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Priest - Acolyte's Radiance (1 per rest)

AOE: friendly target + 5 m (base) radius from caster

Effects: friendly AOE + 10 endurance (base)

foe AOE + 20 burn damage (base, vessels only)

foe AOE frightened for 10 s (base, vessels only)

 

Rogue - Apprentice's Sneak Attack (passive)

Effects: +15% damage against blinded, flanked, hobbled,

paralyzed, petrified, prone, stuck, stunned, weakened

or distracted enemies and in the first 2 s of combat

 

Druid - Aspirant's mark (2 per Rest)

Speed: fast

Range: 10 m

AOE: 2,5 m radius (base)

Effects: foe AOE - 8 deflection and - 8 reflex vs. will (+ 10 accuracy)

 

Cipher - Enigma's Charm (1 per encounter)

requires at least 5 s of combat

Speed: slow

Range: 7 m

Interrupt: 0,5 s (average)

Effects: foe target charmed for 8 s (base) vs. will (+ 10 accuracy)

 

Paladin - Gallant's Focus (modal)

Speed: instant

Aura Range: 2,5 m

Effects: friendly aura + 4 accuracy

 

Monk - Novice's Suffering (passive)

Effects: + 5 unarmed damage (base)

+ ... unarmed accuracy (0?)

 

Barbarian - Outlander's Frenzy (1 per rest)

Speed: average

Effects: user + 3 might, + 3 constitution, + 25% attack speed,

and - 10 deflection plus health and endurance concealed for 12 s (base)

 

Chanter - Rhymer's Summon (1 per encounter)

requires at least 15 s of combat

Speed: average

Range: 10 m

Effects: summon 2 human skeleton

 

Ranger - Runner's Wounding Shot (1 per encounter)

Speed: average

Range: 6 m

Interrupt: 0,5 s (average)

Effects: target hobbled for 10 s (base) vs. fortitude

user 80% damage inflicted over time (6 s)

 

Fighter - Veteran's Recovery (passive)

Effects: self + 1,5 endurance (base) per 3 s

 

Wizard - ...

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Priest : sounds really bad.

 

Druid : sounds really bad.

 

Wizard : we'll see.

 

Cipher : hard CC, 1 per encounter. Not bad for class without too much CC. Also bonus to accuracy is nice, and synergize well with classes with already high accuracy like fighter, rogue, and ranger.

 

Chanter : sounds lame at high level.

 

Fighter : constant recovery was a bit meh IMHO. This does not sound too appealing but why not.

 

Monk : useless except for spiritshift druid.

 

Rogue : the powergamer's favorite. All martial damage dealer (well, except rogue) will take it.

 

Barbarian : 1 per rest is annoying but not bad potential on casters with no alacrity (druid and priest). Here comes the raging buffer ! (Yes attack speed buff casting). Martial characters have better choices.

 

Paladin : awesome for parties without priest (party paladin can take another aura in this case). Useless for parties with priest.

 

Ranger : not too exciting but sounds like a great choice for rogues. +80% lash damage DoT is great, considering the huge damage per shot of the rogue (far higher than ranger's), and hobbled is good for sneak attacks. Good that rogue gets something to compensate that everyone gets sneak attack ^^

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Wow, these are all terrible

Why would you sat that? (T_T) They're not meant to be ultimate moves, they're more for adding variety to builds.
They suck compared to any multiclassing I have seen in any rpg system ever. Edited by Shevek
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Does anyone know if Apprentice Sneak Attack applies to spell damage? It just says damage rather than melee/ranged weapon damage.

By the wording, it should apply to all kinds of damage.

 

Sadly it doesn't seem to or at the very least the combat log doesn't indicate it working in any way on spell damage.

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These are cross-class talents not new multi-classing. They just add more to the current build selections.

They are the answer to folks who might have been upset that they backed off their original intent (in the early part of the KS) of having some form of m/c. It is a weak answer.

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Priest - Acolyte's Radiance (1 per rest)

AOE: friendly target + 5 m (base) radius from caster

Effects: friendly AOE + 10 endurance (base)

foe AOE + 20 burn damage (base, vessels only)

foe AOE frightened for 10 s (base, vessels only)

 

Rogue - Apprentice's Sneak Attack (passive)

Effects: +15% damage against blinded, flanked, hobbled,

paralyzed, petrified, prone, stuck, stunned, weakened

or distracted enemies and in the first 2 s of combat

 

Druid - Aspirant's mark (2 per Rest)

Speed: fast

Range: 10 m

AOE: 2,5 m radius (base)

Effects: foe AOE - 8 deflection and - 8 reflex vs. will (+ 10 accuracy)

 

Cipher - Enigma's Charm (1 per encounter)

requires at least 5 s of combat

Speed: slow

Range: 7 m

Interrupt: 0,5 s (average)

Effects: foe target charmed for 8 s (base) vs. will (+ 10 accuracy)

 

Paladin - Gallant's Focus (modal)

Speed: instant

Aura Range: 2,5 m

Effects: friendly aura + 4 accuracy

 

Monk - Novice's Suffering (passive)

Effects: + 5 unarmed damage (base)

+ ... unarmed accuracy (0?)

