Attacks in Paris

[Qistina]

 

Malaysian people is diplomatic people, Malays are Muslims of course, but if you think we are barbarians you guys wrong, only the western invaders call us barbarians, the Japanese invaders are brutal but they still respect us, the west however are the most evil, up to today the west still playing with sentiments calling us barbarians "Muslim Terrorist" bullcrap. The Japanese left us and WW2 is over, but the west left us but still playing the same stupid propagandas about all races...that's the differenc/e...up to today the west think we are backward people and barbarians...not only that, the west also playing with religion issues like in medieval time/

I have never ever heard of Malaysians being called Barbarians ?

 

We refer to murderous groups like ISIS or Boko Haram as savages but not Malaysians as we do business there  

 

 

Because my country is just recently become popular in USA, but back in 70s and 80s western people call us barbarians who live on trees...

 

Today because of War on Terror, we get it too...we are labelled as terrorists because we are Muslims...

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[Leferd]

Can't speak for the Malaysian language but Allah and Tuhan are used interchangeably in Indonesian. In fact there is absolutely no confusion about their respective usage.

[Elerond]

 

 

Malaysian people is diplomatic people, Malays are Muslims of course, but if you think we are barbarians you guys wrong, only the western invaders call us barbarians, the Japanese invaders are brutal but they still respect us, the west however are the most evil, up to today the west still playing with sentiments calling us barbarians "Muslim Terrorist" bullcrap. The Japanese left us and WW2 is over, but the west left us but still playing the same stupid propagandas about all races...that's the differenc/e...up to today the west think we are backward people and barbarians...not only that, the west also playing with religion issues like in medieval time/

I have never ever heard of Malaysians being called Barbarians ?

 

We refer to murderous groups like ISIS or Boko Haram as savages but not Malaysians as we do business there  

 

 

Because my country is just recently become popular in USA, but back in 70s and 80s western people call us barbarians who live on trees...

 

 

Hundred they called us (Finns) subhumans that are closer to monkeys than humans that should not be allowed to get citizenship in USA if that gives you any consolation.

[ManifestedISO]

I like warm bread.

 

 

From NY Times, but I can't confirm.

 

* the typo might be telling

Edited November 16, 2015 by ManifestedISO

[Darkpriest]

It seems it's decided. Bernard Cazeneuve, French minister of internal affairs and security publicly confirmed that they will start removing mosques, in which hate speech is openly cultivated and which encourage aggression.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-french-interior-minister-bernard-cazeneuve-calls-for-dissolution-of-mosques-where-hate-a6736591.html

Edited November 16, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Leferd]

I like warm bread.

 

 

From NY Times, but I can't confirm.

 

* the typo might be telling

Hedonists.

[Qistina]

Can't speak for the Malaysian language but Allah and Tuhan are used interchangeably in Indonesian. In fact there is absolutely no confusion about their respective usage.

 

Malaysian and Indonesian language differ, it is not fair to compare Malaysian and Indonesian...as you might know some bad words in Malaysia is not  bad words in Indonesia, the other way is also true...just leave it and don't make it an issue. We have different law, different government and different country, different culture, different politic and different everything.

 

Malaysian and Indonesian language is like British and American, if Indonesia want to translate God into Allah it's their problem.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Malaysian people is diplomatic people, Malays are Muslims of course, but if you think we are barbarians you guys wrong, only the western invaders call us barbarians, the Japanese invaders are brutal but they still respect us, the west however are the most evil, up to today the west still playing with sentiments calling us barbarians "Muslim Terrorist" bullcrap. The Japanese left us and WW2 is over, but the west left us but still playing the same stupid propagandas about all races...that's the differenc/e...up to today the west think we are backward people and barbarians...not only that, the west also playing with religion issues like in medieval time/

I have never ever heard of Malaysians being called Barbarians ?

 

We refer to murderous groups like ISIS or Boko Haram as savages but not Malaysians as we do business there  

 

 

Because my country is just recently become popular in USA, but back in 70s and 80s western people call us barbarians who live on trees...

 

 

Hundred they called us (Finns) subhumans that are closer to monkeys than humans that should not be allowed to get citizenship in USA if that gives you any consolation.

 

Oh....so you Finns don't like being called monkeys....why do you hate monkeys? They are cute and intelligent 

[Darkpriest]

This sentence is quite dangerous, when spoken by the head of internal affairs...

