start with a pistol or blunderbuss shot, cast psychovampiric shield for deflection, maybe a body attunement for DR and wade into battle with a sabre and a small shield (maybe the reflecting one is better now) or dual wield. Use the focus to further buff yourself and then build up to max focus and drop the hammer.

 

Losing focus from retaliate just means you need a few more melee attacks that benefit from your +40% damage soul whips.

 

You won't have Backlash but you can still have Bedlam, maybe even Mayhem.

Don't know what was like in 2.03 and before, but in 3.0 and up talents  modifier attack,such as Savage/sneak attack dmg NOT work with retaliation.

 

But still talents modified attack, such as vulnerable attack still WORK ON.

It definitely does work with sneak attack, see my thread here. This is for 3.02, where they made Retaliate roll to hit - which so far seems beneficial more than anything.

Doesn't help for this build, because it doesn't generate focus anymore. Let's hope they revert this.

It works. Every tick of the triggers CW. Also works with wounding weapons like Tidefall, Drawn in Spring and so on. Same with chanter's lvl1 and lvl3 dot phrases. Barb with Tidefall and a Ring of Searing Flames is a nice Combo.

 

Well, it used to work. Maybe the dot thing got nerfed.

 

However, it's difficult to add up as many hits per second on a group of enemies like the Backlash Beldam does.

DoT effects  now (3.02) don't work with CW anymore.

 

I mean they don't proc CW dmg effect.

 

I notice that it works with retaliation effect only, besides normal attacks of course.

 

However, ranger's  skill like  Binding Roots, which only have debuff effect, still proc CW. These rules sometimes are really weird. To remember everything it needs to make notes ;p.

Edited April 15, 20169 yr by Gs11

What does CW mean?

Combusting Wounds

 

It works. Every tick of the triggers CW. Also works with wounding weapons like Tidefall, Drawn in Spring and so on. Same with chanter's lvl1 and lvl3 dot phrases. Barb with Tidefall and a Ring of Searing Flames is a nice Combo.

 

Well, it used to work. Maybe the dot thing got nerfed.

 

However, it's difficult to add up as many hits per second on a group of enemies like the Backlash Beldam does.

DoT effects  now (3.02) don't work with CW anymore.

 

I mean they don't proc CW dmg effect.

 

I notice that it works with retaliation effect only, besides normal attacks of course.

 

However, ranger's  skill like  Binding Roots, which only have debuff effect, still proc CW. These rules sometimes are really weird. To remember everything it needs to make notes ;p.

 

That's really sad. Now CW is a bit underwhelming. Still works with Wall of Flames and Chill Fog, Malignant Cloud and all those other "pulsing" things.

By " pulsing things"  You mean  periodical damage, when DR is calculated with every ticks and ticks interval are specified, not by default 3 sec, like Ectopsychic Echo?