 

Barbarian - Outlander's Frenzy (1 per rest)

Speed: average

Effects: user + 3 might, + 3 constitution, + 25% attack speed,

and - 10 deflection plus health and endurance concealed for 12 s (base)

 

Chanter - Rhymer's Summon (1 per encounter)

requires at least 15 s of combat

Speed: average

Range: 10 m

Effects: summon 2 human skeleton

 

Ranger - Runner's Wounding Shot (1 per encounter)

Speed: average

Range: 6 m

Interrupt: 0,5 s (average)

Effects: target hobbled for 10 s (base) vs. fortitude

user 80% damage inflicted over time (6 s)

 

Fighter - Veteran's Recovery (passive)

Effects: self + 1,5 endurance (base) per 3 s

 

Wizard - ...

 

Here is my take on the new talents:

 

 F  The priest one seems really weak and is limited to only vessels. Better to just take the increased damage vs vessel talent, that at least would work with every attack rather than once per rest.

 

C- The rogue +15% for sneak attack pales in comparison to the +50% that rogues get. You'd want to take any of the other damage enhancing talents first like Savage Attack or two handed/dual wield as they all add at least as much damage and are not limited in their application. Even then something like interrupting blows or just a useful utility talent would probably be more useful.

 

F The Druid AoE minor debuff limited to two per rest. Weak and limited in its uses.

 

C+ The cipher charm talent at least is per encounter. The five second delay cuts out use as an alpha strike and the slow speed further gimps the talent, but it is a hard CC that has +10 accuracy so it should  hit most times and crit occasionally.

 

B- The paladin aura would be useful in a party where you did not have a priest. It would be useful on a tanky chanter type as they'd have high intellect to give it a good area and don't have much general talents that are necessary. A tanky chanter's job is to not die quickly so that he can sing and summon, this aura would help him buff the party even more. Maybe a caster might have a free general talent to drop on this as well. Melee is usually pretty tight on general talents and/or short on intellect.

 

D The monk ability would only be useful for a spirit shift druid. Maybe on low levels you could make fist fighter or barbarian but they'd be gimped compared to a normal build.

 

D The barbarian frenzy would rate higher but it is once per rest. If you rest after every fight then maybe this is useful.

 

D- The chanter skeleton summon at least is per encounter, but it does need 15 seconds to use and only gets you worthless skeletons who will get one shotted at higher levels. Better to just use a figurine and get something powerful when you need it.

 

B The Ranger wounding shot is once per encounter, hobbles the target and applies an 80% DoT. Use on an opening alpha strike with an arquebus and you can put a hurt on something to start.

 

F The fighter passive regen is way too low. Even the full version that the fighter gets is pretty lackluster.

 

All in all they are pretty poor. Not sure why they have to make them so weak and limited. Even if they were the full blown version of the ability it would not be too much. If you could have the full +6 accuracy aura the Paladin's version would still be better since it can take the hit to crit augmenter.

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I have given the charm talent to several characters in my party, and consider it borderline OP.

It's amazing if enemies overflow past your first-line tanks (which is often the first step towards game over).

It also helps a lot if you tanks can bind the enemy numbers, but can't survive the heavy hits long enough.

The talent also scales well with level and difficulty.

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Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed by some of these. They seem to fall into 3 categories: terrible scaling, weak effect, and occasionally useful.

 

Terrible scaling:

Chanter (skeletons are not useful at high levels)

Fighter (I think both Constant Recovery and this multiclass talent should have some form of scaling)

Priest (10 base endurance? That's like 3% of my Eder's endurance right now)

Wizard (just low damage. I think it's per rest, too)

 

Weak Effect

Barbarian (per rest is bad)

Monk (there's just no reason to use fists as weapons, even with this upgrade)

Druid (the effect isn't terrible, but per rest makes it mediocre at best)

 

Occasionally Useful

Paladin (4 accuracy is 4 accuracy. A few effects that conflict with this, but it's nice to have as a backup)

Rogue (decent for frontliners to take. Other talents are better, but it's a nice pick for when you're low on options)

Ranger (not half bad for gun users, or characters with sneak attack)

Chanter Cipher (really good on high accuracy characters)

Edited by Mechalibur
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OK, I've just finished giving the last multiclass talent a shot and here are my thoughts:

 

Acolyte's Radiance - Similar to holy radiance except it can only be used 1/rest.  The endurance provided by this talent is not large and the fact that it can only be used once per rest makes it a poor choice except for players who rest exceptionally often.

 

Apprentice's Sneak Attack - 70% less damage than the rogue ability but does apply in every situation where a rogue would be able to sneak attack.  A reasonable though not stellar choice, especially for off-tanks who would typically be flanking their target anyway. 

 

Aspirant's Mark - 20% weaker than the druid spell and usable only 2/rest.  Somewhat useful as an opening strike, especially for players who tend to rest fairly often.

 

Enigma's Charm -  20% less duration than the cipher power but usable once per encounter.  Not especially useful for casters once their spell slots become per-encounter instead of per-rest, but a solid choice for melee characters who want to broaden their combat options.