 

'The state of emergency should allow us to act more rapidly'

 

I think it's just a prelude to some ugly pictures in the coming months.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Elerond]

the God of Bible named YHWH. 

 

 

That is name that Jewry use of their god/the God (if we take idea that all Abrahamic religions worship same god). Bible if it is Christian bible should not have any specific name for the God as naming him is one of the worst sins that a Christian can do. Although I know that there are some religions that use Bible and they give name for the God, but they aren't considered to be Christians by main Christian religions.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It seems it's decided. Bernard Cazeneuve, French minister of internal affairs and security publicly confirmed that they will start removing mosques, in which hate speech is openly cultivated and which encourage aggression.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-french-interior-minister-bernard-cazeneuve-calls-for-dissolution-of-mosques-where-hate-a6736591.html

That's quite the slippery slope if "hate speech" is loosely defined.

[Leferd]

 

 

Can't speak for the Malaysian language but Allah and Tuhan are used interchangeably in Indonesian. In fact there is absolutely no confusion about their respective usage.

Malaysian and Indonesian language differ, it is not fair to compare Malaysian and Indonesian...as you might know some bad words in Malaysia is not bad words in Indonesia, the other way is also true...just leave it and don't make it an issue. We have different law, different government and different country, different culture, different politic and different everything.

Different everything? Ok, if you say so.

 

I'll say this: Anyone speaking Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia will be mutually intelligible to each other with no problems. In Indonesian, Tuhan literally translates to Lord in English. Allah is God. In the grand scope of entities divine, there is quite a divinity gap between the two words.

 

In the Christian bible, God is often addressed as Lord, but is otherwise called God --and the two words are used interchangeably as a matter of style, but the context matters.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

As an American I find the combination of the words "Illegal" and "books" to be altogether alien concept. But hey, that's just how we are.

 

 

Now as far as what Darkpriest pointed out that France was considering closing Mosques. Bad idea. I'm all fine and good with arresting the Imams and religious leaders who violate French law by promoting sedition (this is illegal in France) but closing the Mosque becomes an attack on the institution itself. Do not become the monsters ISIS propaganda already say's you are. They want to refight the crusades with themselves cast in the role of the "morally superior aggrieved party" and the west as the "evil crusaders". The titles are meaningless in a practical sense but as others have pointed out it becomes an automatic and effective recruiting tool.

 

I'm not sure about this, we are talking about closing down Mosques who practice hate speech....this would be made official and clearly seen as a punishment. You do realize that of course other extremists or just other Sunni Muslims who share ideological empathy with ISIS would have prayed and been aware of this attack so they are probably celebrating now at the success of the attack ...why shoulld Mosques like this be allowed to stay open?

 

Qistina what do you think? An eye for a eye, ISIS understands this type of dialogue

 

This needs to be about punishing people not philosophy no matter how evil it is. You can't get into philosophical arguments with fanatics, you will lose every time. Better to just get rid of the fanatics.

[Qistina]

 

 

Can't speak for the Malaysian language but Allah and Tuhan are used interchangeably in Indonesian. In fact there is absolutely no confusion about their respective usage.

Malaysian and Indonesian language differ, it is not fair to compare Malaysian and Indonesian...as you might know some bad words in Malaysia is not bad words in Indonesia, the other way is also true...just leave it and don't make it an issue. We have different law, different government and different country, different culture, different politic and different everything.

Different everything? Ok, if you say so.

 

I'll say this: Anyone speaking Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia will be mutually intelligible to each other with no problems. In Indonesian, Tuhan literally translates to Lord in English. Allah is God. In the grand scope of entities divine, there is quite a divinity gap between the two words.

 

In the Christian bible, God is often addressed as Lord, but is otherwise called God --and the two words are used interchangeably as a matter of style, but the context matters.

 

 

Like i said, if Indonesian want to translate God or Lord into Allah in Indonesian language is not Malaysian problem

 

Are you are Indonesian? What you call your language? Malaysian or Indonesian language?

 

It is like British want to busy body with what Americans want to translate in their books.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[Amentep]

 

Book Challenges are usually in the form of books offered through public resources through a public, high school or elementary library, and not a "ban" in the sense that the book is unavailable to a private citizen through a private purchase with a private seller.