 

Gallant's Focus - 33% weaker than the paladin aura (and does not stack with similar accuracy boosters).  If no one else in your group is providing a party-wide accuracy boost, a permanent +4 ends up boosting party damage by a reasonable though not stellar amount. 

 

Novice's suffering - Boosts unarmed damage to the point where unarmed attacks become competitive with lower-end weapons.  A solid choice for niche builds that make frequent unarmed attacks, like druids who focus on animal-form melee, but too weak to justify otherwise.    

 

Outlander's Frenzy - 25% weaker than the barbarian power and with a drastically reduced frequency of use (once per rest).  The bonus to attack speed is decent for characters with on-hit weapons/abilities, but the inability to use this more than 1/rest makes it a luxury that most melee builds (the apparently natural choice for this kind of talent) won't be able to afford. 

 

Prestidigitator's Missiles - 33% fewer missiles than the wizard spell and can be used 2/rest.  This isn't a bad choice for low-level characters, and the corrode damage type makes it occasionally useful later on, but the amount of damage it inflicts just isn't high enough to justify most characters taking it. 

 

Rhymer's Summon - 33% fewer skeletons than the chanter invocation.  The skeletons are too weak to dish out meaningful damage and die too quickly to block choke points, but can at least briefly flank enemies if you have character(s) capable of sneak attacking.     

 

Runner's wounding shot - 20% weaker than the ranger talent and can be used half as often (1/encounter instead of 2/encounter).  Movement-impeding conditions like hobble have become somewhat more useful in 2.0 and the 1/encounter duration makes this a competitive though not stellar choice for most non-caster builds, especially low-level rogues. 

 

Veteran's Recovery - 50% less endurance regeneration than the fighter ability.  The very slow rate of endurance regeneration makes this talent barely noticeable except on ultra-low-constitution characters, who likely don't have a spare slot to take this feat anyway. 

 

On the whole, I found Enigma's Charm to be the most worthwhile multiclass feat as it opened up some interesting strategic options (especially for disengagement) and could be used reasonably often (albeit not at the start of combat).  Runner's Wounding Shot was also somewhat better than expected in a post-patch environment where foes race past tanks more frequently to reach the backline.  Most of the other multiclass talents would be at least situationally useful with the exception of Acolyte's Radiance and Veteran's Recovery, which are in my judgment too weak for just about any build at the moment.   

Edited by jsaving
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I agree with most analysis in this thread.

 

Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed by some of these. They seem to fall into 3 categories: terrible scaling, weak effect, and occasionally useful.

 

Terrible scaling:

Chanter (skeletons are not useful at high levels)

Fighter (I think both Constant Recovery and this multiclass talent should have some form of scaling)

Priest (10 base endurance? That's like 3% of my Eder's endurance right now)

Wizard (just low damage. I think it's per rest, too)

 

Weak Effect

Barbarian (per rest is bad)

Monk (there's just no reason to use fists as weapons, even with this upgrade)

Druid (the effect isn't terrible, but per rest makes it mediocre at best)

 

Occasionally Useful

Paladin (4 accuracy is 4 accuracy. A few effects that conflict with this, but it's nice to have as a backup)

Rogue (decent for frontliners to take. Other talents are better, but it's a nice pick for when you're low on options)

Ranger (not half bad for gun users, or characters with sneak attack)

Chanter (really good on high accuracy characters)

 

Two things:

1) Josh claimed they made constant recovery of fighters scale with level in another thread about fighters, although it's noted nowhere in the game. Either it's not implemented or only shows in the combat log and the same might be true for the cross class talent.

2) You accidently wrote chanter twice, where you actually meant the cipher in Occassionally Useful.

 

 

Personally, I think they should just make everything active per encounter and have it scale properly. I guess the magic missile is per rest because otherwise it would be stronger than the wizard at low levels. But in the end the wizard can spam his low level spells anyway, so it just should be per encounter from the beginning and scale with strength. The relative balance of the cross class skills is just way off now, but josh said he might take a look at them in the second patch after the expansion, e.g. the one after the beta now.

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Hmm, I'll test out if the recovery scales, then. It's too bad it doesn't show how much in the description.

 

Maybe a solution to the wizard talent could be that the spell it grants becomes increasingly powerful as you level? Since it's per rest, I don't think that would be excessively overpowered.

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Maybe a solution to the wizard talent could be that the spell it grants becomes increasingly powerful as you level? Since it's per rest, I don't think that would be excessively overpowered.

 

Or make it once per encounter but weaker then the mage spell at low levels.

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Hmm, I'll test out if the recovery scales, then. It's too bad it doesn't show how much in the description.

 

 

Constant Recovery doesn't, or at least, it didn't didn't look like it did at level 12 ( I let it tick for the full duration to verify that it did have a duration in 2.0). It still ticked for 4 with ~20 might. So, it's weaker, rather than stronger, from where I'm standing. I didn't test it at levels 13+, tho.

Veteran Recovery doesn't scale either, it ticks for about 2 endurance even at level 14.

Edited by Njall
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