 

That said, I thought the Malaysia thing had to do with use of the word Allah by Christians to refer to God which caused some bible translations - but not all - to be seizable when the courts declared that Allah was a term specific to Islam and couldn't be used by other religions to refer to God (and which of course doesn't effect the Buddhist and Hindus).  Or is something different going on that I missed news of?

 

I already explain in other post, but i summarieze here

 

There is a movement of some group of Christians and some liberal NGO, they want to combine religions, pluralism they call it. So this wrong translation of Bible is used for their propaganda. They want to translate the word "God" in Bible into "Allah" in Malay translation in which wrong. "God" in Malay is "Tuhan", "Allah" is a name of a God, a Muslim God, the God of Bible named YHWH. They publish this Bible translation. So it create confusion and making people uneasy. But they keep playing sentiments and it become uncontrolled, desperately they play Islamophobia and try to take international attention. When CNN got it, they just twist everything.

 

The translation is WRONG in many ways. We did debate about it, we say the word God in Malay is Tuhan, if they want to translate it then translate it to Tuhan, but they insist want to translate it to Allah, it's a bullcrap.

 

International people don't understand language, of course everyone can argue "Allah" means "The God", but in context, in Malay language, it is not correct to translate God into Allah.

 

 

 

Thanks, that's what I thought was being discussed but couldn't find the starting reference in the thread for whatever reason.  Honestly - as an outsider with only the context of reading about the situation as an outsider - when I read of it, it seemed a bit disingenuous to translate God as Allah for the Christian bible

[Qistina]

 

Thanks, that's what I thought was being discussed but couldn't find the starting reference in the thread for whatever reason.  Honestly - as an outsider with only the context of reading about the situation as an outsider - when I read of it, it seemed a bit disingenuous to translate God as Allah for the Christian bible

 

 

Malaysia actually don't have official Malaysian Translation Bible, Christians here being using either English version, Chinese traslation version or Indonesian translation version, it is not a problem because Christian here are mostly Chinese, Indians and Portuguese. Malays who convert to Christian are VERY few you can count with your fingers. So this issue is more political than religious actually...

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[Meshugger]

 

 

By that reasoning we should expel all muslims from EU, because they create disharmony with the cultural background of the EU continent... I mean, how can you even compare Hate Speech leading to violence and mass murders vs. publishing a book? What is in it that creates disharmony? I mean I'd like to try to understand it... I just can't see it being anywhere on the same level of threat to civil population (knowing the christian rhetoric and how their leaders present themselves).

 

I was going to respond about the number of ISIS fighters from the west and how a huuuge majority of them are second or third generation arabs living in self-segregated ghettos (http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html) but then you posted a jem like that. Don't ever leave, you're the gift that keeps on giving.

 

Yes it may seem we are being critical of only Muslims who spread hate speech but I agree if the law in Malaysia says the Malaysian Bible needs to be banned then yes a raid would be justified

 

Malaysia is a Muslim country and like the Middle East if the government thinks a bible is creating disharmony then ban it

 

I'm not religious so I would leave this decision up to the actual governments. Guys we should understand this because if France does decide to close down certain Mosques there will be major resistance from certain Muslims in France and we should be consistent in our view that governments have a right to close down religious buildings but we cant complain if Malaysia decided to ban a bible as they should also have this right 

 

 

 

Malaysian police consist of all races and all religion, there are many Christian police officers, as well Hindus and Buddhists, i don't see why you guys don't understand that it is not religious matter, not about Muslim vs Christian. The Church is against the law, then they against the law. We have Constitution, we follow the law. It is not religious issue unless someone make it so.

 

Those Christians in that church not only against the law, but also playing sentiments, take advantage of Islamophobia, draging international attention making my country look bad, they know the world sentiment toward Islam, they use it. But they forgot that the law eforcement is not only Muslims. And not all Christians agree with their action either.

 

Just because they are Christians in Muslim country they can do whatever they want, disobey the law and make everything a religious issue?

 

 

You're completely fascinating. I wasn't highlighting some petty judicial process, i was emphasizing something fundamentally wrong: a book being illegal. How that flew over your head makes it both sad and funny at the same time. If this is the most civilized islamic society found on earth then why should Europe, or any non-islamic country for that matter, bother integrating those from areas of the world being less civilized than that? Can you guys even form a line without people cutting through? That's another good indicator of a modern society actually: Have you mastered the art of being in a queue?

 

It seems it's decided. Bernard Cazeneuve, French minister of internal affairs and security publicly confirmed that they will start removing mosques, in which hate speech is openly cultivated and which encourage aggression.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-french-interior-minister-bernard-cazeneuve-calls-for-dissolution-of-mosques-where-hate-a6736591.html

 

Goddammit

 

[Qistina]

 

 

Malaysian police consist of all races and all religion, there are many Christian police officers, as well Hindus and Buddhists, i don't see why you guys don't understand that it is not religious matter, not about Muslim vs Christian. The Church is against the law, then they against the law. We have Constitution, we follow the law. It is not religious issue unless someone make it so.

 

Those Christians in that church not only against the law, but also playing sentiments, take advantage of Islamophobia, draging international attention making my country look bad, they know the world sentiment toward Islam, they use it. But they forgot that the law eforcement is not only Muslims. And not all Christians agree with their action either.

 

Just because they are Christians in Muslim country they can do whatever they want, disobey the law and make everything a religious issue?

 

 

You're completely fascinating. I wasn't highlighting some petty judicial process, i was emphasizing something fundamentally wrong: a book being illegal. How that flew over your head makes it both sad and funny at the same time. If this is the most civilized islamic society found on earth then why should Europe, or any non-islamic country for that matter, bother integrating those from areas of the world being less civilized than that? Can you guys even form a line without people cutting through? That's another good indicator of a modern society actually: Have you mastered the art of being in a queue?

 

 

There are many illegal books in Malaysia, Communists and Nazis books are among them. Any subversive books are also banned. Any books that could incite riots, propagating racism, propagating religious extremism, are all banned...there are too many books banned. (porn books are also banned)

 

Malaysian don't like to read books anyway...it is not our culture to sit by and read books...we love books with pictures on it, even so buying books is not a priority for Malaysians...giving Education Ministry a headache..

 

Since there is internet...no one read books...we google and it is more interesting because there are many pictures and videos on internet

 

Alright, i use to sell books and it makes me cry....

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Malaysian police consist of all races and all religion, there are many Christian police officers, as well Hindus and Buddhists, i don't see why you guys don't understand that it is not religious matter, not about Muslim vs Christian. The Church is against the law, then they against the law. We have Constitution, we follow the law. It is not religious issue unless someone make it so.

 

Those Christians in that church not only against the law, but also playing sentiments, take advantage of Islamophobia, draging international attention making my country look bad, they know the world sentiment toward Islam, they use it. But they forgot that the law eforcement is not only Muslims. And not all Christians agree with their action either.

 

Just because they are Christians in Muslim country they can do whatever they want, disobey the law and make everything a religious issue?

 

 

You're completely fascinating. I wasn't highlighting some petty judicial process, i was emphasizing something fundamentally wrong: a book being illegal. How that flew over your head makes it both sad and funny at the same time. If this is the most civilized islamic society found on earth then why should Europe, or any non-islamic country for that matter, bother integrating those from areas of the world being less civilized than that? Can you guys even form a line without people cutting through? That's another good indicator of a modern society actually: Have you mastered the art of being in a queue?

 

 

There are many illegal books in Malaysia, Communists and Nazis books are among them. Any subversive books are also banned. Any books that could incite riots, propagating racism, propagating religious extremism, are all banned...there are too many books banned.

 

Malaysian don't like to read books anyway...it is not our culture to sit by and read books...we love books with pictures on it, even so buying books is not a priority for Malaysians...giving Education Ministry a headache..

 

Since there is internet...no one read books...we google and it is more interesting because there are many pictures and videos on internet

 

Alright, i use to sell books and it makes me cry....

 

 

Jesus Christ!....I pity you.

[Qistina]

 

 

 

There are many illegal books in Malaysia, Communists and Nazis books are among them. Any subversive books are also banned. Any books that could incite riots, propagating racism, propagating religious extremism, are all banned...there are too many books banned.

 

Malaysian don't like to read books anyway...it is not our culture to sit by and read books...we love books with pictures on it, even so buying books is not a priority for Malaysians...giving Education Ministry a headache..

 

Since there is internet...no one read books...we google and it is more interesting because there are many pictures and videos on internet

 

Alright, i use to sell books and it makes me cry....

 

 

Jesus Christ!....I pity you.

 

 

You know, i cry the first day i sell books...because NO ONE buying them...the next day only 3 people buy, they bought discount books anyway...the third day i am begging a gentlemen to buy my book, "please, there are pictures on it...", out of pity that getlemen buy it...4th day i quit

[Gfted1]

No porn! Oh the humanity!

 

Im curious, is Malaysian internet heavily censored too?

[Leferd]

 

 

 

 

Can't speak for the Malaysian language but Allah and Tuhan are used interchangeably in Indonesian. In fact there is absolutely no confusion about their respective usage.

Malaysian and Indonesian language differ, it is not fair to compare Malaysian and Indonesian...as you might know some bad words in Malaysia is not bad words in Indonesia, the other way is also true...just leave it and don't make it an issue. We have different law, different government and different country, different culture, different politic and different everything.

Different everything? Ok, if you say so.

 

I'll say this: Anyone speaking Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia will be mutually intelligible to each other with no problems. In Indonesian, Tuhan literally translates to Lord in English. Allah is God. In the grand scope of entities divine, there is quite a divinity gap between the two words.

 

In the Christian bible, God is often addressed as Lord, but is otherwise called God --and the two words are used interchangeably as a matter of style, but the context matters.

Like i said, if Indonesian want to translate God or Lord into Allah in Indonesian language is not Malaysian problem

 

Are you are Indonesian? What you call your language? Malaysian or Indonesian language?

 

It is like British want to busy body with what Americans want to translate in their books.

OK. Fair enough. To be honest, I'm just a little grieved at the trend of how nominally secular governments have been shifting more and more religious culturally and politically.

[Qistina]

No porn! Oh the humanity!

 

Im curious, is Malaysian internet heavily censored too?

 

No, although they do attempt to censor, but there is no ground since internet law in Malaysia is still new and we are all moving to "the world without boundaries" bullcrap...what would make they censor internet is if internet being used by opposition parties to make government look bad...but the government also don't want to look like "tyrant" isn't it and want to look like modern and open minded and democratic...so up to today there is no cencorship, and this is the main way opposition parties use for their campaigns... (all other medias are owned by governments or by someone who related with the government...yes there is no media freedom in Malaysia)

 

heck, even internet providers are mostly having government contracts...

 

There is a term in Malaysia we called it "alternative media" (media alternatif) which means "not from the government"

Edited November 16, 2015 by Qistina

[Rostere]

 

People are forgetting that censorship was commonplace in Western countries 60-80 years ago. How long has it been since "insulting the king" and "insulting god" were removed as crimes in European countries? Carl Laemmle's filmatisation of "All Quiet on the Western Front" is one shocking example of 20th century censorship in Europe. It's absurd that we claim that the same things our grandfathers did is suddenly "absolute evil" - we should strive to understand what is the logical next step for the less developed countries, like an older sibling guiding a younger sibling through their life choices. Let's just acknowledge that some countries are not as advanced as others. We should aim to help these societies progress along the same lines as we did, one step at a time. Everything cannot be achieved at once, and quick and forceful "solutions" are often foolish. We can't expect all countries to suddenly adapt 21st century free speech, when many are effectively living in the 20th or 19th century as far as social politics go.

 

Things that currently are counted as most evil, vicious, horrible, etc. in world history are things that our grandfathers did. Which is why such concepts as fundamental human rights, current refugee treaties etc. were created in first place. 

 

Yes, but we progressed from that stage of development. It makes no sense to argue that current societies who do certain things we don't agree with are irredeemable, when we did the same things. Clearly, it is possible to go from Nazi Germany in 1944 to today's Germany, which selflessly spends a lot of resources to give people from countries broken by war a new future. Same with British and French colonialism. Yet those are the same countries, with the same people (roughly speaking, we also have migration, but I do not believe that can account for these changes).

[Drowsy Emperor]

I like warm bread.

 

 

From NY Times, but I can't confirm.

 

* the typo might be telling

 

France also embodies one of the worst colonial powers, a legacy they carry on to this day - if you don't believe me look at the smoking hole where Lybia used to be.

 

I'm outspoken against muslim immigration and multiculturalism on this forum, but turning a blind eye to the reality of one of the root causes for what happened in Paris serves no one.

 

I presume the people of France are against these wars but until they realize their politicians are painting a target on them with their actions, there is no way this is going to be set straight.